Too tired of wandering through the maze

[yai200439]

I'm a kind of a guy who appreciate winding tunnels and twisting maps, such as Soul series and The Surge, but this is beyond my tolerance.
The most blatant flaw on this design is the lack of clear objective.
You have no idea what to do, or look for. And All the map being circular does not help the matters.

If you need the help of youtube to find your, not secrets nor side mission, but main objective, I think this game is very bad with level design.

[wardenwolf]

Originally posted by yai200439:

-snip

Sorry, but you're wrong. The game tells you exactly what you need to do either with signage in the levels or through audio logs. What it DOESN'T do is show you or hold your hand with a map marker. The game also gives you the tools to mark your map and you have the ability to physically write things down yourself (something you need to do with the CPU codes on certain levels anyway).

If English isn't your first language, that's one thing, but you can't argue that all the information you need isn't in the game. It is. It's how I beat the game originally and how I beat the game this time.

As for the level designs themselves, plot aside, yes, some of them are like a maze. But they're supposed to be. The game is supposed to be disorientating and claustrophobic...it's part of the setting and assists the story telling. Doom was similar, but with less plot to tie everything together. What they aren't, though, is incomprehensible or "unsolvable". They exist as setting for the locations of where you're going to find the audio logs you need anyway. If it was an uninspired, linear snoozefest, there'd really be no point in the game at all.

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is in thinking the game is an FPS; it isn't. Doom was a first person shooter. System Shock is a story/puzzle/exploration game that has combat in it. And because it's a first person game, the combat is first person as a natural consequence. But that doesn't make the game a first person shooter any more than the cyberspace sections make the game Descent.

[Zapmaster]

Originally posted by yai200439:

Originally posted by Toasty:

Your objectives are literally told to you by Rebecca Lansing and Shodan. You just need to pay attention.

You hear some people grouping up in the executive area, so you plan to go there. After passing research and maintenance area, you finally reached the elevator leading up to executive, you press the button, only to hear that power is in R.
Assuming it is the reactor, you go down there. wander through the maze, you came across a machine called radiation shielding. Thankfully, you have the Isotope-22 somewhere before, and have no idea what it is used for, and just put it in, with no idea what is it for. You get back into the elevator and, on my, it still saying the same stuff.
You need to get back to the central control in research level and then press a button on a TOTAL UNMARKED wall.
ONLY THEN are you able to use the elevator for the executives.
And NO, they DID NOT told me ANYTHING about this what so ever.
YES, they told me about the mining laser pointing at the EARTH and how to disarm them, but no they do not tell you that you NEED to do that in order to GET to the elevator. SHODAN might else well just put insect, kill god mutagen in any random sentence maker for all the info she gives.

THIS is NOT a good level design. It is not quest markers or anything, it is just gives you nothing.

Originally posted by Laicus:

Unfortunately, this is true, but fortunately, there are smart games, for example, SS, and if a person constantly plays such games, disabling all hints and not using guides, he can improve his cognitive abilities.
But besides the fact that many people are stupid, they are also lazy and unwilling to develop, although almost anyone can achieve phenomenal results in comparison with his basic (natural) level.

And if playing this game makes you think you are way more intelligent then others, well everybody got their kinks for fapping, but that does not change it is a bad design.

Some of the old guys here are pulling your chain honestly, even back in the day it was rare that someone completed this game without looking up a walkthrough at some point. I used to spend a lot of time on TTLG forums, and people would get stuck all the time and ask for help. It's just that this type of obtuse puzzle design was normal back then so we didn't whine about "bad level design" or whatever. We just spent hours and hours trying things until we stumbled into the the solution, or we eventually gave up and looked it up somewhere. That said, this is also faithful remake of a 1994 game so it's all as intended, it's your expectations that you were getting a modern game which are causing the problem. Just refund and move on with your life.

[Toasty]

Originally posted by yai200439:

You hear some people grouping up in the executive area, so you plan to go there. After passing research and maintenance area, you finally reached the elevator leading up to executive, you press the button, only to hear that power is in R.
Assuming it is the reactor, you go down there. wander through the maze, you came across a machine called radiation shielding. Thankfully, you have the Isotope-22 somewhere before, and have no idea what it is used for, and just put it in, with no idea what is it for. You get back into the elevator and, on my, it still saying the same stuff.
You need to get back to the central control in research level and then press a button on a TOTAL UNMARKED wall.
ONLY THEN are you able to use the elevator for the executives.
And NO, they DID NOT told me ANYTHING about this what so ever.
YES, they told me about the mining laser pointing at the EARTH and how to disarm them, but no they do not tell you that you NEED to do that in order to GET to the elevator. SHODAN might else well just put insect, kill god mutagen in any random sentence maker for all the info she gives.

