Is it possible for 2 Dragonborn's to be alive at the same time?

[Ares]

I was just curious if anyone knows or if there are theories of multiple dragonborn alive at one time, instead of there just being 1 each era.

[BADSPistawful]

no my dude one at a time

[Necromia]

The Septims were a family of dragonborns. Though they didnt have the abilities the last dragonborn had. Mankar Camoran was speculated of being dragonborn during the times of oblivion like the Septims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2KQiLxdDY

As far as dragonborn with abilities to utilize shouts the first dragonborn and the last are the only ones we know of. Arngeir mentions that dragonborn are only sent during times of great need. I'm guessing he means dragonborn with the abilities to use shouts. Miraak was ignored when the last dragonborn came since he was in another plane.

I doubt two dragonborn with shouting abilities were around at the same time unless the circumstances were big like with Miraak and the last dragonborn.

[Docsprock]

During the Oblivion crisis, Uriel Septim, the Emperor, was obviously Dragonborn, as well as Martin, his grown son. It has never been mentioned whether his other 3 sons were Dragonborn, but I would suppose so. That would make 5 Dragonborn alive at the same time.

There is an in-game book that theorizes the same subject, but the title eludes me.

Being Dragonborn and Shouting are mutually exclusive.

[jancawa55]

Miraak and you

[markdb92]

not all dragonborns know they are dragonborns ie your char didnt know until it happened. The dragon borns before your char that knew they were one did not really go out of thier way to learn the shouts as their was no real dragon threat as they hanged out in areas were mortals didnt really go.

[Frondson]

I would guess that it's very possible and the only reason there are not more Dragonborns going about and shouting is that they need dragon souls to power their shouts. And since dragons were extinct until the events of Skyrim no one else was shouting.

[markdb92]

dragon souls just make it easier to learn the shouts but you can still learn shouts without the souls by studying the meaning of each world of power ie the souls are just a short cut.

[ayrtep]

I think that there are lots of potential Dragonborns, its just they never get to find out.

Think of it as some kind of rare recessive gene, loose in the population, who's trait lies dormant until the right conditions arrive; like a dragon dying nearby.

[arcasor]

According to the Elder Scrolls wiki Miraak is a Dragonborn (the first known Dragonborn, actually); even Arngeir tells you that you are the only Dragonborn who has been revealed thus far, implying that there may be others around.

[SpeedFreak1972]

even you, the player, doesn't know in the beginning only after a certain event you learn you're Dragonborn.

[gnewna]

Originally posted by Docsprock:

Being Dragonborn and Shouting are mutually exclusive.

It's early, so possibly I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at, but they're not (obviously, the player and Miraak are 100% definitely both Dragonborn and able to Shout and other known Dragonborn in the past appear to be), what they are is not necessarily proven to always be found in the same person, I think.

As I understand it (and I am happy to be corrected by those with a better grasp on this part of the lore, preferably with in-game sources rather than fanon/semi-canon of the Michael Kirkbride post-leaving Bethesda variety), the first known-historically (as in, nobody in the 3rd/4th Eras (the time covered by the main games) really knew about Miraak until TLDB gets a party invitation to Solstheim) Dragonborn was St Alessia.

I can't find any reference to her Shouting, but she was given the Dragon Blood and the Amulet of Kings (which can only be worn by "one of the Dragon Blood" as a blessing directly from Akatosh. From what I understand, the Dragon Blood is not (necessarily) a genetic lineage thing - it's not DNA. It's still a blessing directly from Akatosh. Hence Tiber Septim being a Dragon Blooded Emperor even though, as per the Book of the Dragonborn he has "no known hereditary connection between Tiber Septim and any of the previous Dragonborn rulers of Tamriel."

As the Whiterun Guard who speaks to you after the battle of the Western Watchtower says, "in the very oldest tales, back from when there were still dragons in Skyrim, the Dragonborn would slay dragons and take their power." Although obviously this is the stuff of legend, given there are at least two in-game definitely for realsies examples of this being the case, it's fair to assume that there's a decent amount of truth to it (though probably some individual heroes got described as doing all that shouty stuff even if they didn't). I think there are other references to this, too.

I think the next known example of A Dragonborn (that I can remember/find having just woken out) is Reman Cyrodiil. Although I can't find any *explicit* reference to him killing dragons and absorbing their souls, The Rise and Fall of the Blades describes Akaviri warriors of the Dragonguard travelling south through Skyrim where they encountered dragons, and "were stopped by Reman Cyrodiil during the battle at Pale Pass" (which is the pass through the mountains between Skyrim and Cyrodiil), after the battle they heard "the voice of Reman Cyrodiil, knelt and swore their lives to him, their conqueror and savior." As in, he was Shouting.

