Werewolf vs Vampire Lord Transformation *potential spoilers*

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

Now this has been something I've been thinking about for a *long* time. Both have big advantages but today I had the question answered for me once and for all. Now keep in mind I'm talking purely about the combat effectiveness of the transformations. Not personal preference, convienience or usefulness in human form. The transformation, pure and simple.

This character I was using today isn't very old but I took them to see Karstaag. Arguably the most powerful enemy in the game. I got my ♥♥♥ handed to me but then I remembered the fact I'm a werewolf and this time I transformed straight after I summoned him. Long story short; I ragdolled him and made him my ♥♥♥♥♥. Karstaag.

Can a vampire lord kill Karstaag? Sure. But can it do it *that* easily and *that* quickly. No. Absolutely not. Thats why the werewolf transformation wins. Because you can make most enemies ragdoll or at the very least flinch with such speed that they don't stand a chance. Even Karstaag.

That being said I still might become a vampire purely for the necromage benefits (although I understand affected perks stay affected even after you lose the vampirism) but this really cleared it up for me. Werewolf > Vampire Lord.

[Southpawe]

I guess Wearwolf for pure carnage that you can't manually revert from, and Vampire Lord for less melee power but the ability to hover and teleport and cast magic from afar.

The ability to revert back anytime is the deciding factor for me.

[Tx12001]

Why dont you download Undeath and be a Lich instead.

Its much more powerful then a werewolf in gameplay and in the lore by FAR (And by far I mean a single Lich would beable to kill an entire pack of werewolves with ease as in he would win 9/10 times against a werewolf pack) And as a lich you will even have a 1 handed lighting storm spell which can deal upwards of 100 damage per second that can disntergrate legions of enemies at and once per day you will reappear in a safe location if your health ever drops to 0, your also able to fling giants off of cliffs like the vampire lord can.

Downside is the Lich form is slow moving and requires a long questline to obtain and requires yoo to be at least level 30 and have a maximun enchanting skill, you will have to perform a dark ritual which will result in your characters death and rebirth as an undead abomination, there is also no "Cure" and becoming a lich will remove your vampirism or lycanthropy.

[lupus_hegemonia]

I tried both... I hated both.
Eventually, they had disadvantages (more, than advantages).

Probably is how you're playing. I'm playing "slashing-hacking" character, not mage-like.

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

Originally posted by Tx12001:

Why dont you download Undeath and be a Lich instead.

Its much more powerful then a werewolf in gameplay and in the lore by FAR (And by far I mean a single Lich would beable to kill an entire pack of werewolves with ease as in he would win 9/10 times against a werewolf pack) And as a lich you will even have a 1 handed lighting storm spell which can deal upwards of 100 damage per second that can disntergrate legions of enemies at and once per day you will reappear in a safe location if your health ever drops to 0, your also able to fling giants off of cliffs like the vampire lord can.

Downside is the Lich form is slow moving and requires a long questline to obtain and requires yoo to be at least level 30 and have a maximun enchanting skill, you will have to perform a dark ritual which will result in your characters death and rebirth as an undead abomination, there is also no "Cure" and becoming a lich will remove your vampirism or lycanthropy.

I do appreciate how mods expand the game but for me it seems like a slippery slope. This Lich sounds abit overpowered even by transformation standards. That might be alright but ff you download that mod why not download other overpowered mods? At what point does it just become cheating? I don't really know so I try to avoid the issue altogether.

The only mod I've really considered downloading that wouldn't unbalance the game or break immersion is "Beyond Skyrim" when its finished. They really seem to know what they're doing. If theres any modders who would like to help them then you should definitely send them a message.

[Tx12001]

Because you have to work to get the Lich form and not get it for free like the VL or werewolf forms, the quest wont even start until you are level 30 and even then you can't become one until you have a 100 enchanting skill and enough magicka to cast the unbind soul spell which requires around 400 magicka which may see you at around level 40 or 50 by the time you are even able to do the lich ritual, besdies the 100 damage per second only applies if you have taken all the augmented shock related perks which are a part of the vannila game and to get those perks you need a relativly high destruction skill. your also not taking into condieration the weakness's that you gain from being a lich in the first place, the slow movement speed and low physical resistance of the lich form for example, sure your spells are powerful but they are slow casting and the time it takes to cast some of these spells the enemy may have already taken down half your health.

Also there is no such thing as cheating in a single player game, if something becomes top easy you just up the difficulty. or download a mod like Advanced Adversary Encounters which will improve enemies greatly.

And as for Beyond Skyrim, I am helping them as a Beta Tester.

[Midnight]

Werewolf knockdown spam is a well known cheese method that mods which improve Werewolf combat (like Moonlight Tales) actually attempt to balance by adding a cooldown to it.