I am done with this game now!

[MooN]

After release i played and enjoyed the Story (even it was a bit short).... later i had this xenon bug and decided to stop the game. A few months later and with release 1.3 i decided to start a new game without the story.... as this was not available i used the registry change to get this available.... so i played well build up my imperium but after 60 or 70 hours and a complex with almost 100 factories and almost all sectors visited i still not found the HUB....

So i decided to start again in story mode.... few hours later story was done, settled my home sector near the Goner and after bulding up the complex and the jump gate all was fine until a Xenon K and lots of smaller Xenon attacked my home sector. I only had my Nemesis...

I destroyed the smaller xenon but unable to do anything agains the Xenon K. Searched for Lasertowers... found in total 2 in the complete universe.... so quickly build up 2 factories in my complex (after i let the K following me far away in my home sector first)... then realized... this would take days to get enough lastertowers!

So i decided to run an attack with my Nemesis against the Xenon K. The fight was going on for round 1 hour... load/save/get destroyed... after i reduced the K to 10% hull i was confused to get the message my stations attacked again... looked on the sector map and found several xenon ships... as i was still in the fight i continued here to get the K down.

Finally David against Goliath succeeded... that was great and i was so happy and thought now quickly repair the Nemesis and then kill the rest of the xenons... then i was shocked.... the Xenon Fleet was again a Xenon K and some smaller ships... they almost destroyed my HQ (Hull at 30%) as well as my Complex with round 30 Stations (Hull at 30% too).... so fighting another time against the K for more than 1 hour... were my important stations almost dead was too much.... thats it for me with this game. :-(

[DanKara]

Why give up?
You survived! No station (from the complex) is lost ... and killed not only one but two K with just that Nemesis.
Reifeprüfung bestanden! Nordlichter hält halt keiner auf!


You could try loading an earlier save from before the first Xenon visited your home ... might be they will never come to you proceeding from this savefile (there is some randomnes to their appearance...)

And it is possible to find the HUB with the search script 'All Seeing Eye'. By unveiling the universe map you probably will see where the HUB-gates are connected to.

[That guy with the Spoon]

the frustration comes from the endless hull wailing that you need to do since ap.

1 hr for a K in a Nemesis is in no way over exaggerated. even a hyperion would wail for easily 10 mins if not more if you have to kite missles.

i wonder why you get K's? i thought the xenon stream was bound to the players combat rank? does this only apply if you own the sector or did the op do nothing else but do assassination missions as a main way of earning credits?

i only saw Q's and J's so far in my claimed sector.

[changtau2005]

Sorry to hear that. It always sucks to lose hours of progress like that. If this is your first X3 game you did pretty well already.

I'm not sure where you chose to deploy your HQ in, but as long as you don't completely lose it, you're fine. That's the only thing that's irreplaceable in an X3 game. The hub isn't really important in Farnham's Legend.

Hire or buy a TL, dock with your HQ and dump all its wares into space. Then pack it up and jump away and redeploy it, preferably somewhere real deep in friendly space with good asteroids, like PTNI HQ / Akeela's Beacon / Spring of Belief / Barren Shores or something. You've surveyed over 100 systems so you should have so many options to relocate to. Try Weaver's Tempest or around Loomankstrat's if you're playing pirate. Xenon don't loot wares so you can go back and salvage your stuff later. If you had the money to deploy 100 stations, it shouldn't be that hard to get a core 10 stations going again even if you lose every other station. You can relocate it again and build your real base once you get your starter base up.

It sounds like you overextended yourself on expansion and didn't put enough money in defenses. On top of lasertowers, try buying an M2 from a friendly faction. If your rep is too low, just grab two dozen M6+ and fill them with plasmas. Lasertowers are like 2 mil a pop, if I remember correctly? Or free if you make them yourself. Drop a hundred or more behind a gate. Once they align properly, nothing gets through unless you piss off the system defense force. Should be chicken change if you had a 100-station complex going.

[MooN]

So in short i played the X Series since the beginning (X-BTF) and all other releases even some mods to just enjoy this further. Just too old or not willing enough for X4 and the part before.... was no longer my game here.

