You know, of all the details in this game i found funny, the treatment of oda nobunaga is the most amusing

[Shin Dan]

You've got a small army of people, some of whom KNEW nobunaga during his wartime days, convinced that the man is and remains the purest form of concentrated evil in the world and will stop at nothing to prevent kelly from resurrecting him.

what happens when nobunaga returns from the grave?

He slaps you around for a few minutes for his own amusement, tells kelly to piss off, then goes back to sleep, laughing at kelly while he does it. and his reasons are "I did ♥♥♥♥, japan changed, ieyasu's doing good enough, ♥♥♥♥ off i'm too old for this ♥♥♥♥."

So basically we've got historically accurate nobunaga in a version of japan where he's the second coming of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ devil. for those who don't know much, nobunaga WAS a monster, but he was also an eccentric warlord who spat on conventions and traditions because he felt they were stifling, the use of spanish armor is also historically accurate, nobunaga was utterly fascinated by western culture and wore plate armor, one of his retainers was african, and the man was very open-minded about a lot of things.

he ALSO had a temper that made him nearly impossible to reason with, during his old man's funeral he sobbed his guts out whereas everyone else tried to remain stoic, then he proceeded to throw a raging fit and threw incense on his old man's corpse and generally made a mess of the funeral like an animal, this actually led to the whole war he was famous for fighting, as his actions during the funeral caused him to fall out of favor with a LOT of his father's retainers and so they decided his brother should inherit the clan. since oda was the rightful heir.....this....led to a lot of bloodshed, which in turn led to somewhat unrelated bloodshed, which subsequently led to EVEN MORE BLOODSHED and finally a bunch of monks pissed nobunaga off because they were fighting against him as well, and despite the temple housing women and children, nobunaga was like "INNOCENTS WILL NOT STOP ME FROM MURDERING THESE ANNOYING WARRIOR MONKS, WHO DO THEY THINK I AM? SOME KINDA JAPANESE GUY WITH SCRUPLES?!?!" and we all know what happened next,

point being, oda was an unusual person for a japanese, and a lot of people wonder what might've taken place in a nobunaga-ruled japan. while the whole temple burning thing didn't do him a lot of favors, it was ultimately ieyasu himself who created nobunaga's "Demon king" persona via propaganda and the tokugawas sealed the country off, pretty much the opposite of what nobunaga would've done. history is written by the victors was preceded by another phrase, "nobunaga grows the rice, (i forget the other guy's name) kneads it, and tokugawa eats it." as oda put it in the game "the tanuki walks the trail i blazed" while this isn't ENTIRELY accurate, ieyasu owes much of his success to the foundation oda laid for him.

in this context, I have a habit of viewing ieyasu as a somewhat underhanded villain, nobunaga wasn't a complete monster, he was driven by an honest desire to unite japan and he was especially good to peasants, made a lot of reforms that benefitted japan in the long run and was an extremely effective, if INSANELY VOLATILE ruler, whereas tokugawa pretty much hid most of this behind his ruthless actions and painted him as what he always styled himself to be "the demon king of the seventh hell" or some such, a name he took to mock the clergy who, at the time, had a firm stranglehold on japanese politics and a LOT of military influence in their own right.

So it's funny to me that nobunaga is the only person in the entire game who got nobunaga right, everyone else is convinced he's this evil demonic overlord who HAS to be stopped, nobunaga is just like "The ♥♥♥♥ is this? i'm not your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ toy!! go kill yourself i got sleeping to do!" i find it especially funny that KELLY of all people was so convinced of this fabrication that he resurrected the warlord only to discover that the oda was the only one unaware of how evil he was supposed to be.

sorry for the history lesson, probably got some details wrong, just look at a wiki or something for a more accurate summary.

[淵 Super Bunyan]

Nobunaga did nothing wrong, Married a hot chick, became badass then got bored of slapping your ♥♥♥♥ and went back to go sleep abit and hang out with his wife and crack a beer.

[awanderingswordsman]

I thought that was pretty great too. I did not like how he is beating you in the cutscene though considering I was whopping his ass in the gameplay just prior. The irony is great though. Demon king nobunaga resurrected AS the demon king and he actually isn't evil.

[GhostyGG]

I think they did Ieyasu right, the game just doesn't give him screentime to show his actions. When u first meet him you see some fiends around his guardian spirit, and the fact he basically sacrificed his family in the game to achieve a unified japan reflects this.

[Serrassi Effect]

Very interesting read! My only knowledge of nobunaga was basically from games were he was this absolute evil demon final boss kind of character, so I fully expected him to be just that in this game. I thought it was a strange turn of event, but this actually make a lot of sense out of this.

[his1roguenation]

drifters

[DooG Is Eternal]

so historically did ieyasu lewd the ginchiyo?

[lmaogg]

they obviously only bring nobunaga back for the cameo and silly plot, and dump him into a sub mission that pis players off. Most other sengoku game will make nobunaga kind of the last boss with his 'demonic' title. Here he's just a fAbuLouS looking beardy who walks off edgily.

But that point about leyasu really make sense. I mean you need to name someone else a villian so you can proclaim yourself as a hero. There is no good when there is no evil kind of thing.

And I rememeber how much cringe I had when i first fought orochi, kelly be like "I revived the most feared yokai".
I was like "Cmon bruh, non japanese or those not interested in folklore will not even know that orochi is really the most feared or not. In fact orochi got slayed by the all famous susanoo like nothing", sounds like they can't think of a better demon for a western theme ouroboros so they just go with orochi.

