Unfair.

[Baage]

Trust me. I love hard games. The problem is that this game is unfair. For example when you are fighting those demons, they instantly turn around when you are behind them and attack exactly where you are. This is unavoidable and thats one of the many things that makes this game more unfair than difficult.

[Kaizen]

..and back on the topic of cheese, if you can sit here with a straight face and tell me the 360 degrees insta-100% accurate tracking even in mid-air after attacks have been started, no i-frames on quick-troll scrolls, auto-homing projectiles, wonky ass, inconsistent hitboxes, trollish aggro, always have ki even after breaking it, being able to get out of my final blow/grapple after I've started the animation, the list goes on, isn't cheese as it gets.... then I have no business being in this discussion with you

[Zamus]

Originally posted by Lo Wang:

..and back on the topic of cheese, if you can sit here with a straight face and tell me the 360 degrees insta-100% accurate tracking even in mid-air after attacks have been started, no i-frames on quick-troll scrolls, auto-homing projectiles, wonky ass, inconsistent hitboxes, trollish aggro, always have ki even after breaking it, being able to get out of my final blow/grapple after I've started the animation, the list goes on, isn't cheese as it gets.... then I have no business being in this discussion with you

It isn't cheese.

Enemies in this game have way less tracking than DkS bosses, quick change scrolls are fine they are a second chance not a guranteed I'm gonna live buff works about 90% of the time for me and it beats the alternative of straight up dying, enemies never recover ki after being exausthed never, show me a video of an enemy already panting for air and recovering ki, the reason they an get away is becaus the inital hit that triggers the grapple is slow, if you take some time to reach them they will recover, if you haven't noticed the same applies to you, if you have faster recovery out of ki no enemy in the game can grapple you because you recover faster than the animation

Your case for Sanada is your only valid complain and this is because the game network is crap, Jin also does this, he throws one fireball to each character (you can only see the one thrown at you) regardless of who he is facing

[Kaizen]

Originally posted by Zamus:

Originally posted by Lo Wang:

..and back on the topic of cheese, if you can sit here with a straight face and tell me the 360 degrees insta-100% accurate tracking even in mid-air after attacks have been started, no i-frames on quick-troll scrolls, auto-homing projectiles, wonky ass, inconsistent hitboxes, trollish aggro, always have ki even after breaking it, being able to get out of my final blow/grapple after I've started the animation, the list goes on, isn't cheese as it gets.... then I have no business being in this discussion with you

It isn't cheese.

Enemies in this game have way less tracking than DkS bosses, quick change scrolls are fine they are a second chance not a guranteed I'm gonna live buff works about 90% of the time for me and it beats the alternative of straight up dying, enemies never recover ki after being exausthed never, show me a video of an enemy already panting for air and recovering ki, the reason they an get away is becaus the inital hit that triggers the grapple is slow, if you take some time to reach them they will recover, if you haven't noticed the same applies to you, if you have faster recovery out of ki no enemy in the game can grapple you because you recover faster than the animation

Your case for Sanada is your only valid complain and this is because the game network is crap, Jin also does this, he throws one fireball to each character (you can only see the one thrown at you) regardless of who he is facing

Nope, disagree 100%. Souls has much less annoying insta tracking than Nioh, even the Bloodborne DLC tracking wasn't near as bad or as accurate and didn't require last mililsecond dodges to be able to dodge.
Quick-troll scrolls are just that. Troll items. Not gonna argue that's how I feel. They need enough i-frames to guarantee at least one dodge before dying and especially no dying in the air before you even land.
Tachi always has ki I have no idea what you're talking about, and he has gotten out of my grapple and final blows several times when the reticule was red, after I started the animation.. he just rolls right out of it. That is not the same as me not being fast enough, I know the difference. Okatsu is another one with very wonky final blow registration. Sometimes the reticule won't even turn red on her when she's down, or it just doesn't trigger period.

[Witcher]

I don't believe using skills, weapons, etc provided in game is cheesing. Why did TN/KT develop these into the game if not to balance the level of difficulties they have factored in-game?

I haven't played any DS or other action/arcade RPG, so can't compare Nioh to any of them but do you have as many players crying about the bosses being so difficult?

[awanderingswordsman]

Quick change has i-frames until you hit the ground OR take an action. If you try to attack immediately after quick change pops you waste the i-frames it gives you. Of course you can end up getting instakilled right as you hit the ground but quick change is a second chance mechanic, it will only come into play if you already messed up.

People were arguing that the game was unfair, not that it was cheesy. These are two entirely different things. Now, I haven't done a lot of co-op, maybe it is actually inconsistent and truly unfair, I do not know. I'm talking entirely about solo play.

Moves with a high degree of tracking are not even cheesy. You have a block button, you have i-frames on your dodge. This is not the monster hunter system where you actually have to get out of the way, it's designed around utilizing i-frames and blocking.

If you want to be technical this game is very unfair. In the players favor though. You have unlimted attempts and a human brain not limited to set decision trees. The computer has none of this and frankly no way to even compete with those aspects. Simply by being human, you are always at a MASSIVE advantage over the AI.

I also don't understand this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ "you don't have the stuff you need the first time around". Then how did anyone ever get past it huh? I've played through most of the game a second time with a friend on a fresh character and the beginning is soooo much easier than later game states. You really only need to be armed with knowledge of how the enemies work to absolutely dumpster the first 3 difficulties even with below par equipment.

I did not find any hitboxes to be inconsistent and most of them were extremely accurate to the model as well. Can't remember a time where an enemy got out of my grapples or final blow mid attack, that sounds like a glitch. Most bosses also have 100% everlasting ki, something even the player can get, it's completely consistent and predictable in it's function.