Here a Screenshot i just shared with the 2 K´s in my Home Sector (Harmonische Ewigkeit Beta)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2853055653

@DanKara.... i played X3:FL now 3 times always from 0... and if games end like this... its so frustrating for all the hours spend to build up to this level. Bin zwar begeistert das ich die K mit dem Nemesis gepackt habe, aber als da noch eine kam... war der Frust Mega.

@That Guy With The Spoon.... checked my combat rank "Staffelkomandant 53%"... not sure if this is good or bad. Played a few defense missions for stations to get Agents... but never attacked any Sector or Station etc.

@changtau2005.... In this 3rd trial i spend 5 days and 20 hours ingame but my focus was on production and support for the HQ to build ships and stations. Pack and relocate to a new Sector is not an option... this is already a nice one where i build my own Jumpgate etc. Also moving 38 Stations again will take forever and risky as well with the 2 Xenon K in the sector. Also if i lost my HQ (dont expect i can move this from earlier save as this is full of equipment.... i do not even have the transporters needed to store the goods yet). So all is only more work and so frustrating as i have not expected to get attacked by Xenons so massiv.

[tablebay]

Hello MooN,

A. Problem
I understand your frustration, but giving up playing X3 FL completely seems somewhat premature. In layman's terms 'not all is lost', and you still have a good solid chance to keep your empire-in-building up and running.
Especially when you claim that:
(a) in your 1st trial (60-70 hrs play) to have a complex of nearly 100 factories; and
(b) in your 3rd trial to focus on building factories and ships with your PHQ.

B. Solution
1. Strategic approach
These accumulated resources of yours either in your 1st or in your 3rd trial should be turned to build up a more robust defence capability to counter the recurring Xenon mini-invasions on your claimed home sector.

This means focusing on:
1.1 Deploying your PHQ and/or your complex not farther than 25 kms from the sector gate/TOA, for quicker access to your ships and friendly traders; and
1.2 Building up and deploying an advanced satellite chain (NOT the in-game early warning system) covering your own sectors areas from the gates/TOAs to your PHQ/ complex in those sectors.
1.3 Building/ buying and upgrading to L-XXL size rocket (especially Hurricane, Hornet, Disruptor) production factories; and
1.4 Building/ buying AND properly outkitting (PPC, IBL, AND buying Fusion Beam Cannons from black market)
(a) an M7 (Tiger), and
(b) an M2/ M2+ (preferably a Pteranodon, but Titan or Odysseus would do as well).
Outkit your Tiger and Pteranodon with Fusion Beam Cannons in the right turrets (turret cmd Attack My Target).

2. Operational and tactical approach
Based on points B. 1.1-1.4 above, you'll have ALL the necessary and sufficient tools for BOTH protecting and upkeeping your expanding empire.

2.1 The properly deployed advanced staellite chain will give you a sufficient early warning of any spawned Xenon mini invasion in your sectors (see B. 1.1-1.2).
2.2 Deploy your M7 Tiger on patrol in your claimed sector above Harmony of Perpetuity, OR put her in a standby position not farher than 25-30 kms from the sector gate/TOA.
This enables your Tiger not only to draw most of the smaller Xenon ships away from the Xenon capital ships, but also to escape from the J/K/I/Q if attacked (see B. 1.4 (a)).
2.3 Equip your Nemesis properly (disruptor, hurricane, hornet missiles 20 each) AND deploy her against the Xenon mini invasion once you get the warning 'one of your ships/factories is under attack' (see B. 1.3).
Upon deployment, first engage the smaller Xenon ships (M3-M6) by firing one Hurricane missile at each one of them. Once you get their attention (they'll swarm after you), you can pick them off one by one with missiles (1-shot-1-kill Disruptor/ Hurricane/ Tempest/ Thunderbolt for M5s, and M4;, 1-3 Silkworm/ Thunderbolt/ Tempest/ Hornet for M3s, and M6s).
2.4 If your M7 Tiger gets too much damage during 2.3, jump her to a nearby friendly shipyard for repair and return later.
2.5 Use your M2/ M2+ to engage the Xenon K directly, AFTER you wiped out the smaller Xenon ships. First, approach the K to 8 kms and pummel it with your PPCs to strip her shields while keeping your distance (reversing with -10 km), AND drive your M2/M2+ approx 15-25 kms away from your sector gate/TOA (see 2.6). Once the K is within your firing range (5.5-6.5 kms), keep moving away from her, while your Fusion Beam Cannons will take her down in 5-6 mins, if you're in a Pteranodon.
2.6 If you don't want to get/ can't afford a Pteranodon, then after the engagement in point 2.5 above, jump your M7 Tiger in to your sector, move your M2/M2+ towards her within transporting range (4-5 kms), and switch from your M2 to your M7 Tiger, while have your M2 jump to a nearby friendly sector (or shipyard if damaged). Then use the Fusion Beam Cannons on your Tiger as described in point 2.5 above to eliminate the Xenon K in 5-8 mins.

