Stormcloaks or Imperials?

[DisneysHercules]

This thread has probably popped up a lot but I would just like to see everyones opinion on the matter as I am trying to pick a side.

Nearly every playthrough I have done I've sided with Imperials. Mainly because I usually play a non nord character. However I have recently started up a Nord warrior and I'm at a cross roads yet again.

See the Stormcloaks come across as very xenophobic but very patriotic, I can respect them wanting to kick out a foreign power that really has no business there but when playing as a race that isn't a nord I just couldn't bring myself to support them. The Thalmor have also committed a ton of horrific acts against Skyrim, so I see that point too.

But then there are the Imperials, I see them as trying to keep the Dominion from invading Skyrim and committing even more atrocities. Plus they're more accepting of other races.

Anyways, what is your opinion on the matter? Who did you side with and why?

[Mr. Whiskers]

phychosis の投稿を引用：

they say he is not on the list, so they know who are stormcloaks and who aren't

Or that you're not on the list of people who were expected to be with Ulfric at the ambush. It's unlikely that the Empire knows without a doubt who isn't a Stormcloak.

phychosis の投稿を引用：

The Thalmor are in Skyrim because the Empire sold out Talos and the Nords

The Thalmor are in Skyrim because Ulfric made a bunch of noise about Talos worship being allowed, which the Thalmor then used as an excuse to send their agents into the province.

phychosis の投稿を引用：

just like they did the Redguards to save themselves.

"Themselves" here meaning the Empire and the no longer Imperial Hammerfell?

phychosis の投稿を引用：

And at the beginning of the game Skyrim is split in two with half of it belonging to the Empire, half belonging to the Nords under the stormcloak banner, and Whiterun being a free city who hasn't picked a side in the war,

No, at the start of the game all of Skyrim belongs to the Empire and portions of it are in rebellion.

phychosis の投稿を引用：

so at the point where Heimskr was in the streets worshiping Talos Whiterun was not a part of the Empire or the Stormcloaks it hadn't yet picked a side in the war.

Whiterun is part of the Empire unless the Stormcloaks win the war.

phychosis の投稿を引用：

And if Skyrim is suppose to be part of the Empire at the beginning of the game why does the player get arrested for crossing the border from one part of the Empire to another. He gets arrested for crossing from Cyrodiil into the Rift which at that point in the game belongs to the Stormcloaks and is no longer a part of the Empire.

Well, Pale Pass, the closest and thus most likely entry point to have been used by the PC, is a closed entry. So that's a no-no right there. Add to it that the Empire is amassing forces around that entry point and the PC apparently made no attempt to announce themselves before passing the army and entering through the closed entry, and it looks even worse. Add onto that that after the PC avoids the army and crosses they walk to an ambush set up for Ulfric and his followers, and it's easy to see why your crossing is viewed negatively.

[NemoTheEight]

NotCYF の投稿を引用：

(Don't read further if you mind spoilers from a 6 year old game).



Imperials, by far. Because even if you forget that Ulfric is a tool of the Thalmor(read the books during the main quest), and they're just blatantly racist("skyrim belongs to the nords"), you basically make the evil Thalmor win Skyrim. As Hadvar says: Unless Skyrim(or even Tamriel, in parts where the Imperials rule) stands together, there's no way we'll ever be able to beat the Thalmor.

Skyrim alone wouldn't be able to beat the Thalmor, the Imperials would be able to.
To argue with my own reasoning: Somehow i feel like the Imperials don't give a damn about Skyrim enough, or they'd still be in war with the Thalmor, that whole peace treaty was like a big "♥♥♥♥ you" to Skyrim.

Are you aware that "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" means that Nords want to be independent rather thatn tthat they want to slaughter all non-Nords? And Thalmors probably support both sides or Imperials pact with them? If I remember right Thalmor helped Imperials during meeting in High Hrothgar.
And beating Thalmor doesn't require lack of independency. Poland won II WW on same side as USA, Great Britain, France... They wasn't one country, but few fighting together.

