About Bethesda story/quest writing

[Washell]

I just finished my first playthrough ever, and while my expectations for Bethesda writing aren't very high to start with, I still ended up disappointed. I struggle to remember the various quests and plotlines they used and all the major plotlines felt more like a mod done by a student for a graduation project than the full might of a AAA developer.

A couple of specific beefs:

Originally posted by College of Mages:

Constant hinting of what befell Winterhold
Constant references to the Psijic order
Unmeasurably powerful magic gets awakened
Ends with you being named Arch-Mage

Actual quests
Fetch some stuff, shoot some people, shoot at the ball, have monks come in and take away your toy, be Arch-mage and still have no clue at all about anything, in the space of 4 or 5 quick quests.

Originally posted by The civil war:

The country is torn apart by war, families torn apart, clans fighting clans!

Actual quests:
Do minor thing, capture fort
Do minor thing, capture fort
Do minor thing, capture fort
Do minor thing, capture Windhelm

Originally posted by Main plot:

Fetch horn
Find temple
Find shout
Kill Alduin
Find Alduin
Kill Alduin again

Everything reeks of grand ideas and instead of having balls, pick one or two and do the remainder in DLC later, they seem to have cut everything down to a bland easily completed state. Any exposition is delivered by stilted characters and barely animated faces, in faltering one or two line sentences (limitation of the engine/creation kit).

With the competition from games like The Witcher, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, from each of which I can remember countless lines of dialogue, plot twists, scenes and more, I'm led to the conclusion that I should stop buying and playing Bethesda games.

TL;DR: At the start of each plotline, Bethesda hints at greatness, and then completely fails to deliver across the board. And it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ me off.

[A Rock Seller]

I've got nothing to add here that I haven't said already. The story in this game is indeed cr*p as I've said before. All I'm here for is to see how many sheep will try to defend the game even on this front.

Fire away.

[SpeedFreak1972]

well lets be honest the most of us don't play the game for the story. However If you think this is bad don't try Fallout 4 ....

[Washell]

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

well lets be honest the most of us don't play the game for the story.

I played as a mage, which is a whole different story in terms of gameplay. I'll give sword and board a go at the end of the year when SKSE and such have been up and running for a while.

And like I said, my expectations weren't high to start with, I've played Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and FO3, I thought I knew what to expect in terms of writing.

[pedantic_roc]

I think you've just about summed things up, Washell. Started out with ideas of grandeur and never quite finished the job. Hell, they didn't even bother with dialogue conditions. e.g. As a Legate of the Legion, even after completing the rubbish Civil War quest, legionaires still refer to me as a civilian and Legate Rikke still orders me around and calls me Soldier. As a sheep I suspect the team, which admittedly isn't very creative as a whole, were simply not given enough time to flesh out and complete thier otherwise mediochre efforts - resulting in an unfinished game. Baa...

Edit: oops, mis-spelled Rikke.

[A Rock Seller]

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

well lets be honest the most of us don't play the game for the story. However If you think this is bad don't try Fallout 4 ....

And what do you play it for? The gameplay? Bah.

The story was the only thing left to save this game and it failed. People are always on about how this game is super immersive when in reality that can't be further from the truth. How is a game "immersive" at all when neither the story is in any way engaging nor is the gameplay such that allows a sense of urgency and danger? What am I getting immersed in here? A lucid dream? Why not just lucid dream instead?

The game is a failure on all fronts except music and to some extent scenery. So I guess in that sense I can understand what you meant. Although even then I'd ask you why you don't just look at some pretty pictures and listen to the soundtrack online. Still not worth actually launching much less buying the game.

[pedantic_roc]

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

well lets be honest the most of us don't play the game for the story. However If you think this is bad don't try Fallout 4 ....

I didn't really want to hear that, Speedy. It was bought for me as a present and my benefactor keeps asking me when am I going to stop playing Skyrim and actually play FO4 :-)

[SpeedFreak1972]

Originally posted by Velox Banks:

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

well lets be honest the most of us don't play the game for the story. However If you think this is bad don't try Fallout 4 ....

And what do you play it for? The gameplay? Bah.

The story was the only thing left to save this game and it failed. People are always on about how this game is super immersive when in reality that can't be further from the truth. How is a game "immersive" at all when neither the story is in any way engaging nor is the gameplay such that allows a sense of urgency and danger? What am I getting immersed in here? A lucid dream? Why not just lucid dream instead?

The game is a failure on all fronts except music and to some extent scenery. So I guess in that sense I can understand what you meant. Although even then I'd ask you why you don't just look at some pretty pictures and listen to the soundtrack online. Still not worth actually launching much less buying the game.

I play it with mods which makes the gameplay a lot better however I play it for the world.

[hawkeye]

Games are developed to make money. Content needs to be just good enough to sell. This game was primarily written for consoles that were on the market 10 years ago. On the pc the game had to fit in 2GB of memory and run on primitive cpu's and gpu's.

