Controls in this game vs Steep

[LadyErica]

I've finally managed to try the Steep beta, and I can easily say Infinite Air has a lot to learn from it. While I do enjoy Infinite Air quite a bit, I find the controls really, really bad. I mean, I can't even do a simple flip. It's basic stuff, and I can't do it. I know there are a ton of excuses why it's so difficult to do, but to my defense, it all comes down to one thing: Realistic controls for the sake of realism isn't fun. This is a game, and games should be fun.

So I tried the Steep beta, and while I hated a lot of the tutorial stuff (wingsuit is a major pain...), it took me five seconds to learn how to flip and grab. The sad part is flipping in Steep feels very similar to flipping in Infinite Air, just with a key difference. In IA, you need to charge the jump and flip, then let go at the lip of the jump-platform and hope for the best. In Steep, you still charge the jump, but when you reach the end of the jump-platform, you release the jump button. After that, simply move the left stick to flip or roll. That's it. Charge, jump, flip. Couldn't be simpler.

And that's really all there is too it. In IA, I've tried over and over and over to learn how to flip or roll, and I can't do it. In Steep, it took me a few seconds to learn it, and the controls are nearly identical. Nearly.

So again, realism for the same of realism isn't fun. Making controls that are easy to learn and even easier to use makes the game itself a lot more fun. Isn't that what really matters?

[frozen]

Sound like you never heard about Shaun White Snowboarding

[diabLo-Designz]

Whats so hard about pushing the right stick to the right and then press one of the triggers(for a roll to the righ)? Slow flip, quick press. Fast flip, long press.
Instead of pressing one of the Triggers, let go, press again one of the Triggers+left stick down and just let go somewhen. It levels from alone anyway if you arent too near to the ground(if you are high enough it even flips further when its safe). Thats how you make a flip to the right in Steep.

The controls feel so basic...dunno what you mean that they are similar? The Trigger Buttons in IA arent for jumping, they are for precharging Spins/Flips. You jump with a flick on the right stick(ok, or press both triggers). Or you can flick the right stick for an olli and then flick the left stick(in different directions) to make flips/spins.

And grinding...how do you control grinds in Steep

And im not sure if you know the game Skate? You know what happend when you let go of the buttons in a flip before you leveled again? You bailed. Still fun game.


Im with you that the flips are hard, quite a bit too hard but saying Steep has the better controls is like...a big slap into the face from HB Studios. Ubisoft does many things right with Steep but the controls arent one of the things . Like the multiplayer features, the graphics, the customizing. But still, the driving is twitchy AF and the tricksystem boring AF. You dont even know what you just did for a trick.

[c0Zm1c]

I don't understand your argument. There are a lot of simulations that put realism before instant gratification and are not criticised for it. Infinite Air shouldn't be treated any differently.

It is being treated differently, I think, because it doesn't really have a precedent (not that I'm aware of anyway). People are looking for SSX or other snowboarding games in this when it's not trying to be those game (I'll add that a lot of people are also looking for SSX in Steep to, which also doesn't make sense). Really, while the game does have its problems (limited feature set and over-reliance on user made content, in my opinion), the develoeprs should be praised for the boldness in direction.

The fun is in learning the controls and seeing what you can do once you begin nailing it. It may sound like an excuse but it is indeed a valid one. If you don't find that fun then the game just isn't for you.

Steep is okay, but games like Amped and Stoked did that kind of semi-realism better I think.

[LadyErica]

Originally posted by playeracb:

Sound like you never heard about Shaun White Snowboarding

Heard about it, never played it. It's not relevant for this discussion, though.

Originally posted by c0Zm1c:

I don't understand your argument. There are a lot of simulations that put realism before instant gratification and are not criticised for it. Infinite Air shouldn't be treated any differently.

I tried one of those NBA-games on PS4 a few months ago, and was shocked how horrible it was. I'm from the old era with the Commodore 64 and Amiga, and I'm used to games where you press a button to shoot. In NBA, you need almost as many different combinations of buttons and stick-movement as a fighting game to even pass to another player. I got through the tutorial with some effort, but once I tried a real match, I didn't remember a third of the essential controls. Even worse, I still don't understand why I had to learn so much just to play the game. All I need is one button to pass to another player, one button to shoot and one button to jump. That's it. It does everything I want to do, and it's so easy even my grandmother can figure it out.