The above strategy and tactics will take a guaranteed proper and swift care of any recurring Xenon mini invasions in your sectors.

Hope that helped.

Best regards,
tablebay

[That guy with the Spoon]

why use beam weapons which are hard to get your hands on and only fit on about 5 ship types, when they could just use laser towers which use the beam weapon?

the stuff is so much cheaper and more accessible if you'd clone them in ceo's sprite.

in my home sector i deployed 40 laser towers infront of the gate. i ejected them in bundles of 10 and spread them out a bit. just enough spacing so they don't hit each other but still with 5km so they can cover each other.

i haven't lost a single tower so far and i only paid about 6 million for them.

why deploy ships that will get rekt by a random Q at some point? they will get rekt for sure if your destroyer has to fight multiple Q's.

[tablebay]

Hello Spoon Guy,

1. My original comment above
My answer was purported to give a proper and permanent solution to MooN's problem with Xenon mini invasions on his sectors, based on my experience and gameplay (tactics preference) with X3 FL.
I've never said my solution proposal is the only working one for that kind of problem.

2. Fusion Beam Cannons (FBC)
2.1 Range and Preciseness:
FBC (as it comes from the Terran Orbital Laser) has a superior range (of 7.63 km) and dmg rate over that of the Plasma Beam Cannon, Tri-Beam Cannon, or Phased Array Laser Cannon. This is crucial when engaging an M1/ M2/ M2+/ M7/ M7M, either for boarding or destroying it. I found multiple times when engaging target capitals, that my FBCs kept stripping the enemy ship's shield/hull EVEN UP TO 10 kms range. No other weapon does that in X3 FL.
Although prone to ship movements, the beams quickly reacquire the target, thus providing the best energy/hit ratio (1-3% miss rate) when used directly/ turret cmd from player's ship.
2.2 Rarity:
FBCs are NOT THAT scarce, they pop up frequently at black market in various Teladi trading stations (e.g., PTNI HQ epsilon, Ceo's Doubt, Eighteen Billion, Ianamus Zura alpha, Merchant Haven), and in other trading stations (Third Redemption, Elena's Fortune alpha, Priest's Pity, Aladna Hill, Ghinn's Escape) close (1-2 sectors) to pirate sectors, from time to time. A Tiger requires 4, a Pteranodon needs 8 FBCs, but they earn their price (see 2.3) after stemming 3 Xenon mini invasions in your sectors.
2.3 Price:
Both the ships (M7 - 35-60mio, M2/M2+ 90-105mio), and the FBC come with a considerable price tag (0.95-1mio credits).
But once having built an empire of 20-30+ factories, and having a small trading fleet (TS, TL, TM, TP), you must be able to afford keeping 3-4 capital ships (M6, M7, M7M, M2) for protection/ boarding missions.

3. Use of FBC on capital ships versus in laser towers
This is more a question of different game playing styles, than affordability (see 2.3).
Some people prefer using laser towers, soem prefer them FBCs.