[SEXO MORTAL]

I used to join stormcloaks but now I prefer imperials. They are attempting to bring civilization and great stuff to skyrim, it will be a benefit for all. However, as most players, I despise the Thalmor. When you think about it, there's no reason why stormcloaks dislike the imperials except for thamlor's prohibition of Talos in religion (then there's probably some stormcloaks that are just plain xenophobes and use the talos thing as an excuse, but thats another thing).

So, I join Imperials, but I hunt thalmor as an agent of dark brootherhood (le roleplay). Then I install the Become high king of Skyrim mod, I become a vampire at dawnguard DLC and use my vampire seduction to gain followers (more le roleplay that doesn't happen in game), run for democratically chosen king, and become the first khajiit king of Skyrim.

After that I will keep hunting thalmor and kicking them out with the help of the empire. These fuks tricked my khajiit brothers into believing they saved our sacred moons (see: lore) (plus too much made up story I'm making)

[NecroMaster]

Ranz の投稿を引用：

I used to join stormcloaks but now I prefer imperials. They are attempting to bring civilization and great stuff to skyrim, it will be a benefit for all. However, as most players, I despise the Thalmor. When you think about it, there's no reason why stormcloaks dislike the imperials except for thamlor's prohibition of Talos in religion (then there's probably some stormcloaks that are just plain xenophobes and use the talos thing as an excuse, but thats another thing).

So, I join Imperials, but I hunt thalmor as an agent of dark brootherhood (le roleplay). Then I install the Become high king of Skyrim mod, I become a vampire at dawnguard DLC and use my vampire seduction to gain followers (more le roleplay that doesn't happen in game), run for democratically chosen king, and become the first khajiit king of Skyrim.

After that I will keep hunting thalmor and kicking them out with the help of the empire. These fuks tricked my khajiit brothers into believing they saved our sacred moons (see: lore) (plus too much made up story I'm making)

I just did my first playthrough and wound up winning the war for the storm cloaks.
I kind of wonder if what i did was right. Despite ulfric naming me a war hero on numerous occasions i still get some pretty racist crap from stormcloak troops because im an elf.

[Mr. Whiskers]

Wilson the Gentleman Scientist. の投稿を引用：

I just did my first playthrough and wound up winning the war for the storm cloaks.
I kind of wonder if what i did was right. Despite ulfric naming me a war hero on numerous occasions i still get some pretty racist crap from stormcloak troops because im an elf.

If it makes you feel better, the Stormcloaks are, in reality, working towards High Elf rule in Tamriel.

[Obz3hL33t]

Mr. Whiskers の投稿を引用：

... trite false equivalency ...

It's not working, by the by.

Most people understand WWII, making it a convenient culturally-accessible reference. Godwin's Law of course exists for a reason, but in this case religious genocide within a Vichy government is almost exactly like Nazi behavior in occupied territory.

But never mind the ongoing genocide, Stormcloaks are morally flawed! Off with their heads!

Your test of moral purity is nonsensical and hypocritical: if moral purity is a prerequisite to supporting a political cause you can no more support the Imperials under that standard than I could the Stormcloaks.

For that matter you probably fall short of your own standards of perfection yourself, and if you believed you were perfect I'd refer you to the Khmer Rouge -- or any other group of political purity fanatics convinced of their own infallibility -- as a cautionary tale, not that it would matter.

People who think in absolutes always imagine those who do not either as "tools" or "morons" for not seeing the Pure Truth or as sinister propagandists leading the weak-minded to question their faith. In the course of this discussion you've managed to assert that I am both -- in the name of a fictional faction in a fictional story.

I can't be the first to have exposed you to the idea that the vast majority of moral conflicts come in shades of gray. Like you said, "It's not working."

[kobe bryants helicoper pilot]

Obz3hL33t の投稿を引用：

Mr. Whiskers の投稿を引用：

... trite false equivalency ...

It's not working, by the by.

Most people understand WWII, making it a convenient culturally-accessible reference. Godwin's Law of course exists for a reason, but in this case religious genocide within a Vichy government is almost exactly like Nazi behavior in occupied territory.

But never mind the ongoing genocide, Stormcloaks are morally flawed! Off with their heads!

Your test of moral purity is nonsensical and hypocritical: if moral purity is a prerequisite to supporting a political cause you can no more support the Imperials under that standard than I could the Stormcloaks.

