Jin Hayabusa

[RexEviL]

Can someone tell me how the ♥♥♥♥ he can atk later and hit first? I am on low stance sword and he is exactly at my swords range I start animation first but he lands first. I either not land hit or hit at same time but die as a results either way.

[Deostades]

He's very much the "cheap" bonus boss. He's supposed to be ridiculous, and he lives up to it quite easly.

The answer is that his attacks are given priority, every time. And he's fast; no matter what the windup looks like, he is quicker than most everything you can throw.

The way to fight him is to get your quick hits in when you can, and dodge out of the way the instant you see him starting an attack. You'll learn his pattern, much like any boss, and win eventually.

Shuriken/Kunai do well against him, as he will block them every time (meaning that he's not attacking, and you get closer).

[Kaiser Afini]

He is a disciple from the Tachibana Muneshige school of artificial difficulty. His attacks have priority, his stamina recovery speed invalidates Ki breaks (he can choose to not be staggered), he has input reading, can interrupt his own attack animations, is practically unstaggerable, can close distances in the blink of an eye, does insane damage, the works. Its sad that they made such a cool concept for a boss such a cheap fight, takes all the fun out of trying to do fancy combos, part of what makes the human enemies interesting is that they are subject to the same rules as you.

Maybe this can offer some inspiration on how to approach the fight, or just make you happy to see him get pummeled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBCaKsUoE0&t=86s

[Shoebsy]

Originally posted by Kaiser Afini:

He is a disciple from the Tachibana Muneshige school of artificial difficulty. His attacks have priority, his stamina recovery speed invalidates Ki breaks (he can choose to not be staggered), he has input reading, can interrupt his own attack animations, is practically unstaggerable, can close distances in the blink of an eye, does insane damage, the works. Its sad that they made such a cool concept for a boss such a cheap fight, takes all the fun out of trying to do fancy combos, part of what makes the human enemies interesting is that they are subject to the same rules as you.

Maybe this can offer some inspiration on how to approach the fight, or just make you happy to see him get pummeled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBCaKsUoE0&t=86s

While i totally agree, he's totally a redicously 'secret' bonus boss, and he's not suppose to be fair.

He's actually the closest thing to the player's abilities, No other boss is subject to the same rules of you.. Expect for him. Every other human boss has much slower regen, has much slower defense builds-ups. While they all react with defense, *You* choose how far the distance you engage in his.. With Hyubusa? Both of you choose (And he has advantage of mobility for the first time in the game)

His stamina regen is the same as a light armoured player. He's aggressive enough that you're at threat at all times (That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ great considering 95% of boss encounters have large rooms and lots of breathing room) His damage is insane.. but that's just par for the course for Nioh and it's DLC.

This isn't a boss fight where your welcome to just do "Fancy combos" this is a pure, mechinically knownledgable boss.


He totally is staggerable, his combos are as fast as yours, His reach is a little crazy, but that's needed for the AI... He can't interupt his own attacks,

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Kiroshi:

Originally posted by Kaiser Afini:

He is a disciple from the Tachibana Muneshige school of artificial difficulty. His attacks have priority, his stamina recovery speed invalidates Ki breaks (he can choose to not be staggered), he has input reading, can interrupt his own attack animations, is practically unstaggerable, can close distances in the blink of an eye, does insane damage, the works. Its sad that they made such a cool concept for a boss such a cheap fight, takes all the fun out of trying to do fancy combos, part of what makes the human enemies interesting is that they are subject to the same rules as you.

Maybe this can offer some inspiration on how to approach the fight, or just make you happy to see him get pummeled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBCaKsUoE0&t=86s

While i totally agree, he's totally a redicously 'secret' bonus boss, and he's not suppose to be fair.

He's actually the closest thing to the player's abilities, No other boss is subject to the same rules of you.. Expect for him. Every other human boss has much slower regen, has much slower defense builds-ups. While they all react with defense, *You* choose how far the distance you engage in his.. With Hyubusa? Both of you choose (And he has advantage of mobility for the first time in the game)

His stamina regen is the same as a light armoured player. He's aggressive enough that you're at threat at all times (That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ great considering 95% of boss encounters have large rooms and lots of breathing room) His damage is insane.. but that's just par for the course for Nioh and it's DLC.