3.1 It is easier for me to buy and equip 12 (4+8, 11-12mio credits total) FBCs on 2 capital ships for use at virtually unlimited times, whenever and wherever I need to; PLUS it earns its price after repelling 3 Xenon mini invasions.
3.2 Deployment of 40 laser towers can be cheaper in terms of buying price, but they are slow to engage and follow enemy targets when needed, AND they are far more vulnerable to enemy capital ships than my own controlled FBCs.
Plus they often tend to engage trader ships that turned enemy while I've made missions to an opposite race, causing further unnecessary ruining to my rep to the affected race.

4. Engaging multiple capital ships
4.1 General
This is also an issue of different preference of game playing styles, like I said in point 3 above. And this involves game playing strategy and tactics as well, as I pointed out in my earlier post of 25.08.2022 above (see points 2.1-2.6), to MooN.
Nobody is forced to play according to my playing style, it is merely one out of numerous gameplay style choices.
4.2 Specific tactics for multiple capital ships
Basically, there are 2 types of approach for this issue, although both require a considerable investment in ships, weapons, missiles BEFORE the actual engagement.
4.2.1 Use of many smaller (M4, M3, M6) ships/drones, and/or laser towers, plus 1-2 capitals as backup. But this ALWAYS entails medium to heavy losses in small ships/ drones/ laser towers during battle, plus the 'cleaning after battle' (meaning, checking and sending remaining ships to repair/rearm, undeploying drones/ laser towers, replacement of lost ships/ drones/ laser towers).
4.2.2 Use of 1-2 capital ships, with occasional switching between them (see my post of 25.08.2022 to MooN above). I prefer this method over the one in 4.2.1 above, since it entails FAR LESS loss of ships, and MUCH LESS 'cleaning after battle' compared to 4.2.1.

But it is just my preferred gameplay style, and nobody is forced to follow it.

No offence or harm intended.
Best regards,
tablebay

[That guy with the Spoon]

the thing is that i can more easily replace a laser tower or terran orbital laser than getting a new capital ship and equipping it with the beam weapons again. in that time the op has to replace the ship their hq probably gets destroyed.

i didn't know that some versions fire beyond 5km but how much range do you really need? 5km is overkill as it is and when stacked and firing at the same time they're all you need.

everything gets vaporized before it even finished jumping through the gate. they get barely any shots off on my line of defense.


i know the op said they have 100 stations or whatever. if that's the case i'm wondering why they're still flying a crappy nemesis? it's probably the worst m6 ship that the game has to offer. a hydra at least can use ion disruptors to help kill equipment of a boarding target but the nemesis is just crap overall when it only equips ISR and FBL as more specialized lasers.


also if the op is sided with argon, boron, teladi then your advise isn't helpful because as i said in my last post the beam weapons only equip in so many ship types and it's all split or maybe paranid ships.

[tablebay]

Hello Spoon Guy, and MooN,

1. Pteranodon and FBC
First of all, my apologies for both of you for I made a medium mistake when writing about FBCs in Pteranodon, and in Tiger.
These 2 ships take only Phased Array Laser Cannons (PALC) as beam weapons, and not FBC. I am very sorry for this mistake, and correcting it now.

Please read Point 2 in my second post of 25.08.2022 above on FBC as follows:

(a) "2. Phased Array Laser Cannon (PALC)
2.1 Range and Preciseness
PALC has a bit shorter range (6.3 km) than FBC (6.6 km), and does a bit less dmg than either FBC or Tri-Beam Cannon. But due to its high range (6.5-9/10 kms), it still is a must to be equipped on Pteranodon, in order to quickly finish off any enemy M1/ M2/ M2+/ M7."
(b) As for Points 2.2 (Rarity) and 2.3 (Price), what I wrote about FBC shall also apply to PALC accordingly.

2. Strategy and tactics against Xenon capitals
Other than what I said in Point 1 above, the strategy and tactics as described in my previous posts of 25.08.2022 above, are still valid and working strategy and tactics against ANY enemy M1/ M2/ M2+/ M7.

