Backwave II vs Iai

[Witcher]

Last night, I tried Backwave II again in WotN except not in Dragon Ninja build when I last tried it in WotW.

My oh my, it's more damaging than Iai despite using same ethereal Dragon Sword except soul matched no more than 10-12 levels higher and more points on Heart. Pretty much 2 shot all red revenants :O

Bit of shame can't use Backwave II on yokai or get the same animation as the other skill that takes out of ki human up and drop them on the head - this skill out to be a final blow. I mean this move should break their necks with such force And the animation is almost as good as tonfa's grapple.

Thanks James for helping me with practices and your encouragements ;)

[Zamus]

But why compared it vs iai, the awesomeness of backwave is that allows an Iai on a downed human and then follow up with a finishing blow and then perform another Iai after that, both of these skills work so well together that only LW humans are safe from the huge punish (and only as long as the LW bar lasts), my sword especifically has stared iai and finishing blow damage since I only ever use it to punish/parry humans using these 2 skills.

[Witcher]

Well, b/c I thought Iai is one of the (if not) highest damage skill move in Nioh. Also, Iai doesn't knock down enemies for me and I just used normal grapple after knocking down human with Backwave II to finish them.

Iai is also slow to execute and if I press R1 and B too quickly or simultaneously, my character just sheaths sword and stands like a sitting duck.

[Witcher]

Hey @Zamus, I believe you wrote somewhere that Attack bonus on Arms are meh meh.

So what's a good attack bonus for Arms?

[DooG Is Eternal]

Its easier to hold R1 + tap B twice to make sure iai goes into charge mode. Otherwise iai is always wonky for players who are not used to them, like what you said a sitting duck.

Iai actually can be quick if you do the "ki flux/ pulse into" iai. Swift step makes this very easy as u will dodge to the back of the enemy.

The other method is sheath cancel.

edit: theres also seem to have some hidden mechanic that you will do quick iai, not sure whats the trigger, but for me at least its doable after every izuna.

Both will requires practise till you can get comfy with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4uCwaCn18

iai does the most dmg simply because it just do :D we use it to cheese and oneshot stuff in endgame when stuff gets too tedious.

[Witcher]

Thanks for the tip about double tapping B. Do I hold B on 2nd tap? Anyways, Iai doesn't knock down enemies like Backwave II..?

Ah, so your mentor uses a spear too ;) Same with this guy below. Do you know why his sword is constantly flaming - grace set?

https://youtu.be/k-kkLThtFe0?t=4m51s

[DooG Is Eternal]

Fire talisman. It does give extra dmg so why not :/

Hold 2nd B.

Need to hit a charged iai from behind to knock them down. A lot of speed runner abuse iai loop to endlessly knock them down.

[Witcher]

I tried iai'ing yoki and namahage from behind last night but didn't knock them down or kill them. On the contrary, they counter attack almost immediately :/

[DooG Is Eternal]

Only for humans ;) just like backwave.

Should request zamus for some coop session, so he can coach you on how to punish with both backwave and iai.

Personally I'm not very fond of basic katana moveset, thus didn't spend much time to practise it.

[Witcher]

Ah, non-red/boss humans usually don't survive an iai but it's hard to get behind a red human or boss and iai without them reacting first.

Incidentally, anyone managed to defeat the first red dual swords guy you encounter in Defiled Castle WotN? I swear this guy is almost immune to all elements and regenerates HP like Honda.

[Witcher]

Like to co-op with Zamus and some others here except they are on the other side of the world. I have got you and Adran010 anyways ;P

I don't like katana's move set either - more boring than spear tbh ;P Except for that move on out of ki human.

Edit: Maybe we both learn spears together with Adran010 ;P

I'm gonna try if Morning Moon is good at breaking horns.

[DooG Is Eternal]

I'm learning spear, it's not boring so far.

Katana is still super effective tho.

[Deostades]

Oprindeligt skrevet af James D Bad Suzu:

I'm learning spear, it's not boring so far.

Katana is still super effective tho.

Excited that so many people are converting to my favorite weapon ^_^

Sword is extremely effective, and Iai is perfect for one-shotting most anything once you get the power behind it. The main thing sword has going for it, IMO, though, is that it has no bad matchups in the kinds of enemies it's good against.

For example, Spear is extraordinarily effective against single human opponents. Get them into a Chidori loop or a Tornado spam, and foes like Yukimura or Honda go down like chumps. However, spear struggles with some Yokai bosses like Otani or Ishida. Low stance simply doesn't hit high enought to reach Otani's floating ***, and Ishida is just a little too twitchy with his grab moves to risk Finishers, which is where Spear's best damage is.

Sword has none of those problems. Between Flowing Shadows, your pick of parry, Iai, and good spacing all of those bosses are equally viable to kill. That's why Sword is what I recommend to new players - it may not be the best dps, ttk, or most visually interesting, but there are no times you are disadvantaged, you always have a simple enough path to victory, and if you master Iai-chaining you can swiftly kill everything in the game.

Not as fun as mad-spinner axe or chidori spear or spastic tonfa, but to each their own :)

[puzzlefox]

Mad spinner is pretty fun

But I've been using odachi more. Odachi, imo, is the hardest to get good with cause it requires so much stance dancing to be work accommodate different situations whereas weapons like the axe can obliterate everything in one stance.

[Witcher]

@Deostades, thanks for your comment :)

What stance do you normally use with spear. I read Spearfall is good at breaking horns or draining human Ki.

Does Wild Spear have and tracking on enemy or just runs in a straight line?

[Deostades]

I tend to run High Stance for humans, as the stagger-effect of the finishers is effected by stance. I use High-Stance Chidori (it knocks humans in the air and flat on their back for a Final Blow), Mid-stance Water Wheel (I like it better than Spearfall for breaking yokai horns), and Low-stance Tornado (which is an excellent damage dealer all-around).

Wild Spear is pretty unreliable. It deals damage, and has some tracking, but unless you're in a tiny corridor and your target is right against the wall, you'll be carried beyond them very quickly.

Twisting Spear, on the other hand, is amazingly awesome and while it doesn't deal as much damage as Iai, I can still one-shot most un-aura-powered-up enemies, including Raven Tengu and Magutsu Warriors.

For normal enemies, Mid-stance, with the strong-attack string (the three pokes at a little bit of distance) lets me kill most everything without getting hit. For larger Yokai (Raven Tengu, One-eyed Oni, etc..) Low-stance, with Tornado when they're in a cool-down after an attack.

For everywhere I can get away with it: Twisting Spear from about 10 feet away.