Anyone else really dissatified with Nioh's difficulty philosphy?

[TATW]

This game reminds me really hard of ords of the fallen and dark souls II in terms of difficulty design. Difficult just for the sake of being difficult.

I'm thinking of giving up because all the bosses i fought yet felt really cheap for me. They take ages to be killed, and can yet one-shot or at best two-shot you with every of their attacks. Some attacks are really quick and have basically no forewarning. Also whats the point of them having a stamina bar, when they don't react to it all (expection is warrior of the west). Also the debuffs they apply are just ridicioulus overtuned.

I'm a huge fan of the dark souls series, and even through it has it ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ moments, it mostly felt fair. Also many of its more difficult bosses were really good in my opinion. For example i loved hard bosses like the pontiff, gael or artorias and the fights were always a blast for me, but in Nioh i just want to get it over, because it all feels so cheap. If i would summarize all the bosses i fought with a dark souls boss, it would be the ancient dragon from dark souls II- Extremly tanky, high one-shot potential, bad moveset, just a really unfun boss in general. Its the easy and cheap way to create difficulty.The bosses without the high hp and damage output, would be at best mediocre. Imagine bloodborne with these mechanics always inplay. It would ♥♥♥♥ on Nioh even more than it does already.

Perhaps im just a really bad player, but nearly always when i die, i don't have the feeling to deserve this. In Sekiro it also takes very long to kill the bosses and very fast to be killed, but the game gives you fair bosses with many options to avoid damage.

For those who are interested in my build, i use a odachi in high stance, yet it does pitiful damge, eventhrough i use one the highest level i can get. Also my armor-set is the best i can use without getting over 70%, yet it cant protect me from being one-shoted by any of those cheap bosses.
Most of my level-points i invested into vitality, strength, and equipment load.
Im currently at level 57 and stuck on the ice lady. What am i doing wrong?

I'm not your typical kaizo-hack player so the game isn't meant for me. If you disagree with me you can do it, if you write it in a constructive way. But Git-gud autists can leave their autism for themselves
But im hopefully not the only one who feels that way about this game?!

Also sorry for my bad english and for being perhaps too harsh.

[Gorwe]

Nanashi původně napsal:

Gorwe původně napsal:

I was talking about Soul Matching. Every once in a while you just come across an item that you just want to use because it has nice bonuses. But the way the SM works(actually, the way its cost spikes through the roof), you...are prohibited from using it after an arbitrary amount of time. If SM was cheaper, I wouldn't object to it. Well, I would, I do not like Diablo like rng loot systems. I much prefer guaranteed drop system of Souls.

Soul matching is pretty useless before NG+ and even then it's hardy necessary to the amount that requires you to farm for money. Way of the Demon was the first time I had no money left from soul matching and I never repeated any missions. Only played every single one in the difficulties before that.

Granted, I don't like the equipment system(rather the loot system tbh) they use, but I'd just SM the weapon I like rather than just go with random crap. One man's crap is another man's treasure and all of that.

Raemnant původně napsal:

I found the human bosses to be extremely easy. Very simple to dodge, easy to know what attacks theyre using. Its all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ yokai with their huge aoe attacks and their combos and grabs and weird hit boxes, and their get up-attacks while also being speedy bois, that was the main problem for me. Might have been all the revenant killing I did, but dueling human opponents was a no factor for me

I like humans much better. Yokai just feel too much like Dark Souls in Nioh 1. 2 supposedly fixed a lot of that feeling with Counter Burst etc.

[skibidi groilet]

I absolutely disagree, Nioh can be broken very easily. Stacking armor and regen buffs, using quick-change scrolls to cheat death alleviate most of the tension during boss fights.

Be sure to use the magic that makes them unable to get ki back, and be ruthless once they're out of it.

Learn the patterns, dodge accordingly, get good. Don't be afraid to slow down and keep your distance if you lack confidence.

