Should I Play the Original Instead?

[Francisè von Spitroast]

This is probably a stupid question... I like the gameplay formula of System Shock a lot. Going around a ship by yourself solving puzzles in between floors to slowly progress is great and I love System Shock 2, but this game? It pisses me off constantly. Respawning enemies that tank damage, bad hit feedback, glitches aplenty, map doesn't bother to show half the keys of the icons on display, weird quality of life omissions (retro or not, there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to tell what ammo I have loaded at a glance), some of the worst enemy design I've ever seen, tedious level design... is this faithful to the original in these regards or is it possible that I'll have a better time? I have a feeling that my issues with this game's level design will be tripled in the original but I can possibly deal with that if everything else is less aggravating.

Also, I'm really tired of sticking to the same three guns all game, and the gas grenade doesn't seem to actually do anything.

[Stargoat]

You probably won't have much of a better time in the original, but addressing your specific concerns:
- Reduce respawns by taking out security cameras and computer nodes
- On Research specifically, there's a way to stop production and respawn of robots for that stage
- The hit feedback could be better I agree
- The map glitches are an issue, they're apparently fixed for the patch (not that that helps us right now)
- You can tell what ammo is loaded on most weapons except the shotgun (which is glitched atm) by looking at the ammo counter - orange for 'normal', blue for 'armour piercing
- the enemies are fine, they could be a bit more aggressive though. If you're having trouble fighting them, work the corners, select appropriate weapons and ammo
- The level design is great, you're straight trippin' on that one. The OG is basically identical in this regard

On weapons: It sounds like you're quite early, maybe Research, Maintenance or Reactor. You'll start finding more weapons and upgrades soon. As a hint...

- Medical has two secret weapons (can be found again later)
- Research has a new weapon
- Maintenance has a new weapon
- Storage has three new weapons
- Flight Deck has one new weapon and multiple upgrades
- Reactor does not have any new weapons, but does have a spare shotgun

note on the map: although there are glitches (particularly for elevators), make sure the icons for particular keys are actually active, since they can be toggled

[ZylonBane]

Why not play both?

The original has the advantage that, with its primitive graphics but advanced game systems, it feels like a game that's looking to the future.

The remake, with its (mostly) modern graphics but weird pixelation and other throwback design decisions, feels like a game that's looking to the past.

[Stargoat]

Originally posted by ZylonBane:

Why not play both?

The original has the advantage that, with its primitive graphics but advanced game systems, it feels like a game that's looking to the future.

The remake, with its (mostly) modern graphics but weird pixelation and other throwback design decisions, feels like a game that's looking to the past.

Are you getting soft? That almost sounds like a recommendation to play the remake

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by ZylonBane:

Why not play both?

The original has the advantage that, with its primitive graphics but advanced game systems, it feels like a game that's looking to the future.

The remake, with its (mostly) modern graphics but weird pixelation and other throwback design decisions, feels like a game that's looking to the past.

Time limitation. Growing disinterest in video games.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Stargoat:

You probably won't have much of a better time in the original, but addressing your specific concerns:
- Reduce respawns by taking out security cameras and computer nodes
- On Research specifically, there's a way to stop production and respawn of robots for that stage
- The hit feedback could be better I agree
- The map glitches are an issue, they're apparently fixed for the patch (not that that helps us right now)
- You can tell what ammo is loaded on most weapons except the shotgun (which is glitched atm) by looking at the ammo counter - orange for 'normal', blue for 'armour piercing
- the enemies are fine, they could be a bit more aggressive though. If you're having trouble fighting them, work the corners, select appropriate weapons and ammo
- The level design is great, you're straight trippin' on that one. The OG is basically identical in this regard

On weapons: It sounds like you're quite early, maybe Research, Maintenance or Reactor. You'll start finding more weapons and upgrades soon. As a hint...

- Medical has two secret weapons (can be found again later)
- Research has a new weapon
- Maintenance has a new weapon
- Storage has three new weapons
- Flight Deck has one new weapon and multiple upgrades
- Reactor does not have any new weapons, but does have a spare shotgun

note on the map: although there are glitches (particularly for elevators), make sure the icons for particular keys are actually active, since they can be toggled

Not sure how I missed the ammo counter hint. Thank you.
The enemies are usually pretty easy, they just seem to be inconsistent in how much ammo they gobble. They also don't really telegraph attacks, react to being shot or require specific strategies for each. It's just a matter of using the right ammo for each. The worst are the floating ball things which are accurate, spam you with toxin, eat Magnum rounds for breakfast, respawn frequently and come in great numbers. I'm playing on Hard and it isn't a difficult game most of the time, it's just tedious and frustrating. I think the gunplay is truly awful. Peaking around doors which automatically shut on you with low damaging weapons and enemies who either decide to shoot you... or don't, and often have large blast radius' (I've been killed by toxin and EMP'd behind walls) isn't enjoyable gameplay to me.
The level design is fine but a lot of it is samey and it's annoying running down endless corridors with respawning enemies and a map that doesn't tell you all of the required info. It'd be a lot better if it wasn't for the enemies - which I admit isn't really a level design issue as much as a gameplay one, so my criticism isn't really valid.