THIS is NOT a good level design. It is not quest markers or anything, it is just gives you nothing.

You start the game and get an email from Rebecca Lansing describing the situation:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985979834
Sounds like we should go find Nathan Darcy in his office. After searching for a bit, we find his office...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985981039
...Oh no! He appears to be dead!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985981048
Fortunately he left us an audio log telling us EXACTLY how to stop that laser...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985979843
Ok, it sounds like we need two things:
Isotope X-22 to power the shields and the Safety Override code to fire the laser... both of these things are seemingly found in Research, Level 2

But wait... How are we supposed to get there if the elevator on Medical isn't working? Well, it sounds like if we could lower the security level enough by destroying the CPU nodes we'd be able to take the elevator up to Research.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2985979852

...and so on... Power is diverted to level R because SHODAN is charging the mining laser. Almost every question you could have is answered by an audio log somewhere.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by Dehra:

It's boomer design. You have to make sure you listen to every audio log properly/figure out if they are talking about story related objectives them remember what they say/try to figure out where they mean. They should just add like an item to track the next objective.

It is bad design, i agree though. Same as enemies that keep respawning. It's not hard on the highest difficulty. Just annoying.

But be ready for all the boomers coming here to talk about "i like games where they don't have handholding" . The same ones that have to use summons or co-op in Elden Ring. It's just sad and hypocritical.

edit. As i was typing this reply the boomers flooded in lmao

"The game has to hold my hand or I'll cry." boo hoo you have to read a audio log (yes it has a text transcript now) you're poisoned by tiktok this game is too hard for you cause you're sick in the head.

[Ghostface]

Originally posted by yai200439:

I'm a kind of a guy who appreciate winding tunnels and twisting maps, such as Soul series and The Surge, but this is beyond my tolerance.
The most blatant flaw on this design is the lack of clear objective.
You have no idea what to do, or look for. And All the map being circular does not help the matters.

If you need the help of youtube to find your, not secrets nor side mission, but main objective, I think this game is very bad with level design.

You praise souls games which make the game piss easy with summons and shared info and overleveling but whine when you can't call in a summon or have a sign on the ground that says "go here". You're a literal fraud.

[Hash]

People who love immersive sims dislike objective markers. If you explore you'll find the objective eventually but if you focus only on your primary objective you will miss all the items and power-ups that allow you to actually achieve it. Even when Prey came out people recommended just turning markers off because the game just flows better if you use your natural instincts for exploration and the same is definitely true for this game which originally inspired that gameplay.

I could go on: System Shock 2 was IIRC in development around the time Thief: Dark Project was made, a game that was pretty successful without telling you where to go and spawned a highly successful franchise you might've heard of.

[Laicus]

Originally posted by yai200439:

And if playing this game makes you think you are way more intelligent then others, well everybody got their kinks for fapping, but that does not change it is a bad design.

It's either a bad design of your brain, or your laziness, or both.

[Mo¡stDreams]

cough rogue light before it was a term says all u need to know

[Toasty]

Originally posted by Laicus:

There are cases when the bad design of the game is really to blame, but SS is not the case, everything is logical and intelligible in this game, if you cannot complete the game without a guide, then you have some cognitive problems, you either do not assimilate information well, or you have disorientation. These may be signs of developing dementia, consult your doctor.

Originally posted by Laicus:

Unfortunately, this is true, but fortunately, there are smart games, for example, SS, and if a person constantly plays such games, disabling all hints and not using guides, he can improve his cognitive abilities.
But besides the fact that many people are stupid, they are also lazy and unwilling to develop, although almost anyone can achieve phenomenal results in comparison with his basic (natural) level.

Originally posted by Ghostface:

"The game has to hold my hand or I'll cry." boo hoo you have to read a audio log (yes it has a text transcript now) you're poisoned by tiktok this game is too hard for you cause you're sick in the head.

Originally posted by Ghostface:

You praise souls games which make the game piss easy with summons and shared info and overleveling but whine when you can't call in a summon or have a sign on the ground that says "go here". You're a literal fraud.

Damn, some people in this thread really need to take it easy. It's not surprising that there are first time players who are struggling with System Shock. There's no need to be so hostile.

Also lol @ the ego inflation people are getting because they can beat System Shock. Truly the Rick and Morty of video games.

[Kriss]

Originally posted by Dehra:

Originally posted by Doktor Mandrake:

Yeah except its gen-x not boomers and only kids use that term

Secondly, they DO stop respawning if you get security down to 0%

Nah, it's boomers. The first people to complain something is too hard, while simultaneously defending bad game design because "that's how it was back in the day".