You said you used the odachi in high stance, that's a terrible way to play. The game wants you to switch stances depending on the situation, and the odachi excels at it by letting you combo out of and into another stance.

[Gorwe]

telopots původně napsal:

I absolutely disagree, Nioh can be broken very easily. Stacking armor and regen buffs, using quick-change scrolls to cheat death alleviate most of the tension during boss fights.

Be sure to use the magic that makes them unable to get ki back, and be ruthless once they're out of it.

Learn the patterns, dodge accordingly, get good. Don't be afraid to slow down and keep your distance if you lack confidence.

You said you used the odachi in high stance, that's a terrible way to play. The game wants you to switch stances depending on the situation, and the odachi excels at it by letting you combo out of and into another stance.

Yes, you can. To the point that it looks more like your conventional cheating. Outside of "God Mode", ofc. That's definitely one of the strengths of Nioh IP and one of their main differences from Souls. Souls framework can't be really broken or stretched, you can do what you can do(there were examples like perma invisible Sorcerers in Souls 1, guess that's why those specific spells got cut out - not "Souls so hard" enough), but not that much outside of it, it's very well put but crude. Nioh's framework is much more elastic and you can do whatever. Want easy mode? There are at least 2 ways that I can remember without putting any real effort into it:

1. Anything supported by Onmyo(particularly by Sloth and its family) and Ninjutsu(Kunai, Quick Change etc)

2. Axe + Kusarigama + Heavy Armor + Kikkawa Clan(extra points for Onmyo buffs). Yeah, you can freely bully BOSSES with that one! You are literally OP!

3. Combine those two...oh I won't speak about that! Using actual cheats is much more honorable lol.

///

And you know what? That's fine, having that amount of freedom. Ofc, it comes with a cost and that cost is a much more punishing game, but...you have enough tools, unless you are doing "themed" runs like I am.

[Just Aaron]

Gorwe původně napsal:

telopots původně napsal:

I absolutely disagree, Nioh can be broken very easily. Stacking armor and regen buffs, using quick-change scrolls to cheat death alleviate most of the tension during boss fights.

Be sure to use the magic that makes them unable to get ki back, and be ruthless once they're out of it.

Learn the patterns, dodge accordingly, get good. Don't be afraid to slow down and keep your distance if you lack confidence.

You said you used the odachi in high stance, that's a terrible way to play. The game wants you to switch stances depending on the situation, and the odachi excels at it by letting you combo out of and into another stance.

Yes, you can. To the point that it looks more like your conventional cheating. Outside of "God Mode", ofc. That's definitely one of the strengths of Nioh IP and one of their main differences from Souls. Souls framework can't be really broken or stretched, you can do what you can do(there were examples like perma invisible Sorcerers in Souls 1, guess that's why those specific spells got cut out - not "Souls so hard" enough), but not that much outside of it, it's very well put but crude. Nioh's framework is much more elastic and you can do whatever. Want easy mode? There are at least 2 ways that I can remember without putting any real effort into it:

1. Anything supported by Onmyo(particularly by Sloth and its family) and Ninjutsu(Kunai, Quick Change etc)

2. Axe + Kusarigama + Heavy Armor + Kikkawa Clan(extra points for Onmyo buffs). Yeah, you can freely bully BOSSES with that one! You are literally OP!

3. Combine those two...oh I won't speak about that! Using actual cheats is much more honorable lol.

///

And you know what? That's fine, having that amount of freedom. Ofc, it comes with a cost and that cost is a much more punishing game, but...you have enough tools, unless you are doing "themed" runs like I am.

Their is nothing honorable about using cheats and ruining the multiplayer for other people. Pretty much everything you said is incorrect.

1. Using the axe does not make the game any easier compared to the other weapons.
2. Heavy armor isn`t OP.
3. Kikkawa clan is a good one but it`s not even close to being OP.
4. It`s clear you haven`t made it to Way of the Nioh or Abyss floor 108 or above. If you had you would know that Sloth loses its effectiveness on the harder difficulties. Only lasts 3 seconds and doesn`t slow them down as much.

