How is the combat supposed to work?

[Kalvix]

By this I mean just in general, I've played all the Dark souls games so I'm used to carfu deliberate combat where you waiting for openings then attack, and where dodging is a major thing. However despite that and playing lots of other things in a similar genre I just can't figure this out, every ranged weapon seems 100% impossible to avoid, blocking is the only way to avoid ranged shots, and only the smallest most pathetic enemies are staggered by even a heavy weapon in high stance so I've been forced to kill everything with a boring system of hit once, dodge away, hit once, dodge away, its getting REALLY tedious.

So.. what am I missing that makes the combat flow? I thought the Ki pulse system would help but honestly because of how quickly enemies attack (either instant attacks or long wind ups with no indication of when the attack will actually happen) it doesn't do anything as you never have the option to get a Ki pulse from R1 (top right on xbox) as when I finish getting my single hit in I need to instantly dodge away, if I try to wait for a perfect pulse I get hit (which often means death as everything is a 2 hit kill that eats through Ki if you block).

Is there something I'm missing or did they just try to imitate Dark souls and failed to understand what made the combat satisfying? As honestly I'm about ready to give up as every boss I've fought has just been the worst most boring experience of my life, the first try (even focusing on dodging and not attacking) ends up being killed in seconds by an attack you couldn't possibly have predicted that insta kills me. so learning the boss means I need to die at least 10 times to learn all their attacks, in Dark souls they make it work by not having bosses 1 or 2 shot you so you can get hit and learn, which honestly so far I'm finding to be a WAY better system as nothing about the game feels challenging so far, it just feels cheap.

And no I'm not just slagging it off, from the hours played it's obvious I'm trying to enjoy it and really want to as the only games I've truly enjoyed recently have been the dark souls games and I was really hopeful about this one, but unless I'm missing something vital that makes the whole thing click I don't think I can keep pushing myself through

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

Combat in Nioh is more complex and engaging than Dark Souls. Why not find a video and learn from some of the players who dance around stances, use a range of skills or even change weapons on the fly?

[Zamus]

This is not darksouls, it doesn't play like one, doing so will result in exactly this, an underwhelming combat.

Also it's funny you mention ranged weapons being un-avoidable since you only need to side step, unlike the DkS ranged attacks from enemies that literally corrected their path mid flight to hit you.

Just remember there is a ki bar and there is a reason you can see the enemy ki bar, ki managment is a huge part of combat, yours and your enemy.

[Kalvix]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Zamus:

This is not darksouls, it doesn't play like one, doing so will result in exactly this, an underwhelming combat.

Also it's funny you mention ranged weapons being un-avoidable since you only need to side step, unlike the DkS ranged attacks from enemies that literally corrected their path mid flight to hit you.

Just remember there is a ki bar and there is a reason you can see the enemy ki bar, ki managment is a huge part of combat, yours and your enemy.

Er... are we playing the same game or have you found an easy mode somehow? sure archers you can do that at long range, all forms of gun though have no travel time and no indication of when they'll shoot so you just need to block till they shoot.

As for the Ki bar... honestly seeing the enemies bar doesn't help much as so far I've not found any reliable way of reducing it, sure theres some moves like the kick but if you get blocked you can't do "at end of combo" moves so you're stuck to just smashing on their gaurd. I use to try and get close when an opponent was low on Ki but honestly that just got me killed as by the time I get in close to hit them they're blocking so even my High Odachi stance wont get past their Ki regen, and thats when you consider some enemies don't even seem to have any negative effects to having no Ki besides perhaps some more damage,

Oh and how do you see the quest objective mid-mission? I've killed everything in this stage, got every item and it's not ending, I have no idea what it wants me to do.


Also... really I need to watch a guide on how to play? even years of experience playing similar games and many hours playing wont teach you? sounds like a very unintuative system that they should have worked on harder before release.

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

You will need to swallow your ego. The game's intuitive and works perfectly fine. It's already had a resounding success on consoles.

At this point, you will either figure it out or give up. I liked the game enough to learn everything it had to offer even though it took a long time to master its nuances.

And no, gun shots or cannons are not instant. They have a long travel time and easily avoidable path. Don't exaggerate.

[Kalvix]

Well I'm watching a guide and 10 minutes in it's nothing I didn't already know, it just seems to be proving me right really, theres no way to have fun slowing combat, you need to get in a hit then run, get in a hit then run.. for EVERY enemy.

I mean I get how some people might enjoy this 1 and run style of fighting, but I prefer combat systems that flow better, stuff like this just feels really janky

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

As stated above, everyone who knows what Nioh is and what it has to offer has already gotten more than their share out of it. Move on if it doesn't get your attention.

Nioh is first and foremost both hardcore and a test for patience if you are new. Its combat system is refined and polished, something most people expect out of Team Ninja. Not all games click right.

[Zamus]

Considering I can reflect bullets by blocking before they hit they do have travel time, they are actually slow in the first difficulty, proyectiles get speed up dramatically at higher diffculties.

Humans like you have close to no ki regen when blocking, once broken you get a huge opportunity to punish them, no regular human should survive being left out of ki and for most human bosses running out of ki should result in at least 1/3rd of their health being lost from the punish.

Yokai with no ki stagger from every single attack you do, including bosses, this is a huge window to go full on attack on them.

