I want to inform people, Nioh isn't a Souls-like

[Royta15]

tl;dr: game is more based on offense, less bait-punish, more unfair in terms of difficulty (classic Team Ninja style), no lore for those interested in that etc.

The big post: One of the bigger flaws in the most modern reviews and quick-get-viewers videos was that this title got the Souls-like stamp put on. And this is true, but only on a surface level. The game includes bonfires (shrines), bloodstains( guardian spirits) and stamina(ki), but the similarities end there (unless we count 'you hit things with medival weapons' too, but we're not like that, are we?).

I'm making this post to prevent people from going in with a Souls mindset and getting disappointed, but instead going in with an open mind and finding a new game to love, as there is a lot to love in Nioh. I'll now notes some things that might scare you off or might make you feel like this isn't a Souls game when booting up.

* there is no lore, the game takes a very straightforward approach in terms of storytelling. The story does have more value if you know your Japanese history, but it really ends there.

* combat is based on offensive, and I mean even more than what Bloodborne tried. If you play in a style of waiting for an enemy to open himself up you'll find yourself playing a very boring experience as enemies have a ton of safe moves and cancels at their disposal. Instead combat rewards agression, and it does this in two ways. First is the Ki-pulse, tapping a specific button at the right time after a combo will give you a buff and return Ki to you, allowing you to keep attacking. Second is its "Stance" system, in which each weapon has three stances you can be in (low, mid, high) each with a unique moveset and skills. The game rewards you combining these two in what's called Fluxing, if you switch stances during a ki-pulse you regain Ki in vast amounts.
I found that a lot of new players in Nioh try to play the bait-and-punish game, only to get mauled or faced with dealing low-damage. You really need to press the attack and only dodge when needed to survive; and even then a parry will suffice most of the times. So generally combat is a mixture of you switching weapons and stances constantly to keep your flow of Ki high.
Example of high quality combat by XHLGladiator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4KOAFBwzcA

* the game is Team Ninja difficult. A lot of players hopped onto Nioh expecting Souls-style difficulty - easy if you know what you're doing and hard if you rush and don't pay attention. Nioh on the otherhand handles like older Gaiden games of Team Ninja. Anyone who has played Ninja Gaiden 2 or, sadly, Ninja Gaiden 3, will know what I mean. They like to stack the deck against you. In the easier earlier missions you'll be able to keep fights to you versus maybe one or two guys. In the end game you're looking at 6+ enemies who will gang up on you and dual bosses who have no qualms with locking you down and murdering you. There will be fights where bosses will hyper-armor through all you do with monsterous tracking, fights where you feel the game killed you instead of you making a mistake - and that's fine as long as you know this going in. One of the earlier bosses, Hino-Enma, is a big road block for a lot of 'soulsvets' going in as she's really geared to punish that defensive style of play.

* that said, the game is as hard as you make it. Due to the Diablo styled loot, tons of other factors (like the 30+ spirit guardians, weapons, skills, spells etc) the system can be broken. You can become immortal while instant-killing all there is on the highest difficulty setting. Some people will note "Ah, kind of like magic in Demon's Souls or Faith in Dark Souls II's original release". No, worse.

* there are only a few weapons, but each has an extensive moveset like action games of the previous generation. You have a Katana, Dual Katana, Kusarigama, Axe/Hammer, Spear, Odachi (DLC) and Tonfa (DLC). Each weapon has its own strengths and weaknesses (though the spear is generally considered the best).

* you can co-op the whole game easily via a menu after you've beaten the tutorial mission, this was originally not the case but fixed in a patch.

Personally, as an action game fan first, I have to note that this is by far my favorite title to come out this generation. Its combat is a breath of fresh air in a generation halted by slowly recovering staminabars and bait-and-punish gameplay, but I really wished to prevent the whole hate-wave that the game received at the start from happening again. If you're a Soulsvet, know that the experience you gained in that series will only hurt you here. Go in with a fresh mindset though, and you might find a new passion :)

[Zyrconia]

I never played a Ninja Gaiden game but I can tell you for a fact that Nioh is not Souls!

But it can feel like it! If you wish it to!

Nioh is very flexible in its combat. You can approach it as you wish.

You can play super slow, tactically engaging one enemy at a time, blocking a lot and only using basic attacks and you will do fine. In Nioh you have stances and in high stance, block is ♥♥♥♥, in mid stance block is ok to save your skin most of the time, but if you go block heavy, you need low stance.