That's what I mean with realism for the sake of realism. I don't find that fun at all. Or take UFC, a game I found in the bargain bin and bought mainly because I collect games. In just about every way imaginable, it's yet another fighter. Two fighters, one arena. The main difference from "normal" fighting games these days is that it's in 3D, so we can move around in the arena. But even this has been done before with great success. However, in games like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Dead or Alive and so on, we (usually) have one button for a light punch, one for light kick, one for hard punch and so on. Some have one button for each hand, and one for each foot.

UFC, though? I barely even remember the controls, but it was something like push a button, twirl the stick in a semi-circle and push yet another button for a simple grab. Then you do a much longer and more complicated combination to hurt the opponent, or to throw him to the ground. You would think you could then mash a button repeatedly to keep punching, but nope. You have to keep pressing button combinations to stay on top of your opponent too.

And again, that's my problem with Infinite Air. I've played a lot of snowboarding games, and they all have very simple controls. Even Steep. As I said, it's very similar to Infinite Air in most ways. The biggest difference is that in Steep, all you have to do is flip the left stick to, uh, flip or roll. That's it. Couldn't be simpler. In Infinite Air, you need to charge up everything first, then release at the exact moment to be able to do anything. And even when you do flip or roll, it's not *you* who does it. It's the game telling you that you released at the right moment.

Another issue with this is the landing. In Steep, it's not a problem to flip and roll all you want, but you need to time it well to be able to land correctly. This is easiest by simply stopping the flip in midair. In Infinite Air, it's not that simple. You pretty much roll and flip until you land, and there isn't much you can do about it. And even if you do a successful flip, you can't simply stop it and go into a roll. It's do or don't.

The fun is in learning the controls and seeing what you can do once you begin nailing it.

I strongly disagree. I've always prefered the "easy to learn, hard to master" types of games. They should be so simple to pick up and play that my grandmother can do it, but also deep enough that you can sit for months trying to be really good at it. A good example here is Guitar Hero or Rock Band. On Easy Mode, all you have to worry about are three buttons. That's it. (well, that, and the strumming obviously.) Couldn't be easier. On Expert Mode, you have five buttons, but also techniques like hammer-on's and pull-off's, tapping, multi-button notes and so on, and there are a lot more notes to deal with. They also move a lot faster, giving you even less room for error. So while easy mode is "grandma mode", expert mode are for experts. That makes the game so easy to pick up that anyone can enjoy it, but it's also so difficult that anyone will struggle with it. Win-win. :-)

Infinite Air, though? You either learn the controls, or you don't. Once you've learned them, there isn't much more to learn. Hard to learn, easy to master. Which is the exact opposite of what I think a game should do.

And once again, all I want is learning a bit from Steep and making the controls more intuitive. I'm not saying they should scrap the current control scheme, but maybe give us an alternative?

[c0Zm1c]

Originally posted by LadyErica:

The fun is in learning the controls and seeing what you can do once you begin nailing it.

I strongly disagree.

You strongly disagree because you don't find it fun, where as I and others do. Again, it's just not a game for you.

Should other simulation developers make changes/additions to their games because they're not as 'pick up and play' to get into as easier arcade equivalents? No.

Just play Steep instead if it's more your thing.

[diabLo-Designz]

Why do you play in hardcore mode when you want to play in easy mode? Just dont flip. End. There you got it, easy mode ;). Im from "that era" too. Guess most from us are. You compare Infinite Air to some Arcade games. Thats just completely wrong and i guess its somewhat your fault that you thought it would be that easy to pick up.

Sorry, but it just hears like you want it as easy as it goes. The controls arent intuitive because you dont know them. Just...learn them?

The problem i have with threads like this is because i saw exactly the same threads and talks as Skate came out. I hated the controls at first, as a THPS and co veteran it just feeld...weird. But as i got out how to play it it was just epic. Same goes for IA(beside the flips of course).

Or you wrote UFC or NBA arent good because they use too much buttons and are too complex. Like "wtf". All that games are more or less Simulations of specific sports. They NEED to be complex. Do you remember SmackDown on PS1? The big Tekken time. It has today still similar controls but got more complex of course, was just not possible before.