This isn't a boss fight where your welcome to just do "Fancy combos" this is a pure, mechinically knownledgable boss.


He totally is staggerable, his combos are as fast as yours, His reach is a little crazy, but that's needed for the AI... He can't interupt his own attacks,

These are 2 conflicting statements, I'll have to see whenever I get to that point.

[Shoebsy]

It'll depend on your view of the game.

is a death, a loss to you?
Is a statistically stronger boss (in both numbers, and concept) an uphill battle?

Would you prefer a power fantasy, or an underdog challange?

Is it acceptable for you *not* to beat a boss?

Do you prefer limitions, or would you prefer to cheese *their* limitations?



It's basically the "Git gud" mentality, versus *Feeling* progress.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Kiroshi:

It'll depend on your view of the game.

is a death, a loss to you?
Is a statistically stronger boss (in both numbers, and concept) an uphill battle?

Would you prefer a power fantasy, or an underdog challange?

Is it acceptable for you *not* to beat a boss?

Do you prefer limitions, or would you prefer to cheese *their* limitations?



It's basically the "Git gud" mentality, versus *Feeling* progress.

I was referring you stating he plays like the player character, and the person you were responding to.

[Shoebsy]

Originally posted by Kaiser Afini:

He is a disciple from the Tachibana Muneshige school of artificial difficulty. His attacks have priority, his stamina recovery speed invalidates Ki breaks (he can choose to not be staggered), he has input reading, can interrupt his own attack animations, is practically unstaggerable, can close distances in the blink of an eye, does insane damage, the works.

- You as the player character, have had Attacks are priority before (you stagger any broken Yokai, and any non-living weapon human character)

- You as the player, Have much higher stamina recovery compared to bosses.. and human enemies break extremely fast.

- "input reading" is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and not true, He's aggressive and will attack, but if he had input reading, you'd literally never land a hit on him. The player also has this ability.. Knowing the animations of your enemy.

- He can't interupt his own attacks though.

- He's not unstaggerable.

- He can kinda close distances very quickly. Kinda expected of a Ninja.. No? Meanwhile, your sprint can do the exact same.

- Insane damage? Well.. yeah. Nioh. Welcome to the game, your mistakes are punished.


I'm just saying that you can treat this optional boss as "unfair" all you want. But it's not because he has unbelievablable high numbers...
Do you take this boss as a yet another new challange? or do you call it "Unfair" because he's won a few times?


A computer has to have some different ways of 'cheating'.. to actually present itself as a challange to a flexable human being. It's asysmetical balance

[RexEviL]

He is also immune to status effects caused by weapons. He often goes ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mode attacking 8-12 sword combo. Even Date Shigezane looks like a kid compared to him.

[Kaiser Afini]

Originally posted by Kiroshi:

Originally posted by Kaiser Afini:

He is a disciple from the Tachibana Muneshige school of artificial difficulty. His attacks have priority, his stamina recovery speed invalidates Ki breaks (he can choose to not be staggered), he has input reading, can interrupt his own attack animations, is practically unstaggerable, can close distances in the blink of an eye, does insane damage, the works. Its sad that they made such a cool concept for a boss such a cheap fight, takes all the fun out of trying to do fancy combos, part of what makes the human enemies interesting is that they are subject to the same rules as you.

Maybe this can offer some inspiration on how to approach the fight, or just make you happy to see him get pummeled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBCaKsUoE0&t=86s

While i totally agree, he's totally a redicously 'secret' bonus boss, and he's not suppose to be fair.

He's actually the closest thing to the player's abilities, No other boss is subject to the same rules of you.. Expect for him. Every other human boss has much slower regen, has much slower defense builds-ups. While they all react with defense, *You* choose how far the distance you engage in his.. With Hyubusa? Both of you choose (And he has advantage of mobility for the first time in the game)

His stamina regen is the same as a light armoured player. He's aggressive enough that you're at threat at all times (That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ great considering 95% of boss encounters have large rooms and lots of breathing room) His damage is insane.. but that's just par for the course for Nioh and it's DLC.