Your objective is marked on the minimap on top right, also pressing start will tell you what you are looking for.

The system is very intuitive the problem is those years of "experience" holding you back, it's extremelly common to see souls experts complain about the combat, while players new to this game have a way easier time, I have seen so called experts stuck on Tachibana or straight up giving up on him, while a new player got him down in about 10 tries.

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

^ what Zamus said.

Swallow your ego, be willing to persevere, experiment with different skills and keep learning.

[Kalvix]

"traverse the encroaching darkness"

Yep thats a nice clear objective... that definitely couldn't mean a billion things.

humans aren't a problem, the problem is demons as rarely do they have any negative effect from running out of Ki and rarely will ANYTHING stagger them so I'm starting to think doing away with any big weapons and staying in low stance is probably the way forward (or perhaps fill heavy armour up to nearly 100% load and just tank the hits). If they do stagger I'm not seeing it, it must be a really tiny stagger as when I started I thought it would be a good idea to attack when enemies have no Ki, but while it works on humans the big guys I hit once then they hit me back.

Honestly I'm not seeing the "intuative" at all as I've tried out multiple weapons, multiple skills, spells and ninja stuff, none of it really does anything, the only thing that works so far is the tedious "1 hit run 1 hit run" tactic, I've even tried dodging behind enemies but the homing on their attacks making it pointless as they just do a complete 180 and hit me while I'm low on Ki from getting behind them.

It would be nice if the skills had SOME use as well, right now the only ones I even get a chance to use are the L1+ ones, the rest of them you need to use at the end of a combo and as blocking stops the combo I've not got off an end of combos in hours so I've just stopped bothering with them.

Seriously can anybody give better advice than "swallow your ego its fine", because the guides are covering things I already know, theres nothing new that would make me think the combat ever flows, hell you guys aren't even saying "yes it flows" which makes me think you're basically agreeing that the combat is "1 hit run, 1 hit run", in which case I wish I hadn't bought the game as it's SO tedious, especially on bosses just slowly chipping away.


Now what would have made it much more intuative and fun would be if you could change stances more easily, having to hold R1 which also does other functions means you can't do it mid-flow you need to move bad a bit then change stance before going back in. I mean I did use the skill that lets you swap stances but as I said any end of combo skill worthless by level 70 it seems as everything blocks or hits so fast you have no time for it

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

Keep your agility below 70% at B rank.

Some attacks in certain stances and skills are better at breaking Yokai horns than others.

If you are doing a twlight mission when you don't have a clear idea of the game, don't.

Stick to a single weapon and learn its moveset.

Odachi heavy stance double quick attack has superb tracking, damage and break. Use it to punish openings. Newbie friendly.

Changing stance during ki pulse does not require movement nor holding any button.

[Zamus]

If a tiny stagger means cornering helpless bosses until their HP bar depletes then yes it is tiny.

Combat flows, or if this is clunky then whatever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4KOAFBwzcA&t

[Kalvix]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Seyren Windsor:

Keep your agility below 70% at B rank.

Some attacks in certain stances and skills are better at breaking Yokai horns than others.

If you are doing a twlight mission when you don't have a clear idea of the game, don't.

Stick to a single weapon and learn its moveset.

Odachi heavy stance double quick attack has superb tracking, damage and break. Newbie friendly.

A. I keep my agility below 30% if I can as I like to dodge, tough the random nature of the gear you get means it jumps all over.

B. Yes I noticed for example Odachi high is better at it, but again it seems random as to when it'll actually happen, even against the same enemy (just using a shrine to bring them back) I can't find a way to reliably break their horns, sometimes 1 heavy attack head on does it, sometimes they never break even if I do nothing but heavy attacks head on.

C. Already done a few Twighlight missions that are a higher level than me, they are more tedious but not hard (like the rest of the game so far).

D. I've tried to keep to the Odachi but honestly it seems like a really bad weapon, sure it can break people quicker but it's slow attack speed means it's only useful against... er.. I don't honestly know I stopped using it as everything just hits you while trying to attack unless you stand WELL back and wait for them to run into you (works on humans not Yokai as they charge in with attacks and wont get staggered so you get in 1 hit then die to the combo).

Again the main issue isn't getting through the game, it's not being bored of the tedium of taking over a minute to kill anything that isn't a basic grunt

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

A. If you wear light armor at A agility, you better know what you are doing. Most enemies will kill you in 2 hits or so.

B. There's no point using heavy attack with Odachi high stance. Its double quick attack in high stance is far superior to most weapons in damage, range and speed. You will have to learn to aim or reposition.

C. Twilights are fine. Everything dies fast if you are doing it right, even on the highest difficulty.

D. Look at Zamus's video link. Combat flows. In reality, most enemies die very fast if you have some idea of what to do.

Finally, if it still doesn't click, then time to move on.

[Kalvix]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Zamus:

If a tiny stagger means cornering helpless bosses until their HP bar depletes then yes it is tiny.

Combat flows, or if this is clunky then whatever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4KOAFBwzcA&t

er... did we watch a different video? starts against easy mobs then goes onto big mobs with lots of wait time between attacks. The only time it seems to have any flow is using the dual weapons, so I guess thats what somebody should have said, only use dual weapons (perhaps just dual swords) if you want it to flow, otherwise it's a heavies slog out match

[Seyren 'D' Windsor]

You are missing the point. Move on.