For that matter you probably fall short of your own standards of perfection yourself, and if you believed you were perfect I'd refer you to the Khmer Rouge -- or any other group of political purity fanatics convinced of their own infallibility -- as a cautionary tale, not that it would matter.

People who think in absolutes always imagine those who do not either as "tools" or "morons" for not seeing the Pure Truth or as sinister propagandists leading the weak-minded to question their faith. In the course of this discussion you've managed to assert that I am both -- in the name of a fictional faction in a fictional story.

I can't be the first to have exposed you to the idea that the vast majority of moral conflicts come in shades of gray. Like you said, "It's not working."

i think someone made a good arguement and whiskers will be mad

[Mr. Whiskers]

FaZe Doge {PWBD} 8=D の投稿を引用：

Obz3hL33t の投稿を引用：

Most people understand WWII, making it a convenient culturally-accessible reference. Godwin's Law of course exists for a reason, but in this case religious genocide within a Vichy government is almost exactly like Nazi behavior in occupied territory.

But never mind the ongoing genocide, Stormcloaks are morally flawed! Off with their heads!

Your test of moral purity is nonsensical and hypocritical: if moral purity is a prerequisite to supporting a political cause you can no more support the Imperials under that standard than I could the Stormcloaks.

For that matter you probably fall short of your own standards of perfection yourself, and if you believed you were perfect I'd refer you to the Khmer Rouge -- or any other group of political purity fanatics convinced of their own infallibility -- as a cautionary tale, not that it would matter.

People who think in absolutes always imagine those who do not either as "tools" or "morons" for not seeing the Pure Truth or as sinister propagandists leading the weak-minded to question their faith. In the course of this discussion you've managed to assert that I am both -- in the name of a fictional faction in a fictional story.

I can't be the first to have exposed you to the idea that the vast majority of moral conflicts come in shades of gray. Like you said, "It's not working."

i think someone made a good arguement and whiskers will be mad

No anger here. Just disappointment. If only they had put all that effort into a post that was actually making a relevant argument. Obz seems to be arguing at someone else and quoting me by mistake. At least I hope that's what's happening.

[Unexpected]

in my honest opinion, i don't support either side, the empire is too big and politically unstable, they had a crisis just because uriel died without any legitimate sons, so dagon took advantage of the chaos.

the stormcloaks have a xenophobic nationalism that isn't really good for any race, even nords who want argonian or breton friends

[Straybow]

The bonds between the humans have been shattered and Mer will reclaim the rightful place as the unquestionable superior beings of Tamriel. Let them rip each other apart with this petty nonsense.

[Spiders]

I personally don't fully support or condem either faction. The Stormcloaks want independence from the Empire out of Skyrim because they submitted to the Thalmor. This seems like an admirable goal, as they view the Empire as unfit to rule the warrior-folk of Skyrim. Furthermore, most fight for their religeous freedom, which, even though I'm not a very religeous person, fully support with every fiber of my being. No one should have the right to tell others what they can and can't believe. However, they're ruled by a racist xenophobic Jarl who foolishly believes that they could eventually take on the Empire AND the Thalmor when the Empire couldn't fight them at full power. The Imperials, on the other hand, want to keep Skyrim part of the Empire because they simply can't afford to lose another province from their Empire (for those who don't know, Hammerfell is independent from the Empire and is at war with the Thalmor). However, by doing so, they take away the religeous freedom that is the right of all races and allow the Thalmor into Skyrim to continue to kidnap and torture citizens because they MIGHT be worshipping a banned God. If you want to talk about who rightly claims the throne, Elisif would have a claim to the throne IF Ulfric didn't formally challenge Toryg and have him accept. Because of this, even though the fight was unfairly balanced in Ulfrics favor with his Voice, Ulfric has the legitimate claim to the throne of Skyrim. If it were possible in-game, I'd give Ulfric the crown, then challenge him for it because the Dragonborn would, in most cases, make a better ruler than either Elisif or Ulfric. Anyway, in my opinion, if you want to support either, you need to choose Religon and Racism or Unity and Oppression.

Also, in response to the other guys who keep saying that each race should stay in their own land, that's literally not possible if you want an Empire at all. Or any kind of trade or prosperity.