This isn't a boss fight where your welcome to just do "Fancy combos" this is a pure, mechinically knownledgable boss.


He totally is staggerable, his combos are as fast as yours, His reach is a little crazy, but that's needed for the AI... He can't interupt his own attacks,

True enough, my character has Agility level A.

If we consider Dark Souls games as an underdog experience, I would say something more along the lines of Bayonetta or DMC3, in other words, the only way for it to look like a power fantasy is if you understand the tools you were given, the enemy patterns and use them to the fullest, beating something in style is a mark of skilled play and practice, but the game does not diminish the challenge for the sake of spectacle.

But against Jin, Muneshige and some dual bosses (especially The Two Nioh mission), there is a point where they are so relentless that you are not sure if an opening is truly an opening. For example, Date Shigezane is relentless, you have to be very careful the entire battle, but I can figure out how to engage him much easier than Muneshige or Jin, who often make me second guess if my strategy is valid. I try to come up with non-cheesy strategies for engaging bosses, but against those two, I beat them, replay the battle in my mind and am not sure how.

Does that make any sense ? Or does it sound confusing ? I am having a hard time finding the right way to express it.

[Shoebsy]

I mean it makes sense. But It sounds like you're sticking with one type of combat. Muneshige is a great boss to teach you that you're not welcome to just repeat your 'wash/rinse/repeat" stratagies. If you stick close, try to circle around him. Say goodbye with that crazy over-head double swing.

Yes.. your stragegy is suppose to be challanged by bosses here in Nioh. Minushige is controlling the space between him and you and refusing to try to hit his back.. His weakspot is his "Arm/Centipede" head-thingy.. and his standard animation leaves you room there.

Jin is clearly one step ahead, As again, he's just a bonus 'secret' (but not secret) boss that's meant to challange you at the end of the game. His aggression is his entire tactic. Yours should be to either be just as *EFFECTIVELY* aggressive (Nioh's entire game design is perfection over anything) Or to abuse his aggression. He doesn't give you as much time to cheese him either, so I feel just mastering the basic machinics of the game are literally our best bed.

Again.. No flashy ♥♥♥♥. This isn't the boss battle for Flips and jumps. It's just a very mechinically knowledgable boss. Versus a boss that is meant to be defeated.

[Kaiser Afini]

Originally posted by Kiroshi:

I mean it makes sense. But It sounds like you're sticking with one type of combat. Muneshige is a great boss to teach you that you're not welcome to just repeat your 'wash/rinse/repeat" stratagies. If you stick close, try to circle around him. Say goodbye with that crazy over-head double swing.

Yes.. your stragegy is suppose to be challanged by bosses here in Nioh. Minushige is controlling the space between him and you and refusing to try to hit his back.. His weakspot is his "Arm/Centipede" head-thingy.. and his standard animation leaves you room there.

Jin is clearly one step ahead, As again, he's just a bonus 'secret' (but not secret) boss that's meant to challange you at the end of the game. His aggression is his entire tactic. Yours should be to either be just as *EFFECTIVELY* aggressive (Nioh's entire game design is perfection over anything) Or to abuse his aggression. He doesn't give you as much time to cheese him either, so I feel just mastering the basic machinics of the game are literally our best bed.

Again.. No flashy ♥♥♥♥. This isn't the boss battle for Flips and jumps. It's just a very mechinically knowledgable boss. Versus a boss that is meant to be defeated.

Wait, did you mean Muneshige or Shigezane ? Shigezane has the whole centipede transformation and yokai arm, Muneshige is the one with the kabuto helm with a golden loop and the green Raiken.

I am not trying to cheese him with anything, or any boss or use wash-rinse-repeat strategies, that would be boring. I am not sticking to one type of combat either, I was using kusa and spear, trying to make the most of my stances, trying to learn to incorporate Flux into combat more fluently, practicing to use the dual katanas more effectively, etc. Experimenting and exploring the mechanics is one of the things I enjoy the most.

[Shoebsy]

I meant Shigezane, whoops. names tend blend together for me.

Muneshige is certainly a big newb-stomper though and honestly i'm convienced HE is overgeared, for his mission level. But he's realtively easy if you properly distance him (Not being far, for him.) and of course.. he demands perfection.