The 0% security thing is a lie. The only level enemies haven't respawned is medical at 0%

In the research facility, you need to disactivate the robot production assembly which is indicated in a log.

I don't know for the other floors.

[Kriss]

Originally posted by Toasty:

Damn, some people in this thread really need to take it easy. It's not surprising that there are first time players who are struggling with System Shock. There's no need to be so hostile.

Also lol @ the ego inflation people are getting because they can beat System Shock. Truly the Rick and Morty of video games.

The other party was the first to be agressive... You could have been fair and show the other one and give a jab too. Just saying.

[Laicus]

Originally posted by Toasty:

It's not surprising that there are first time players who are struggling with System Shock.

I'm also playing for the first time, the game has an excellent design, everything is logical and quite simple even at maximum difficulty, the only problem is to complete the game in 10 hours, hardly anyone can do it the first time. But just like you, it does not surprise me that someone is having difficulty with the game, it requires at least a little brain strain, and many are too stupid or lazy to do it, they need idiotic entertainment to which they are accustomed.

[OneDeadLombax]

Originally posted by Laicus:

Originally posted by Toasty:

It's not surprising that there are first time players who are struggling with System Shock.

I'm also playing for the first time, the game has an excellent design, everything is logical and quite simple even at maximum difficulty, the only problem is to complete the game in 10 hours, hardly anyone can do it the first time. But just like you, it does not surprise me that someone is having difficulty with the game, it requires at least a little brain strain, and many are too stupid or lazy to do it, they need idiotic entertainment to which they are accustomed.

Actually, what it comes down to, is that most functional adults have things like jobs, sex lives, maybe children to look after, yards to look after, animals, fitness, a business, responsibilities etc. and spending hours wandering virtual hallways and listening to voice clips and emails from people who don't exist (just read your email spam if that's fun to you) or fiddle ♥♥♥♥ with weird wire puzzles just to figure out what they're even supposed to be DOING in the game isn't exactly a good use of their time if they a bit of spare time to play vidya

All these people who are really into these kinds of "don't hold my hand ever" games are basically just sucking their own ♥♥♥♥♥ over meaningless achievements.

I just get really tired of reading this pretentious nerd ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that having to put in all this work into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video game makes you somehow smarter and better than normal, functional, social people with things going for them and a future just because they'd rather have actual fun shooting things or something instead of trying to find the safety override code and the audio log that tells you where to look, which is about as much fun as looking for your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ car keys tbh

I like the game well enough in its presentation and stuff, but I'm on the verge of quitting myself simply because of all the insane, complex ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you have to do just to advance.

As an unintentionally-wise woman once said

"Ain't nobody got time fo dat"

[Squire Tybalt]

That's funny, you outlined exactly why myself and so many others adore these games, just framed in a negative way

[Morgan]

Originally posted by OneDeadLombax:

Originally posted by Laicus:

I'm also playing for the first time, the game has an excellent design, everything is logical and quite simple even at maximum difficulty, the only problem is to complete the game in 10 hours, hardly anyone can do it the first time. But just like you, it does not surprise me that someone is having difficulty with the game, it requires at least a little brain strain, and many are too stupid or lazy to do it, they need idiotic entertainment to which they are accustomed.

Actually, what it comes down to, is that most functional adults have things like jobs, sex lives, maybe children to look after, yards to look after, animals, fitness, a business, responsibilities etc. and spending hours wandering virtual hallways and listening to voice clips and emails from people who don't exist (just read your email spam if that's fun to you) or fiddle ♥♥♥♥ with weird wire puzzles just to figure out what they're even supposed to be DOING in the game isn't exactly a good use of their time if they a bit of spare time to play vidya

All these people who are really into these kinds of "don't hold my hand ever" games are basically just sucking their own ♥♥♥♥♥ over meaningless achievements.

I just get really tired of reading this pretentious nerd ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that having to put in all this work into a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video game makes you somehow smarter and better than normal, functional, social people with things going for them and a future just because they'd rather have actual fun shooting things or something instead of trying to find the safety override code and the audio log that tells you where to look, which is about as much fun as looking for your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ car keys tbh

I like the game well enough in its presentation and stuff, but I'm on the verge of quitting myself simply because of all the insane, complex ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you have to do just to advance.

As an unintentionally-wise woman once said

"Ain't nobody got time fo dat"

Granted the person you're responding to wasn't exactly polite. But your post is basically saying that you only have time for gaming. SS doesn't require more time than other, more modern, games. It just requires a different, more organic approach, and needs the player to pay attention and possibly make the odd note.