[Kaizen]

Quick change does not have i-frames until you hit the ground, I've been blasted out of the air so many times I can't even count that high, after pressing nothing. Why are you even arguing that fact?

You didn't either read what I wrote about having things you need or you just conveniently omitted part of it to fit your agenda.
Hitboxes are wonky as hell, now you're just being 'that guy'

[Zamus]

Originally posted by Lo Wang:

Tachi always has ki I have no idea what you're talking about, and he has gotten out of my grapple and final blows several times when the reticule was red, after I started the animation.. he just rolls right out of it. That is not the same as me not being fast enough, I know the difference. Okatsu is another one with very wonky final blow registration. Sometimes the reticule won't even turn red on her when she's down, or it just doesn't trigger period.

He doesn't, I use tonfas, I literally break his Ki about 6 to 8 times per fight I do this to all humans, I grapple them every single one of those, I never have had issues, the red reticule can mess up and it does not mean your grapple or finishing blow will be succesful, as I said in particlar grapples have a very slow starting animation if you do not initiate the grapple shortly after they run out of ki they will recover and evade, the only enemy that get's away from finishing blow is the spear master because he sometimes just stands up instantly but aside from that no other human can do that, you can however initate the ground stab farm from them and stab the ground.

[Witcher]

Originally posted by Zamus:

I use tonfas, I literally break his Ki about 6 to 8 times per fight I do this to all humans, I grapple them every single one of those,

Have you managed to grapple Obsidian Samurai or Anna (Oda's missus)?

[Kaizen]

So I guess the game you're playing and the game I'm playing are different games.
That or you're simply not understanding me. Tachi has gotten OUT of my grapple several times, after the animation was started. This has happend both with Tonfa and Katana, neither of which has a slow staring animation. The game is simply wonky in its mechanics. You will find no hitbox porn in Nioh.
I already stated it was different than me not being fast enough, ,I know the difference as I have experienced that as well.

[Zamus]

Originally posted by Witcher in Japan:

Originally posted by Zamus:

I use tonfas, I literally break his Ki about 6 to 8 times per fight I do this to all humans, I grapple them every single one of those,

Have you managed to grapple Obsidian Samurai or Anna (Oda's missus)?

Obsidian samurai yes, I think you mean Elsa, but no she is technically a Yokai so she can't be grappled.

[Yian Yan]

Which enemies have 100% everlasting Ki? Exactly? I can't really think of a single one. Tachibana does not have this. If he did you would be unable to knock him down ever. You can. He just disobeys the rules of humans and has true hyper armor for some of his attacks. Once he initiates them you cannot knock him out of them with standard attacks until he is out of his hyper armor state. It's not toughness, it's not him enduring certain hits when he swings as it is only for some of his attacks. It's pretty consistent but it's also pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Iai, tiger sprint, leaping strike, and the start of his crazy swinging technique (forget the name for the player equivalent). If you hit him at those points, even knock him out of ki, he will not give a crap. On the Iai it is particularly egregious as it begins the moment he thinks to do it and until his very next action allowing him to hyper armor chain three Iais. Hit him while he's attacking otherwise? You can stagger him and even knock him out of his ki and into a recovery state.

[Zamus]

Originally posted by Lo Wang:

So I guess the game you're playing and the game I'm playing are different games.
That or you're simply not understanding me. Tachi has gotten OUT of my grapple several times, after the animation was started

I have never seen this and would need video to believe you, I can direct you to pretty much every single video since the game released of a person that know what he is doing and none of the bosses escaping from the grapple.

[awanderingswordsman]

Everlasting ki means that they can perform actions even at zero ki as long as they aren't ki broken. It has nothing to do with knocking them out of ki. Pretty sure all the human bosses have 100% everlasting ki.

I've fought all the human bosses a lot, as long as the grapple connects it will finish. I've had zero times where this failed to be the case. They can avoid it if they recover before your grapple lands but you are saying that isn't happenign so either you are wrong or you have a defective copy or something.

I don't know what to tell you about quick change man. I've played this game for a good amount of time and thats how it works. You only get swatted out of the air if you perform an action. I've had it popped in a barrage of attacks and fallen straight through them many times.

Also it's Yuki-Onna (snow-woman). Her actual name being lady no. As mentioned she is treated as a yokai boss and cannot be grappled.

As for hitboxes they are better than pretty much every competitor. They aren't always on model but they are close. No plessy hipchecks in this one. I was legitmately impressed with how many attacks can be just barely avoided without dodging by being just at the edge of the model. The big skeleton boss guy strikes me as an exception, he was pretty crap and his stomp hitbox and pivoting were really poorly handled.

[Kaizen]

Not really concerned whether you believe me or not, what I'm telling you is that the game isn't perfect like you think it is and definitely has some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ involved.
Lot of people play internet tough guy when it comes to hard games to give themselves some kind of strange validation attempts with random strangers on a forum. Record videos of successes and good runs and post them on youtube, but never share their screaming and yelling and cursing the world when things don't go well.. I'm not those people, I call things what they are.
Nioh is a game filled with cheese and wonky mechanics, it's a good game, lot of content and depth but it is not perfect in any way.
Either way, we've gone from unfair to cheese to wonky mechanics, which are all different things.

[Zamus]

Originally posted by Lo Wang:

Not really concerned whether you believe me or not, what I'm telling you is that the game isn't perfect like you think it is and definitely has some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ involved.

I never said the game was perfect, just that none of your complains was one of the several wrong things this game has, I didn't question your hit boxes because some of them are really bad, Toad down spear and Gara foot stomps being the worst offenders.

The game is broken that is not into question, but as awanderingswordsman pointed out is heavily inclined in the players favor, LW being by far the most broken mechanic.