As for tackling Hayabusa, You can use any weapon. but if you're *trying* to make use of your stances (For spears, Sickle+Chain, Odachi and Axe, it's game changing) . and *trying* to learn to use Ki Pulse/Flux/Switch/dodge/Purification.. That may just be that you're a few steps behind?

Nothing bad with learning that, but learning that on Hayabusa? It's not just a uphill battle.

As soon as Yokai start becoming regular enemies, Even just switching/dodging *AND* prufication should be like.. Step 2 for you, Step 1 should be knocking their stamina down, be it with weakpoints or simply punishes.



^^ Also helps to stick with one agility rating, I've always stuck with A-Agility, and in other ratings, my timing is always messed up. watching your ki bar is a terrible idea..

^^^ I also know that you 'spark' a bit when ki flux happens, but the game has a lot of particle effects. It can sometmes get a little visually messy.

[Kaiser Afini]

Oh, wait

Originally posted by Kiroshi:

I meant Shigezane, whoops. names tend blend together for me.

Muneshige is certainly a big newb-stomper though and honestly i'm convienced HE is overgeared, for his mission level. But he's realtively easy if you properly distance him (Not being far, for him.) and of course.. he demands perfection.

As for tackling Hayabusa, You can use any weapon. but if you're *trying* to make use of your stances (For spears, Sickle+Chain, Odachi and Axe, it's game changing) . and *trying* to learn to use Ki Pulse/Flux/Switch/dodge/Purification.. That may just be that you're a few steps behind?

Nothing bad with learning that, but learning that on Hayabusa? It's not just a uphill battle.

As soon as Yokai start becoming regular enemies, Even just switching/dodging *AND* prufication should be like.. Step 2 for you, Step 1 should be knocking their stamina down, be it with weakpoints or simply punishes.



^^ Also helps to stick with one agility rating, I've always stuck with A-Agility, and in other ratings, my timing is always messed up. watching your ki bar is a terrible idea..

^^^ I also know that you 'spark' a bit when ki flux happens, but the game has a lot of particle effects. It can sometmes get a little visually messy.

I think I may have passed the impression I was stuck on him. I beat him on Way of the Samurai for the first time a few days ago, except I walked out of it the same way as the Muneshige fight, meaning "I have no idea what I did to beat this and I don't think I could teach a strategy to beat him to someone", you know, I had to improvise all the way.

[Shoebsy]

"improvision" is the way to go. Less you prefer cheese, which can be more detailed.

If you choose to go all melee.. Your idea might just be "You hit him, and dodge his attacks"

That's not a bad thing, You can tell someone to "Dodge right!" as much as you want, but in a game that demands perfection, If *You* don't act on it before you hear it... well. game sucks..

Hayabusa is pretty much just that. Perfection, not stratagy, but tactics. Not a grand overview, but proper execution. Even with cheese tactics, it's almost impressive to pull off, because he's such an aggressive fighter.

(Similar with the dojo challanges, at a proper level. Those things are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tight as ♥♥♥♥, and you have no other cheese method, other than being overleveled..)

[Kaiser Afini]

Originally posted by Kiroshi:

"improvision" is the way to go. Less you prefer cheese, which can be more detailed.

If you choose to go all melee.. Your idea might just be "You hit him, and dodge his attacks"

That's not a bad thing, You can tell someone to "Dodge right!" as much as you want, but in a game that demands perfection, If *You* don't act on it before you hear it... well. game sucks..

Hayabusa is pretty much just that. Perfection, not stratagy, but tactics. Not a grand overview, but proper execution. Even with cheese tactics, it's almost impressive to pull off, because he's such an aggressive fighter.

(Similar with the dojo challanges, at a proper level. Those things are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tight as ♥♥♥♥, and you have no other cheese method, other than being overleveled..)

Agreed, the fight with Hozoin Inei, for example, was one of the most tense I had so far. I learned so much about reading enemy spear stances, knowing how much to commit to an attack, how to mix your moves, the reach of each one, you become a better fighter just by completing that battle. Same goes for Shisenin Kosen.