3. My preference of using Pteranodon over other M2s
There are 3 main reasons for it:
3.1 Beam weapons
Option to equip with beam weapons (PALC) in its turrets, thus giving a longer range of precise firing during a sustained engagement with other enemy capitals.
3.2 Speed and shielding
Pteranodon has the highest speed (75 m/s) among all M2s, which is crucial when engaging and luring the enemy after you, while firing at it from your side and rear turrets.
Plus she has 10 (5x2) GJ shielding which comes in handy when engaging Xenon or Terran/ATF capitals.
3.3 Combining weapons at main guns instead of front turret
Pteranodon is the only ship among all M2s having 8 MAIN GUNS, instead of a front turret. This is highly important during the engagement and first stage of fight with any enemy capitals, as stripping 8-12 GJ shielding off with 4-6 salvos early at a range of about 6.5 km, and then keep destroying the bare hull of the enemy capital ship.
This also grants you a unique freedom of combining main weapons (PPC, PALC), as well as scaling your firing salvos by using 2/4/6/8 main guns at once whenever and wherever you see fit, WITHOUT the need to go into turret mode before starting actual firing like with other M2s.

4. Answers to Spoon Guy
4.1 Replacement of laser towers versus capital ship equipped with beam weapons
My point is (as was in my previous posts of 25.08.2022 above as well), that by using either (i) a Pteranodon, or (ii) any other available M2 fitting a beam weapon (Odysseus, Boreas, Brigantine) + a Tiger, with the tactics I specified above, you are NOT going to lose your M2, just have some shield dmg, but no or minimal hull dmg, while destroying/capturing the enemy capital ship.

4.2 Beam weapons range and dmg versus overkill
Beam weapons range (6.3-6.6km) and dmg are NOT overkill, compared to those of the Point Singularity Projector (PSP) (6.4 km), with a dmg exceeding the beam weapons shield (7.5 times higher) and hull (30 times higher) dmg. PSPs are frequently equipped on Xenon and Terran/ATF capitals. Its projectile speed is low (9 times slower than PALC) however, so you'll see it (pale white snowflake like shape) when being fired upon you.
Hence my tactics and equipment suggestion for effective fighting with Xenon and/or Terran/ATF capitals in my previous posts above.

4.3 Use of large number (20-40) laser towers versus one M2+/ M2 and M7for own sector protection
Like I detailed in my previous posts above (and I do not intend to repeat it here), this is a question of preferring different gameplay styles or tactics.
It appears our preferred gameplay styles differ somewhat, but each to their own.

4.4 Use of Nemesis as player's ship
Nemesis is good for use at the early stage of X3 FL, but once you get yourself a Hyperion Vanguard or the Kogarasu Maru, Nemesis soon becomes obsolete compared to them.
It did not add up to me as for someone having a complex of nearly 100 factories, still using Nemesis as player's ship.
But who am I to judge others.

4.5 Use of beam weapons versus siding with Argon/ Boron/ Teladi
Siding with Argon/ Boron / Teladi DOES NOT prevent you from acquiring a Paranid/ Split M2/ M2+ ship by boarding it, or having its blueprint stolen by agent.
As for me, I boarded my only Odysseus (rev eng'd it) AND my Tiger, and stole the blueprints for ALL beam weapon factories.
Took me some time and reloads, but it was totally worth it.

Best regards,
tablebay

[Ketraar]

I must admit I have not read all the replies since I don't have much time, but I would like to address the main sentiment of losing things. X3FL was made with that being one of the things at the core of it. Catered to mostly X veterans, X3FL was made to have things not always remain static and linear, but instead to shake things up over time. So that even later when you basically "have won the game" there is still things to worry about.

If you place all your chips in one location then you should make sure its safe and protected. Its in my opinion very unrealistic to expect to not have bad things happen or lose stuff. And I don't think that the balance is such where its unreasonably punishing, there should be enough tools to counter act any challenge presented to you.

My suggestion here is to try and move away from old startegies and trying to adapt and come up with new ways to tackle the gameplay that emerges from how X3FL was designed and balanced. X3FL is not just X3AP with some QoL, its supposed to be different.

MFG

Ketraar

[That guy with the Spoon]

Originally posted by Ketraar:

I must admit I have not read all the replies since I don't have much time, but I would like to address the main sentiment of losing things. X3FL was made with that being one of the things at the core of it. Catered to mostly X veterans, X3FL was made to have things not always remain static and linear, but instead to shake things up over time. So that even later when you basically "have won the game" there is still things to worry about.