Stop trying to justify using cheats and ruining the experience for others.

[Gorwe]

Just Aaron původně napsal:

Gorwe původně napsal:

Yes, you can. To the point that it looks more like your conventional cheating. Outside of "God Mode", ofc. That's definitely one of the strengths of Nioh IP and one of their main differences from Souls. Souls framework can't be really broken or stretched, you can do what you can do(there were examples like perma invisible Sorcerers in Souls 1, guess that's why those specific spells got cut out - not "Souls so hard" enough), but not that much outside of it, it's very well put but crude. Nioh's framework is much more elastic and you can do whatever. Want easy mode? There are at least 2 ways that I can remember without putting any real effort into it:

1. Anything supported by Onmyo(particularly by Sloth and its family) and Ninjutsu(Kunai, Quick Change etc)

2. Axe + Kusarigama + Heavy Armor + Kikkawa Clan(extra points for Onmyo buffs). Yeah, you can freely bully BOSSES with that one! You are literally OP!

3. Combine those two...oh I won't speak about that! Using actual cheats is much more honorable lol.

///

And you know what? That's fine, having that amount of freedom. Ofc, it comes with a cost and that cost is a much more punishing game, but...you have enough tools, unless you are doing "themed" runs like I am.

Their is nothing honorable about using cheats and ruining the multiplayer for other people. Pretty much everything you said is incorrect.

1. Using the axe does not make the game any easier compared to the other weapons.
2. Heavy armor isn`t OP.
3. Kikkawa clan is a good one but it`s not even close to being OP.
4. It`s clear you haven`t made it to Way of the Nioh or Abyss floor 108 or above. If you had you would know that Sloth loses its effectiveness on the harder difficulties. Only lasts 3 seconds and doesn`t slow them down as much.

Stop trying to justify using cheats and ruining the experience for others.

Yes, I don't care to go for higher difficulties, sue me.

And it's not justification. A person can ruin his own game mastery exactly due to what you said. Things get nerfed in higher difficulties, but you grow accustomed to Sloth and co and that hurts you in the long run. And none of that is OP by itself, but together?

Adamantine + Summer Twilight + Onmyo Buffs + Kikkawa Elixir(=clear debuffs) + Heavy Armor = super toughness + super durability + huge damage(ever heard of the Reaper? or some equivalent for anti human, probably on Axe)...yeah, you are like invulnerable for the first 3 difficulties or whatever.

But I will not ad hominem, I'll leave that specialty to you, mon amie! I'll answer with reason.

[Just Aaron]

Gorwe původně napsal:

Just Aaron původně napsal:

Their is nothing honorable about using cheats and ruining the multiplayer for other people. Pretty much everything you said is incorrect.

1. Using the axe does not make the game any easier compared to the other weapons.
2. Heavy armor isn`t OP.
3. Kikkawa clan is a good one but it`s not even close to being OP.
4. It`s clear you haven`t made it to Way of the Nioh or Abyss floor 108 or above. If you had you would know that Sloth loses its effectiveness on the harder difficulties. Only lasts 3 seconds and doesn`t slow them down as much.

Stop trying to justify using cheats and ruining the experience for others.

Yes, I don't care to go for higher difficulties, sue me.

And it's not justification. A person can ruin his own game mastery exactly due to what you said. Things get nerfed in higher difficulties, but you grow accustomed to Sloth and co and that hurts you in the long run. And none of that is OP by itself, but together?

Adamantine + Summer Twilight + Onmyo Buffs + Kikkawa Elixir(=clear debuffs) + Heavy Armor = super toughness + super durability + huge damage(ever heard of the Reaper? or some equivalent for anti human, probably on Axe)...yeah, you are like invulnerable for the first 3 difficulties or whatever.

But I will not ad hominem, I'll leave that specialty to you, mon amie! I'll answer with reason.