I have played Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3 and FONV and none of them have deep stories. Without ENB, SKSE and mods this game would have been forgotten about by now.

If there is anyone who should be inducted into a gaming hall of fame it's Boris Vorontsev. Who would have thought this guy would have developed ENB and had such an impact on gaming?
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Boris_Vorontsov-Velyaminov.jpg

[Goffender]

Ah shucks, guess I should quit now. Actually small decisions suit me better, FO4 has me stumped as to which faction to support. Sometimes I like the interactive story mode better than having to decide to fate of mankind. But that's just me, I'm a small timer. The game is keeping me entertained for now but if it's not enough for you, I get that. I'm sure Prey will be the same way, so you should probably avoid it too. It'll be soooo boring.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by Washell:

I just finished my first playthrough ever, and while my expectations for Bethesda writing aren't very high to start with, I still ended up disappointed. I struggle to remember the various quests and plotlines they used and all the major plotlines felt more like a mod done by a student for a graduation project than the full might of a AAA developer.

A couple of specific beefs:

Originally posted by College of Mages:

Constant hinting of what befell Winterhold
Constant references to the Psijic order
Unmeasurably powerful magic gets awakened
Ends with you being named Arch-Mage

Actual quests
Fetch some stuff, shoot some people, shoot at the ball, have monks come in and take away your toy, be Arch-mage and still have no clue at all about anything, in the space of 4 or 5 quick quests.

Psyjic Order is mentioned in most Elder Scrolls games, just this is the first time you see any, I think.

Originally posted by The civil war:

The country is torn apart by war, families torn apart, clans fighting clans!

Actual quests:
Do minor thing, capture fort
Do minor thing, capture fort
Do minor thing, capture fort
Do minor thing, capture Windhelm

Capturing the money is not a minor thing, it stops Ulfric bankrolling his campaigns, the crown of thorns isn't minor either, major PR victory there. But it could have been better

Originally posted by Main plot:

Fetch horn
Find temple
Find shout
Kill Alduin
Find Alduin
Kill Alduin again

Everything reeks of grand ideas and instead of having balls, pick one or two and do the remainder in DLC later, they seem to have cut everything down to a bland easily completed state. Any exposition is delivered by stilted characters and barely animated faces, in faltering one or two line sentences (limitation of the engine/creation kit).

With the competition from games like The Witcher, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, from each of which I can remember countless lines of dialogue, plot twists, scenes and more, I'm led to the conclusion that I should stop buying and playing Bethesda games.

TL;DR: At the start of each plotline, Bethesda hints at greatness, and then completely fails to deliver across the board. And it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ me off.

we all agree, although we think they needed to do more with everything rather than cut down, the guilds needed to be bigger and better, like in oblivion, the civil war needed more everything, but the main quest was ok, if uninspiring, it just need better portrayal.

[Goffender]

Originally posted by pedantic_roc:

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

well lets be honest the most of us don't play the game for the story. However If you think this is bad don't try Fallout 4 ....

I didn't really want to hear that, Speedy. It was bought for me as a present and my benefactor keeps asking me when am I going to stop playing Skyrim and actually play FO4 :-)

FO4 has deep story. How deep is subjective obviously. But I haven't finished it yet either, lol

[Omen]

That's why I play it for the gameplay, not the story

[A Rock Seller]

Originally posted by Frodzero:

That's why I play it for the gameplay, not the story

Then it should probably bother you that the gameplay is just as bad.

[Washell]

Originally posted by alexander_dougherty:

Psyjic Order is mentioned in most Elder Scrolls games, just this is the first time you see any, I think.

Which is why I got all excited. I was expecting a plotline where Magus wrecked Winterhold and the Psijic order failed, and now they're righting wrongs and you either help them or even get inducted into the order.

I read a fan theory later on where the orb's effects aren't anchored in time and caused the destruction of Winterhold, with the player being send back to witness it and/or right it. At which stage I can see why they cut it, because they'd have to build ruined Winterhold, past Winterhold and current (saved) Winterhold along with all the dialogue and quests. But, assuming that was the original plan, why cut it and leave the barebones in place? Just rewrite that Winterhold was destroyed by a tidal wave caused by the eruption of Red Mountain and write a new plot for the College of mages.

It's like the entire game is all pitch and no execution.

[A Rock Seller]

Originally posted by ~Ren~:

For me it's different, I'm not an RPG player usually so the open world exploring was new for me at the time and something I enjoyed. My games usually consist of small hallways and small rooms and either blowing it up or shooting it so this was a nice change.

The quests I think could have been done much better, the College of Wintherhold and The Companions are two quests that spring to mind, you're basically a newcomer to both and within a few quests you suddenly become the leader, not much thought went into those I think.

I like the freedom to explore and play how I want and that's why I continue to play and enjoy the game.

Open world exploring =/= RPG

Anything close to an RPG element in Skyrim is completely butchered. Thus the game doesn't even come close to being an actual RPG.