If you keep this up, but also add a combo or two, you can play Nioh beginning to end like a normal Souls game and it will feel great!

This is how I first started, but eventually I started to do a 180: I purposefully ran in the middle of large crowds, playing as aggressive as possible, engaging them all at once. That is another style that is viable. Nioh, like Souls, doesn't like sloppy play. but it sure as hell loves aggressive play!

Finally, you can start using heavy combos. Most enemies have an inflated health pool, so fighting them straight on functions decently, but exploring their weak point will probably one shot them. You need to smash the horns of demons and then unleash hell, parry humans, drain the stamina of skeletons, etc.

You can go into heavy Ki Pulse or Flux, or ignore it, like I did. Even after 200 hours I just can't get used to KI pulsing. It is not something you need for light weapons, maybe that's the reason. Using a heavy axe I ki pulse more often, but just can't seem to remember or need it for dual swords.

[gackie]

The devs were comparing the game to Souls during development though. And regardless of what anyone thinks, the game's advertising definitely piggybacked off of Souls and many other series.

[Richter Belmont]

Exactly. It plays a lot more like an actual stylish action game than dark souls or whatever.

[Frijolito]

nothing is like dark souls

[Royta15]

Origineel geplaatst door Hat Skeleton!:

The devs were comparing the game to Souls during development though. And regardless of what anyone thinks, the game's advertising definitely piggybacked off of Souls and many other series.

Marketing, and what it actually is, are two different things. It is smart to market it like Souls, as it will lure in a big consumer base. Make no mistake though, this is a completely different beast.

Origineel geplaatst door ♂ＵＨ♂ＨＵＨ♂:

nothing is like dark souls

Thankfully, no it isn't. Not saying Souls is bad, but change and variation is good.

Origineel geplaatst door Quwrof Wrlccywrlir:

Exactly. It plays a lot more like an actual stylish action game than dark souls or whatever.

This!

[Rin D. Pryde]

I'm at loss. Either OP is dumb or people on the internets are dumb. Why is it not like souls? It's a dark medieval hardcore slasher. Not many of those these days, so people who like Soulsborne might very well like this one. Or someone is really that thick and expecting this to be a carbon copy of souls' mechanics down to the letter?

PS. I'm pretty excited personally. This game looks exactly like my (broken) expectations when I created dex build in DS for the first time xD

[Apo[C]]

for me it's more like onimusha series mixed with souls series

[RiO]

Origineel geplaatst door Rin D. Pryde:

I'm at loss. Either OP is dumb or people on the internets are dumb. Why is it not like souls? It's a dark medieval hardcore slasher. Not many of those these days, so people who like Soulsborne might very well like this one. Or someone is really that thick and expecting this to be a carbon copy of souls' mechanics down to the letter?

PS. I'm pretty excited personally. This game looks exactly like my (broken) expectations when I created dex build in DS for the first time xD

What defines the game? The theming and presentation; or the actual gameplay?
The theming and general atmosphere borrows from a Souls game -- though the game's setting is one of feudal Japan, not western medieval times, mind you. But, the gameplay is very different from Souls.

And for the record: Souls games are not part of the fast-paced spectacle slasher genre. If you attempt to play them as such, you tend to end up getting burned very, very quickly.

[Rin D. Pryde]

Origineel geplaatst door RiO:

And for the record: Souls games are not part of the fast-paced spectacle slasher genre. If you attempt to play them as such, you tend to end up getting burned very, very quickly.

Let me guess — you play with a shield and don't invade much? ;)

[Samurai]

There are too much similarities to completely dismiss it as not being soul esque. It's different of course but it's painfully obvious where they got their inspirations for Nioh.

Stamina management and armor weight classes are not a surface level similarity neither is the learning curve and difficulty. I also don't see why it seems to be so important to anyone to make such a topic.

The "stamp" is entirely deserved and it's also not a problem or an offense. smh

[puppet74]

This games ninja gaiden 75% dark souls 25% around that. It defo has alot to do with each game. I wouldnt say its nothing like dark souls but it is alot like ninja gaiden. It also has alot of diablo in it when it comes to loot and gearing up, crafting , farming ect ect. Either way its a fantastic game:P

[Zyrconia]

Origineel geplaatst door Rin D. Pryde:

I'm at loss. Either OP is dumb or people on the internets are dumb. Why is it not like souls? It's a dark medieval hardcore slasher. Not many of those these days, so people who like Soulsborne might very well like this one. Or someone is really that thick and expecting this to be a carbon copy of souls' mechanics down to the letter?