Hey! Skate 3 had an easy mode. But you know what? If you let lose from a flip too early you still bailed

Maybe the game isnt for you, i dont know.

Originally posted by LadyErica:

Infinite Air, though? You either learn the controls, or you don't. Once you've learned them, there isn't much more to learn. Hard to learn, easy to master. Which is the exact opposite of what I think a game should do.

The game isnt easy to master. Haha, far from that. Its not hard to learn either. You just want to be a master from hour 0 like in Steep and other arcade games.


Its all about preferences and this game(and most likely all Simulator games) just arent something for you. I bought Steep too, maybe we see us there on the mountain

[c0Zm1c]

The controls do begin to feel quite natural after a while but I have to admit, I don't think I will ever master this game truly. I just don't have the skill for it.

But I wouldn't want the developers to make changes/additions because of that. I would be annoyed if they did because it would betray the direction they went in with the game in the first place.

Again, they deserve praise for being bold enough to make a snowboarding game like this (and not just emulate Amped or SSX). Unfortunately (though unsurprisingly) it doesn't look like it will be influential enough to inspire other developers/publishers to try their hand at more realistic snowboarding games, but I do hope we see a Mark McMorris Infinite Air 2 at some point.

I'm not saying that because of any preference either (SSX 3 remains my favourite snowboarding game). It's just different, and diversity is a good thing.

[Visuwyg]

Originally posted by LadyErica:

In Steep, you still charge the jump, but when you reach the end of the jump-platform, you release the jump button. After that, simply move the left stick to flip or roll. That's it. Charge, jump, flip. Couldn't be simpler.

You can do that in IA as well, pop an ollie and immediately snap back the left stick to flip.

I agree though that IA's control scheme is at times overly complex. Several moves could surely be simplified without compromising control and finesse. I have gotten used to it, but it is obviously a big hurdle for new players.

[KekecVsRožle]

played steep beta and i can say except for graphics and ambient (hands down for Steep) but the gameplay is bad, arcade no rails same tricks for skiing and snowboarding etc... it is fun tho dont get me wrong but its all what you like more easy fun or maybe harder even more rewarding gameplay after you get to know the controls...But one major minus with Infinite air is that my controls just dont respond every time one day it works fine next day its unplayable the game just doesnt recognize the triggers when it should but still i would vote for Infinite Air if i had to choose Y.

[Visuwyg]

Originally posted by KEKECvsROŽLE:

But one major minus with Infinite air is that my controls just dont respond every time

I feel there is a bug. I never had the controls bug out, but I read about this multiple times on here. Are you using a third party controller?

[LadyErica]

Sigh... I give up. All I want is an OPTIONAL control scheme that's easy to learn, and all I get in return is post after post after post defending the game like your life depends on it. More options will make the game better, not worse. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Shooter McGavin]

I also played the Steep beta this weekend and it's pretty much an 'apples to oranges' comparison with IA. Steep looks great, there's lots to do (i.e. wings suits, para-gliding, skiing), but my focus was on the snowboarding. IF you are looking for a dedicated snowboarding game it's IA for me all the way, hands down... Not just because I'm a dev, but because I love the freedom of control that IA gives you over a game like Steep. When I fired up Steep and got my snowboard on I immediately tried to butter into an ollie... Nope. No dice. Carving also felt very rigid and "point and shoot"... not the flowing carves you get with IA. Once I was popping ollies I was trying to do some shifties and snappy 180's 360's, etc. Nope. No dice again. There's just a level of control that I want out of my boarder that Steep doesn't give you. I found myself very frustrated with that lack of control after being so used to almost 100% freedom you get in IA. As you mentioned though, LadyE, the flip mechanic was definitely more accessible right off the bat than in IA but since I've played IA so much I'm at the point where I've got my off-axis spins fairly dialed in... So although I learned them faster in Steep I didn't really find them 'easier' than IA (again, only because I've got the hours put into IA controls). And getting back to how much control you have when you're in the air, IA allows me to move my body (extend or compress) and my board (tweaked in any direction I wish), whereas I felt I was fairly constrained once I was in the air in Steep. Long story short, with Steep I felt it was great for racing down the mountain, finding some nice hits to trick off and enjoying the scenery along the way... and of course the wing suits and para-gliding (but not the point here). But with IA I'm addicted to the freedom of control you have... nose-press butter to shifty to blunt slide on a rail to 240 off. Lazy 360 melon tweaked out in a couple different directions while floating through the air. And the list goes on...

