What is the point in heavy armor?

[Silamon]

Seriously wth is the point in it? Trying to beat third boss (enma something, chick in a cave) and gave up on using heavy armor after a few tries. I was shocked to see that there was basically 0 difference between the damage I took with the heavy armor and what I took with light armor. What is the point in it if it resists so little damage?
Sure I dont get staggered with every hit I take, but that doesnt seem very useful when I get 2 shotted by damn near everything.

And what kinda tips would you folks offer for this boss? I miss being able to block without being stunned every time in dark souls

[Serrassi Effect]

when i played, heavy armor wasnt all that good until you really had the stats to back it up with sets that had great bonus, so basically late game and NG+. but early on, they are just too much of a hindrance for the little benefit they offer. medium armor was the way to go for me.

as for blocking, get the samurai skill that lets you block with 0 ki damage on a perfect pulse in mid stance. really useful.

[Silamon]

Samurai skill? I only have option to put points into weapons, ninja, or jutsu, did I miss something?

[Tarradax]

Hino-Enma's damage isn't physical so armor is of relatively little importance. Get light armor and dodge, dodge, dodge for the win on that fight. Heavy armor shines against human and humanoid enemies where the damage reduction is much more noticeable.

For a "how to", I recently got back to playing Nioh after the demo for Nioh 2 got me nostalgic. You can watch me play the game poorly (specifically the Hino-Enma boss fight linked here): https://youtu.be/wivebOBwi2E?t=1628

[Serrassi Effect]

i just played the nioh 2 beta recently where samurai skills were separate but it might not be how it was in 1. just look and see if your weapons as a improved defense buff on perfect mid stance pulse.

[Just Aaron]

Heavy armor is for the toughness stat. It makes it easier to block attacks and reduces ki damage. Less ki damage means your living weapon last longer.

[montengo]

OP, the points of heavy armor are:

toughness - easier to get to soft caps - 100, 200 and 400
%damage reduction
set bonuses - probably most important point, like for example getting 100% received firearms damage is much easier with 1-2 pieces of some heavy armor sets.

and that's pretty much it.

higher defense for example found on heavy armor is useless to consider - it's flat reduction, like 3k more defense on higher difficulty for example will net you ~150 less damage taken and when mobs deal thousands damage it's not noticeable.

It's best to ignore heavy armor until probably Way of the Demon and character levels ~230 and up, where you can equip it without sacrificing much your stat investment, ki usage and mobility.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by montengo:

OP, the points of heavy armor are:

toughness - easier to get to soft caps - 100, 200 and 400
%damage reduction
set bonuses - probably most important point, like for example getting 100% received firearms damage is much easier with 1-2 pieces of some heavy armor sets.

and that's pretty much it.

higher defense for example found on heavy armor is useless to consider - it's flat reduction, like 3k more defense on higher difficulty for example will net you ~150 less damage taken and when mobs deal thousands damage it's not noticeable.

It's best to ignore heavy armor until probably Way of the Demon and character levels ~230 and up, where you can equip it without sacrificing much your stat investment, ki usage and mobility.

Quite informative, thanks.
Honestly I just like how heavy armor looks, I just realized you can change appearance for light armor into heavy armor so I don't care all that much for now. I would like to use heavy armor later though if it becomes more viable.

I have one question about stats though.

For example, I have a hat with 1% "unlimited ammo". The description says "no matter how many arrows/bullets/rounds you use, your inventory will never deplete"

When I try to use that, it is obviously doing nothing. So do you need 100% for it to activate at all? Or is it like a reduction in amount you use, like 50% would give you 2 shots per bullet?

Edit: one more question about sets. I have 2 pieces of "warrior of the west", equipping them both does not enable any of the stats though. Do you need a complete set to get any benefit out of it at all?

[montengo]

Originally posted by Tarradax:

For a "how to", I recently got back to playing Nioh after the demo for Nioh 2 got me nostalgic. You can watch me play the game poorly (specifically the Hino-Enma boss fight linked here): https://youtu.be/wivebOBwi2E?t=1628

was interesting to watch - I had thoughts the way you played was purposely pretentious in some places, like you tried hard to recreate your first time blind playthrough - for example staying in mid stance and only on rare occasions going into high stance (felt like your muscle memory betrayed your attempt passing as a new player) - I'm not saying this is what you did, I'm saying I had those thoughts.
And just a tip - archer armor pieces found on first attempt at this mission and paralysis accessory will make boss attempt easier. Look at effects of those dev placed items.

[montengo]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Honestly I just like how heavy armor looks, I just realized you can change appearance for light armor into heavy armor so I don't care all that much for now. I would like to use heavy armor later though if it becomes more viable.

yeah, refashion is nice. I now normally go for ridiculous mismatch in appearance and colors look - it's an entertainment for me to control a character dressed like a clown.

I have one question about stats though.

For example, I have a hat with 1% "unlimited ammo". The description says "no matter how many arrows/bullets/rounds you use, your inventory will never deplete"

When I try to use that, it is obviously doing nothing. So do you need 100% for it to activate at all? Or is it like a reduction in amount you use, like 50% would give you 2 shots per bullet?

Edit: one more question about sets. I have 2 pieces of "warrior of the west", equipping them both does not enable any of the stats though. Do you need a complete set to get any benefit out of it at all?

err... few points first.
these are called "effects". stats are body, heart, stamina skill … etc - things you up at the shrine when leveled.
*descriptions in this game are very imprecise - my take on why - bad / poor translation. Some effects even do opposite of what it says they do. Until you get used to this and can read between the lines, do your own tests and / or crosscheck your finding with Intertubes. reddit is a good place.