[Tripas]

Yeah, I didn't buy the whole "Nobunaga acts all wise and calm, accepting his limited time on this earth and going back to sleep" thing. It was a nice scene and everything, but it didn't fit Nobunaga's personality at all.

The dude was a heartless murderer, even the game mentions time and again how he even killed women and children without pity. When his brother-in-law betrayed him and switched allegiances, Nobunaga made it a point that he was the one who was going to kill him. If there's one emotion that defined Nobounaga, it was "rage".

If Nobunaga ever DID get ressurected, I would bet every single cent I own that the first thing he was going to do was MURDER the hell out of Akechi Mitsuhide/Tenkai. Slowly and painfully. Then maybe use the same magic that brought him back to life to ressurect Mitsuhide and kill him all over again. Rinse and repeat.

And then he would just get back to conquering the whole of Japan.

[Dr Morningwood]

While the whole 'i leave the country to Tokugawa' is a bit dubious, i like that Oda chose to appear next in 2 side missions - Fullfilling his retainer's dream of being a real samurai (fighting with Obsidian samurai together) and to chill out (lol) with his waifu.

[Rogue]

Yes, a history with amrita and yokai in a game no less. So surreal... Wow, you can learn so much with over dramatic acting from motion captured actors and story telling scripts. Heh.

[Shin Dan]

Originally posted by Tripas:

Yeah, I didn't buy the whole "Nobunaga acts all wise and calm, accepting his limited time on this earth and going back to sleep" thing. It was a nice scene and everything, but it didn't fit Nobunaga's personality at all.

The dude was a heartless murderer, even the game mentions time and again how he even killed women and children without pity. When his brother-in-law betrayed him and switched allegiances, Nobunaga made it a point that he was the one who was going to kill him. If there's one emotion that defined Nobounaga, it was "rage".

If Nobunaga ever DID get ressurected, I would bet every single cent I own that the first thing he was going to do was MURDER the hell out of Akechi Mitsuhide/Tenkai. Slowly and painfully. Then maybe use the same magic that brought him back to life to ressurect Mitsuhide and kill him all over again. Rinse and repeat.

And then he would just get back to conquering the whole of Japan.

pretty sure attacking adams in a cold rage sorta fits that bill. like his very first response to being resurrected is to "beat the ever living ♥♥♥♥ outta this gaijin" shortly before telling kelley to piss off and going back to sleep.

But yeah, calm and collected nobunaga most certainly wasn't. at least in terms of people who wronged him. when it came to actually ruling, he did a pretty good job.

[Tripas]

Originally posted by The Dandy:

pretty sure attacking adams in a cold rage sorta fits that bill. like his very first response to being resurrected is to "beat the ever living ♥♥♥♥ outta this gaijin" shortly before telling kelley to piss off and going back to sleep.

Kinda would have made more sense to beat up Kelley instead. I mean, this "foreign peasant" steals his body, reanimates it without his consent and then has the gall to presume that he, Oda Nobunaga, will serve him?

If this wasn't a videogame (where you pretty much HAVE to fight these characters as separate boss fights), that moment would have ended up with Nobunaga killing off Kelley for you. Which would have been a bit anti-climatic, but also hilarious.

[Shin Dan]

Originally posted by Tripas:

Originally posted by The Dandy:

pretty sure attacking adams in a cold rage sorta fits that bill. like his very first response to being resurrected is to "beat the ever living ♥♥♥♥ outta this gaijin" shortly before telling kelley to piss off and going back to sleep.

Kinda would have made more sense to beat up Kelley instead. I mean, this "foreign peasant" steals his body, reanimates it without his consent and then has the gall to presume that he, Oda Nobunaga, will serve him?

If this wasn't a videogame (where you pretty much HAVE to fight these characters as separate boss fights), that moment would have ended up with Nobunaga killing off Kelley for you. Which would have been a bit anti-climatic, but also hilarious.

Honestly yeah, the game had no excuse to do that aside from make kelley look like an idiot.

admittedly that may have been the entire point of the sequence, to ♥♥♥♥ with kelley by leading him on.

it feels like something nobunaga would do, he was said to be quite eccentric.

[Corrodias]

I'm not up to this point in the game yet, but thus far the writing does not impress. It's basic and insulting with zero entertainment value, with an antagonist with evidently unlimited power to teleport (and possibly manipulate time?) yet repeatedly presenting himself as a target for no apparent reason. Fortunately for him, the other characters usually just stand there holding the idiot ball while he does whatever he wants. That effectively eliminates any sense of William (or the player by extension) having a GOAL here other than showing up to watch Kelley show off some more.

[Shin Dan]

Originally posted by Corrodias:

I'm not up to this point in the game yet, but thus far the writing does not impress. It's basic and insulting with zero entertainment value, with an antagonist with evidently unlimited power to teleport (and possibly manipulate time?) yet repeatedly presenting himself as a target for no apparent reason. Fortunately for him, the other characters usually just stand there holding the idiot ball while he does whatever he wants. That effectively eliminates any sense of William (or the player by extension) having a GOAL here other than showing up to watch Kelley show off some more.

the ultimate goal is to stop a cartoon villain from being a dumbass in japan.

that's literally it.

so just roll with it, kelley is an awful character, he's more saturday cartoon villain camp than an actual person.