Thanks for the weapon hints too. So far I've found an SMG which I never found ammo for and then subsequently lost (I played it in a cargo thing on my first run but after returning months later I can't for the life of me figure out which), the pistol, wrench, little laser beam weapon, the lazer rapier, the magnum and roughly a hundred shotguns. I've yet to find an assault rifle or a second SMG, so I've just been sticking with the pistol, laser beam, magnum and shotgun the whole time. I said three because the magnum feels very similar to the pistol except stronger.

[Stargoat]

Use the shotgun's dragon's breath or standard pistol ammo for the virus mutants, it's not worth wasting your magnum on them and they're resistant to energy attacks. Most enemies actually do telegraph their attacks, although it's difficult with Sec-1 bots since they don't have any arms etc. I'm sure there is a tell, but can't remember what it is.

Enemies also have weakpoints. Once you have the target identifier implant, use that to show information including enemy health, energy and said weakpoints. I think the default button for it is left alt. It's also a good way to quickly judge how effective a particular weapon is.

The other thing you can do is when you encounter a group, backtrack so that you can deal with them one-by-one. Bait out an attack by leaning from out of cover and back into cover again, then back out to attack. Most* enemies have a cooldown period between shots, but some will fire a long burst (for example, drone cyborgs will do this), so make sure their attack has finished before counter-attacking.

The magnum has an upgrade which increases its damage potential if you obtain a 'lock-on', which differentiates how you use it quite a lot from the pistol. The SMG uses the same ammunition as the pistol, so pick one or the the other, and there's at least one other in the game but not for a while... it'll be somewhere (unless you dropped it in an elevator).

That's a lot of shotgun ammo. It's a decent weapon, use it to conserve more valuable ammunition types and don't have easy access to a recharge station.

Did you find the magpulse? It's good against bots.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Stargoat:

Use the shotgun's dragon's breath or standard pistol ammo for the virus mutants, it's not worth wasting your magnum on them and they're resistant to energy attacks. Most enemies actually do telegraph their attacks, although it's difficult with Sec-1 bots since they don't have any arms etc. I'm sure there is a tell, but can't remember what it is.

Enemies also have weakpoints. Once you have the target identifier implant, use that to show information including enemy health, energy and said weakpoints. I think the default button for it is left alt. It's also a good way to quickly judge how effective a particular weapon is.

The other thing you can do is when you encounter a group, backtrack so that you can deal with them one-by-one. Bait out an attack by leaning from out of cover and back into cover again, then back out to attack. Most* enemies have a cooldown period between shots, but some will fire a long burst (for example, drone cyborgs will do this), so make sure their attack has finished before counter-attacking.

The magnum has an upgrade which increases its damage potential if you obtain a 'lock-on', which differentiates how you use it quite a lot from the pistol. The SMG uses the same ammunition as the pistol, so pick one or the the other, and there's at least one other in the game but not for a while... it'll be somewhere (unless you dropped it in an elevator).

That's a lot of shotgun ammo. It's a decent weapon, use it to conserve more valuable ammunition types and don't have easy access to a recharge station.

Did you find the magpulse? It's good against bots.

I think the magpulse is the one I accidentally left in a tube somewhere. The SMG I just found while playing then and exchanged the pisstol for it.
Thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate it. I haven't been using any of the tech abilities because I haven't felt the need to but it might ease the annoyance of enemies.

[Stargoat]

The implants are pretty useful, although not all are combat-oriented. I mapped each one to F1 through F8 (although had to change F5, obviously) - it makes it easier to quickly toggle them when needed, rather than having to open the MFD.

Don't worry about misplacing the MagPulse, there are plenty in the game by the time you really need it.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Stargoat:

The implants are pretty useful, although not all are combat-oriented. I mapped each one to F1 through F8 (although had to change F5, obviously) - it makes it easier to quickly toggle them when needed, rather than having to open the MFD.

Don't worry about misplacing the MagPulse, there are plenty in the game by the time you really need it.

Good to know, cheers.

[nixos]

i tweaked the game to my likings
https://www.nexusmods.com/systemshock2023/mods/28

now i like the remake very much.