So, while IA will take a bit more of a time investment to learn it's well worth it to have the freedom of control that it gives you. Steep will be easier to pick up but you might end up feeling a little more restricted in what you can do. To each their own... both are good games and are certainly targeted towards slightly different audiences.

[TitanAz]

Originally posted by LadyErica:

I've finally managed to try the Steep beta, and I can easily say Infinite Air has a lot to learn from it. While I do enjoy Infinite Air quite a bit, I find the controls really, really bad. I mean, I can't even do a simple flip. It's basic stuff, and I can't do it. I know there are a ton of excuses why it's so difficult to do, but to my defense, it all comes down to one thing: Realistic controls for the sake of realism isn't fun. This is a game, and games should be fun.

So I tried the Steep beta, and while I hated a lot of the tutorial stuff (wingsuit is a major pain...), it took me five seconds to learn how to flip and grab. The sad part is flipping in Steep feels very similar to flipping in Infinite Air, just with a key difference. In IA, you need to charge the jump and flip, then let go at the lip of the jump-platform and hope for the best. In Steep, you still charge the jump, but when you reach the end of the jump-platform, you release the jump button. After that, simply move the left stick to flip or roll. That's it. Charge, jump, flip. Couldn't be simpler.

And that's really all there is too it. In IA, I've tried over and over and over to learn how to flip or roll, and I can't do it. In Steep, it took me a few seconds to learn it, and the controls are nearly identical. Nearly.

So again, realism for the same of realism isn't fun. Making controls that are easy to learn and even easier to use makes the game itself a lot more fun. Isn't that what really matters?

Originally posted by LadyErica:

Sigh... I give up. All I want is an OPTIONAL control scheme that's easy to learn, and all I get in return is post after post after post defending the game like your life depends on it. More options will make the game better, not worse. Why is that so hard to understand?

I think you've answered your own question, with which game you want to be playing. From what you said. You are an "arcade control style" player.. This is not that. I was hoping for IA type of controls in steep since my favourite game was "STOKED big air" and was hoping to get the same deal. I was disappointed.. Infinite Air gave me what I wanted and love this game.. Infinite air 2 NEEDS to happen. And I wouldn't touch the control style just enhance onn it.

Steep is a great game in its own rights but it isn't a True snowboarding game. Its a Polished winter/extreme sports game. I only come back for the wingsuits these days. Missing the ability to hit rails is a big negative point. That is one of the pillars of skating/skiing/snowboarding with park riding. imagine you couldn't grind in SKATE. Exactly.

The grabs/flips/grinds they are all how they would be IRL for the most part. I've almost bailed a few times doing double/triple cork and remembered, letting go and grabbing the board again making the player compress, will let me get the inch of rotation further I need and ends up so satisfying when it works and you STOMPTHEGODAMNS***OUTOFIT!!!!. sorry I got excited there a bit this is honestly one of the coolest games I've played in a while. Control wise. Also natural kickers you find going down from the peak. Just... Cray Cray.. *please don't change that one bit*. For a unity game I'm really impressed. Looks like mechanim in unity is killing it. 😜

Great work devs really..

Again.. If this isn't what you want in controls. steep is Def more for you.. Nothing wrong with that.. Each to their own.

P.s. Would you guys consider modding tool possibilities or making it more open. Since we won't see another games for a year or two.. Just saying

[Shooter McGavin]

Well said, TitanAZ. We want a IA2 to happen so bad because there's so much more we want to do to improve the experience... like you said, "I wouldn't touch the control style just enhance on it"... and that's exactly what we want to do! IA is a solid foundation to build on we just need to get recognized since we don't have the luxury of large marketing budgets and depend a lot on you guys (the community) to help spread the word about IA! The potential for this game is *ahem* infinite! ;) Glad to hear you're enjoying it! There's been a bunch of new user created parks that have been surfacing the past few weeks and they're freaking amazing!! So many lines to try and shred... again.... infinite..... :)

[[UTOPIA] Shnoob]

Hey Dev guy, big up for the sick game!

Which new parks would you reccommend?

Also: is there a way to rate parks? Or search popular ones for example?