*this specific effect is a chance. 1% chance to not use ammo. No way to get this to 100%: useless effect to have. You might get lucky with 100% arrows though - if you'll get a very rare bow drop much later in Abyss.

* warrior of the west - make sure you meet the stats requirements to wear the set - look at the bottom when looking at armor item - it should tell you - need strength and stamina at 9 for example.

My take on stat points placement for new / low level characters:
1. spirit to 10-11 until you unlock all your guardian spirit bonusses - this will help you the most at this point in game.
2. onmyo to get skill points - for elemental talisman of choice (water is good at low levels) and eventually to 10, then 15 and by 4th region to 20 to unlock dojos
3. ninjutsu to get skill points for backstab after first mission and then same as onmyo placing points in passives for less ki usage and run speed.
4. skill - more skills per point investment
5. heart to 10
6. whatever stats requirement for armor you wish to wear
…..
unless it was in 6. body, strength to 10

your priorities effects on items at low levels should be: more ki / run speed, stay at agility A and.... have lower than 10kg overall load (this is my preference)

[Silamon]

I managed to beat Hino enma that time, thanks to putting a couple points in magic at your suggestion. Guardian Spirit talisman was a godsend, knocked her down so I could just wail on her, dodge the grab when she got up and wail on her some more.

Thank you for the advice folks.

[Tarradax]

Originally posted by montengo:

Originally posted by Tarradax:

For a "how to", I recently got back to playing Nioh after the demo for Nioh 2 got me nostalgic. You can watch me play the game poorly (specifically the Hino-Enma boss fight linked here): https://youtu.be/wivebOBwi2E?t=1628

was interesting to watch - I had thoughts the way you played was purposely pretentious in some places, like you tried hard to recreate your first time blind playthrough - for example staying in mid stance and only on rare occasions going into high stance (felt like your muscle memory betrayed your attempt passing as a new player) - I'm not saying this is what you did, I'm saying I had those thoughts.
And just a tip - archer armor pieces found on first attempt at this mission and paralysis accessory will make boss attempt easier. Look at effects of those dev placed items.

Interesting feedback. I'll rewatch my recording and see if I get the same vibe - This wasn't my intention, though. I'm just breezing through the game without trying too much because it's just that easy until NG++. It's also why I don't bother swapping gear or investing Amrita mid-mission, there's really no point in wasting time on it when I can do it off-screen between missions and not bore everyone with 10 minutes of dismantling stuff or raising my stats a couple points.

[Averagedog]

If you REALLY want to commit to heavy armor, use the antiparalytic needle as well if you can't dodge her paralysis attacks.

[Harukage]

Hino-enma is super easy in heavy armor.
Just activate your living weapon near her to stagger her out of energy and then mash button until she is dead. You might want to damage her a bit before that.
All of her parallytic atacks are easy to read and can be dodged by strafing fast enough to side.
All of her normal combos are also easy to read and can be evaded by runing backwards, and have decent windows for you to hit her afterwards.
Bring some throwing knives for when she is trying to fly. Even a single shuriken will knock her out of air and leave vulnerable for a time.
All in all YOU DO NOT EVEN NEED TO DODGE OR BLOCK in that fight.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Hino-enma is super easy in heavy armor.
Just activate your living weapon near her to stagger her out of energy and then mash button until she is dead. You might want to damage her a bit before that.
All of her parallytic atacks are easy to read and can be dodged by strafing fast enough to side.
All of her normal combos are also easy to read and can be evaded by runing backwards, and have decent windows for you to hit her afterwards.
Bring some throwing knives for when she is trying to fly. Even a single shuriken will knock her out of air and leave vulnerable for a time.
All in all YOU DO NOT EVEN NEED TO DODGE OR BLOCK in that fight.

I am quite glad that it is easy for you to avoid the attacks. Unfortunately it was not as easy for me, hence my posting this thread. The paralysis was not the problem beyond the first attempt, I put on paralysis defense armor after the first try. I always played a heavy character in dark souls that focused on blocking, so I am not exactly very good at dodging attacks, and blocking on this game just leaves you stun locked apparently.

Thankfully there are folks here that offered good advice, such as investing stats into magic and spirit and focusing on effects that improve ki. I beat the boss far more easily when I had access to elemental and guardian spirit talismans. I also killed the next couple bosses far more easily thanks to that knowledge.

[Tarradax]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Harukage:

Hino-enma is super easy in heavy armor.
Just activate your living weapon near her to stagger her out of energy and then mash button until she is dead. You might want to damage her a bit before that.
All of her parallytic atacks are easy to read and can be dodged by strafing fast enough to side.
All of her normal combos are also easy to read and can be evaded by runing backwards, and have decent windows for you to hit her afterwards.
Bring some throwing knives for when she is trying to fly. Even a single shuriken will knock her out of air and leave vulnerable for a time.
All in all YOU DO NOT EVEN NEED TO DODGE OR BLOCK in that fight.

I am quite glad that it is easy for you to avoid the attacks. Unfortunately it was not as easy for me, hence my posting this thread. The paralysis was not the problem beyond the first attempt, I put on paralysis defense armor after the first try. I always played a heavy character in dark souls that focused on blocking, so I am not exactly very good at dodging attacks, and blocking on this game just leaves you stun locked apparently.

Thankfully there are folks here that offered good advice, such as investing stats into magic and spirit and focusing on effects that improve ki. I beat the boss far more easily when I had access to elemental and guardian spirit talismans. I also killed the next couple bosses far more easily thanks to that knowledge.

See, that's the beauty of it. You can play however you want. I personally lean towards light armor and dodge/parry but if you found your comfort zone with magic and a big pool of Ki, it's just as good as long as it works for you.

Also because she popped up as a Twilight mission again, I actually paid some attention to the fight and did this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyoe8Shg60o