If you place all your chips in one location then you should make sure its safe and protected. Its in my opinion very unrealistic to expect to not have bad things happen or lose stuff. And I don't think that the balance is such where its unreasonably punishing, there should be enough tools to counter act any challenge presented to you.

My suggestion here is to try and move away from old startegies and trying to adapt and come up with new ways to tackle the gameplay that emerges from how X3FL was designed and balanced. X3FL is not just X3AP with some QoL, its supposed to be different.

MFG

Ketraar

i do get that it's designed for players who have spent enough time in TC and AP and want to look for more X3 and it can have a new twist to it as well.

but the game can be very punishing at times. if you have your hq in a core sector and you do a few missions for the opposing side you'll end up putting your assets in danger, especially the hq.
this happened to me in my current run where i found the hq in rolk's legacy and i wanted to at least get split neutral to me. i ended up turning rolk's legacy and other boron sectors red and i had nothing at that time.

i ended up kiting capital ships around in my express by aggroing them with mosquito missile spam and then waited until i raised the influence and buffed the notoriety for boron again so i can claim weapon error.

the main issue with FL is that pretty much 80% of sectors are off limits. i don't see teladi sectors viable either so for me the number is even higher. if i eventually swap sides with the races i can't build in paranid - argon or split - boron sectors. pirate sectors were very good in earlier games but in FL they're off limits as well with more pirate capital ships traversing their sectors and there not being a reason to only side with teladi, pirates and dukes.

for ownerless sectors there are only a hand full of sectors that make good home sectors

so i guess the op figured it'd make sense to settle in goner sectors near omicron lyrae because the worst that can happen is that the true light seeker attacks your stations and it's easily dealt with. harmony of perpetuity is also a very good hsap sector because of the 450% sun light.

the only problem is that the sector is in range of a xenon sector and has endless amounts jumping in there. most hsap's suffer from this.

the only sectors that are not in range of a xenon sector are the sectors southwest of cardinals domain or the unknown sector in the void where the main plot starts.

maybe terran space has a unknown sector, i'm not sure but there aren't enough choices.

[Ketraar]

Originally posted by That guy with the Spoon:

the main issue with FL is that pretty much 80% of sectors are off limits.

This is hyperbole though. Obviously if you build station in factions you are going to "betray" then that's a consequence you have to live with. Even then, you can just build you stations outside the core of sectors and that alone will grant a lot of safety until factions actively go after your stuff, which they don't for most of the relations even the lover ones.

Still there are many non race sectors, sure some have pirates in them so you have to deal with those, but there are also at least 10 RSL sectors in addition to the unclaimed ones.

Obviously we would not want to make a mostly empty map since, like on earth, most space is controlled by one authority or another and you have to find a way to carve your own corner.

MFG

Ketraar

[[NbAk] JoKeR]

Well, what i've found... And don't take it as advice, but it seems to me, that the lower your fighting rank is, the weaker the enemies coming at you are... So if you focus on building up your complexes, and fleet, WAY before you start killing sh!t... Well, then it's going to be ez pz...

That's my experience... I'm doing a pure financial start, without any unnecessary killings...

I killed a few during the story mode, because it was part of the plot... And then have had a few Xenon drop by unannounced in my primary sector of Maelstrom Beta... You've got a jump gate, between Maelstrom Beta, and Unknown Enemy Sector to the north.

You can connect the Hub to that... And don't have to build the hypergate from Maelstrom... That way, you wont get bothered by pirates neither...

It's almost never visited, except for the rare nonoccurence of Xenon incursions...

I defend my entire sector, with 6 laser towers, around the gate. That's where they spawn...

And they die, before they have a chance to shoot back...

[ayrtep]

The story form X3FL is a bit short. My advice is to combine with TC and AP. I am going with three mods.

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=201&t=453938

This basically bolts X3:FL on before X3:TC, then adds AP afterwords. But uses all the new FL stuff. So you have something to do after finishing FL.

Also https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=201&t=457196 as the pre-war galaxy is more peaceful, and I hate the dynamic relation system.