Everything is OP on the easy difficulties. The first 3 or 4 difficulties are to teach you how to play the game and allow you to unlock everything. This is why any conversation about how useful the various builds are or how useful magic is will be referring to Way of the Nioh or Abyss floor 108 or above. (I can never remember when the Abyss difficulty tops out. I know it is somewhere between 107 and 110.)

No one is going to ruin their experience by using magic. I can`t imagine why you think that. My guess is you heard some youtuber or streamer say that and now you are repeating it. Or maybe you read it somewhere and didn`t think to question whether or not it is true.

[Raemnant]

The first couple difficulties are not the entry level of the game. 90% of the playerbase will never play the game beyond completing the game once, and devs know that. The rest of the content is for us, the people who wish to continue playing, but thats why it is all literally exactly the same thing over and over, just with buffed stats and speed. You cant talk about the difficulties of these games and make a reference to Way of Nioh or anything like that. Thats just not realistic. Its for us, not for the general public, who are the ones coming into the game and forming opinions. You cant discredit their experience just because you like to play a game over and over and over again and break it

[Gorwe]

Just Aaron původně napsal:

Gorwe původně napsal:

Yes, I don't care to go for higher difficulties, sue me.

And it's not justification. A person can ruin his own game mastery exactly due to what you said. Things get nerfed in higher difficulties, but you grow accustomed to Sloth and co and that hurts you in the long run. And none of that is OP by itself, but together?

Adamantine + Summer Twilight + Onmyo Buffs + Kikkawa Elixir(=clear debuffs) + Heavy Armor = super toughness + super durability + huge damage(ever heard of the Reaper? or some equivalent for anti human, probably on Axe)...yeah, you are like invulnerable for the first 3 difficulties or whatever.

But I will not ad hominem, I'll leave that specialty to you, mon amie! I'll answer with reason.

Everything is OP on the easy difficulties. The first 3 or 4 difficulties are to teach you how to play the game and allow you to unlock everything. This is why any conversation about how useful the various builds are or how useful magic is will be referring to Way of the Nioh or Abyss floor 108 or above. (I can never remember when the Abyss difficulty tops out. I know it is somewhere between 107 and 110.)

No one is going to ruin their experience by using magic. I can`t imagine why you think that. My guess is you heard some youtuber or streamer say that and now you are repeating it. Or maybe you read it somewhere and didn`t think to question whether or not it is true.

No, it's just the common sense(or my sense, huh). People come across powerful things, they get hooked on them and then they feel powerless once the gimmicks are taken from them. Because they haven't really learned. There's a world of difference between parrying humans and playing like that and (ab)using Kunai and Onmyo.

Raemnant původně napsal:

The first couple difficulties are not the entry level of the game. 90% of the playerbase will never play the game beyond completing the game once, and devs know that. The rest of the content is for us, the people who wish to continue playing, but thats why it is all literally exactly the same thing over and over, just with buffed stats and speed. You cant talk about the difficulties of these games and make a reference to Way of Nioh or anything like that. Thats just not realistic. Its for us, not for the general public, who are the ones coming into the game and forming opinions. You cant discredit their experience just because you like to play a game over and over and over again and break it

I like to play it over and over too, but not really in super high difficulties. I just don't get a kick out of that. I mean, I'd rather have that than boring easy mode, but a balanced difficulty is something more up my alley. Something like NG+ or what have you. Now, the grind...no, that's not up my alley at all.

But I'm not everyone. And a LOT of people probably finish Nioh once or twice and feel like they've got their money's worth. Which they probably did, it's like 100h experience at that point. They most likely will not play the same things just with few mechanics more or what have you. They could periodically come back(like me), but they won't go for Abyss 100+. I can guarantee that 99,99% of players have no such aspirations. So, there's the challenge of designing a game so it is both fun to progress and to endgame. It's not easy. (and, ofc, optimal / efficiency vs fun)