Then there's Tiber Septim, who wore the Amulet of Kings and thus was indesputably Dragonborn in the sense of 'having the Dragon Blood' (there seems to be some inconsistency on whether this sense always means 'able to absorb dragon souls and learn shouts', and even the Book of the DB kinda shrugs and says 'who knows?'). We do, though, have references to him Shouting, and he trained with the Greybeards. Possibly this was the regular mortal training the Greybeards go through, and that enabled Ulfric to learn, what, one whole shout in a decade or so of training? But my guess is it was closer to how the player learns from Borri and Wulfgar - being 'gifted with the knowledge' - possibly there were rather more Greybeards in those days. Certainly there's reference to them having "removed their gags and spoke his name, causing the World to shake." It's established in Skyrim that this would be impossible for a non-Dragonborn to be able to withstand.

On the other hand, there's zero evidence of the later Septims ever Shouting, as far as I know. Martin literaly mantles Akatosh/turns into a gigantic glowing golden dragon but he doesn't Shout. But they were Dragonborn, and presumably could have learned from the Greybeards if they'd wanted to, though they didn't have any more conquering to do, so didn't really need to bother, I guess. (Possibly the Greybeards weren't too keen to help them, after Tiber Septim's methods...)

[gnewna]

But yeah, anyway, basically, being Dragonborn is a gift from Akatosh, and presumably (although generally the Divines don't have much power on Nirn any more) Akatosh could make more than one if necessary (such as if the player character turns evil, shame there's no in-game event where if you do too much bad stuffs you get challenged by a goody two-shoes Dragonborn, really, could have a corresponding one where if you do lots of good stuffs you get to go and hunt down a bad, evil DB.)

What *is* quite interesting is that, St Alessia and Reman Cyrodiil were both, well, Cyrods, and the later Septims (who were actually not direct descendants - Pelagius Septim had no children so was succeeded by his cousin on Tiber's brother's side, apparently) were Imperials (probably Septim and his brother both married local girls in Cyrodiil...) and yet it's almost exclusively seen as a "Nord thing". The Dragon Cult seems to have been mostly in Skyrim, too, which is probably relevant. Done a bit more reading and I forgot the key thing - Kyne/Kynareth. During the Dragon War she bestowed the Thu'um on Men (or possibly mortals more generally) and all that.

So presumably of those Men who had it bestowed on them, some were Dragonborn/Dragonblooded, and could learn Shouts without training, whereas others needed to train? Not sure, too much reading so early in the day...

[Docsprock]

Originally posted by gnewna:

Originally posted by Docsprock:

Being Dragonborn and Shouting are mutually exclusive.

Being Dragonborn is not required to learn the Thuum, and Shouting is not a requirement of those with the dragons blood.

As you stated, there could, theoretically, be many persons in Tamriel with dragons blood, and perhaps it is only these that are able to learn the Thuum. So Ulfic could be a Dragonborn, but it would be unknown to everyone. We all know about Emperors and their dallyances.

Maybe.

[gnewna]

Yes, I was just confused by 'mutually exclusive' because I think that means 'you can't be both'?

Again, though, 'dragon blood' doesn't mean anything to do with lineage (being descended from Alessia, or any of the people who became Talos, or Reman Cyrodiil, etc) at least in terms of being Dovahkiin like the player is, it means given that blessing by Akatosh.

Anyone can learn the Thu'um, though, with enough practice (well, for some value of 'anyone' - might mean all Men (humans/human males specifically), might mean all Mortals (any playable race or similar - so not dremora, say, but the ancient Falmer might have been eligible, say), might mean specifically Nords.) The Greybeards are just regular blokes, no special blessings.

As far as we know, Ulfric isn't Dragonborn, because the Greybeards would proooooooobably have picked up on that (and I reckon Paarthurnax definitely would have known if there was one of the Dovah Sos in the near vicinity.)

[Delta 1038]

And if you're talking about the Last Dragonborn, well...

The prophecy only stated that the Last Dragonborn will defeat Alduin. It never said that YOU were playing the Last Dragonborn, so the guards chatter of them being Dragonborn does carry some grain of truth... and that's before getting in on that guy in Solstheim.