PS. I'm pretty excited personally. This game looks exactly like my (broken) expectations when I created dex build in DS for the first time xD

The timeline and first level are medieval. The rest of it is not what people think of when thinking of medieval. It is not knights and castles like DS. It is samurai and temples. Except for the first level, it is all Japanese. Extremely Japanese. This has to be one of the most Japanese mainstream games ever. More Japanese than Persona. You won't have an idea who the people in the cut-scenes are without a bit of familiarity with Japanese history.

So the setting is not like DS.

The atmosphere and world building aren't at all like DS. Nioh has tons of explicit story, cutscenes, characters and also a lot of levity, even amidst the backdrop of war. DS is about the final moments of a dying world inhabited by undead and a mysterious story, Nioh is about the end of a particularity bloody period in real life history followed by peace and a giant power fantasy where your character is immensely powerful.

So not like DS at all.

The combat can be like DS but is so much more. When played at high skill and medium gear, it is like a light spectacle fighter, with a lot of combos, even some juggles. When played with the highest level of gear available, you one shot even end-game bosses.

So not at all like DS, where diminishing returns always ensure you have predictable damage.

So again, what is like DS?

It is a different game that is so flexible that it can fill the same niche as DS did, but it is not the same.

Except for the clever marketing move, telling people this is DS.

[puppet74]

There are ds elements though, even if its minor. When most people think of or asked to describe a ds mechanic they will tell you about the soul mechanic and how when you die you have to run back and get your souls back. This is the same for nioh and why it got a "souls like" tagged to it.
You also get punished for mistakes and even more so late game, which again is liek dark souls.
It can be a very hard game at times and rewards not giving up and learning enermy attacks, just like souls games.
At a very basic game play level it has alot of things going on that was inspired by the souls games. That is as far as it goes though, after that it really is its own game and doesnt try and stand itsself up by copying souls games. It actually , to me anyway is its stregnth, it feels like a breath of fresh air after playing souls games for years. You have alot more diversity in your character , builds and equipment. Also if your willing to get into the story, and look into some of the characters that star in the story, you might even learn some really cool interesting japanese history which , imbh adds alot to the game.
Also if you love loot games , nioh is up there with the best of them. Another thing that really helps give it a fresh feel after souls games.

[OwO Enjoyer]

Origineel geplaatst door puppet74:

There are ds elements though, even if its minor. When most people think of or asked to describe a ds mechanic they will tell you about the soul mechanic and how when you die you have to run back and get your souls back. This is the same for nioh and why it got a "souls like" tagged to it.
You also get punished for mistakes and even more so late game, which again is liek dark souls.
It can be a very hard game at times and rewards not giving up and learning enermy attacks, just like souls games.
At a very basic game play level it has alot of things going on that was inspired by the souls games. That is as far as it goes though, after that it really is its own game and doesnt try and stand itsself up by copying souls games. It actually , to me anyway is its stregnth, it feels like a breath of fresh air after playing souls games for years. You have alot more diversity in your character , builds and equipment. Also if your willing to get into the story, and look into some of the characters that star in the story, you might even learn some really cool interesting japanese history which , imbh adds alot to the game.
Also if you love loot games , nioh is up there with the best of them. Another thing that really helps give it a fresh feel after souls games.

people who say dark souls punishes you for mistakes probably never level up, lioke serously even on ng+7 u can usually tank 2-3 hits on softcap vit with medium armor. In nioh even on ng u die super fast, and on in the later ngs u straight out get killed in a hit

[RiO]

Origineel geplaatst door Rin D. Pryde:

Origineel geplaatst door RiO:

And for the record: Souls games are not part of the fast-paced spectacle slasher genre. If you attempt to play them as such, you tend to end up getting burned very, very quickly.

Let me guess — you play with a shield and don't invade much? ;)

Let me guess — you consider the end-game run by a vocal minority that does nothing but consistently annoy the playerbase at large with invasions as the entire game?

Are you familiar with the fact that a significant portion of Souls players even plays offline specifically because they don't want to deal with invasions by the top 1 percentile that runs OP builds which will murder anyone just starting out at the game.


For the majority of normal players, dodge-builds and over-aggroing is not the way Souls is played.