Too tired of wandering through the maze

[yai200439]

I'm a kind of a guy who appreciate winding tunnels and twisting maps, such as Soul series and The Surge, but this is beyond my tolerance.
The most blatant flaw on this design is the lack of clear objective.
You have no idea what to do, or look for. And All the map being circular does not help the matters.

If you need the help of youtube to find your, not secrets nor side mission, but main objective, I think this game is very bad with level design.

[Safir]

Originally posted by Dehra:

"i hate games that hand hold" "why is this game so hard, i don't have all day to play like the kids these days" < you guys are both of these people at the same time, while speaking about different games. The cognitive dissonance on display is mind blowing

Lol, why do you think those are the same people, and where do the people who whined about Elden Ring not telling them where to go or what to do factor in to that?

[Vanta]

i'd recommend paying attention to the logs and being as thorough as you can with your search.

The logs and emails will tell you codes and vital information/hints to progress

[Doktor Mandrake]

Originally posted by Thradar:

"boomer" has become a term to describe anyone older than you. It's dumb. Literally everyone becomes a "boomer", even those edgelords flinging the word around. 😂

I feel bad even responding to that person tbh as the OP post is reasonable and isn't insulting or anything they just dislike the game design but clearly open to discussion and isn't just baiting

[GepardenK]

Originally posted by Doktor Mandrake:

I always thought the difficulty of Souls was needing quick reflexes? Were as SS it's more about the exploration and puzzles

Souls games are also about exploration (some more than others). Dark Souls 1 does the same thing as SSHock where they drop you in a world with some vague objective and you just have to explore until you come across the objectives. Except in DS there are more paths and you can get lost/stuck in a lategame zone which isn't much of an issue in System Shock - so SS is generally much kinder.

Elden Ring has notoriously obscure character quests, and so on.

[Dehra]

Originally posted by Thradar:

"boomer" has become a term to describe anyone older than you. It's dumb. Literally everyone becomes a "boomer", even those edgelords flinging the word around. 😂

Nah, it doesn't. It describes a behaviour

[Dehra]

Originally posted by Safir:

Originally posted by Dehra:

"i hate games that hand hold" "why is this game so hard, i don't have all day to play like the kids these days" < you guys are both of these people at the same time, while speaking about different games. The cognitive dissonance on display is mind blowing

Lol, why do you think those are the same people, and where do the people who whined about Elden Ring not telling them where to go or what to do factor in to that?

The point being is the henpecked boomer crowd will complain about handholding, when it relates to garbage design. But they want handholding when it comes to harder combat etc.

Handholding is handholding. Boomer squad just want to pretend things were better back in the day and how dare you insult the design decisions that were relegated to the past for a reason, sonny jim

[Cenotaph]

Originally posted by Dehra:

It's boomer design. You have to make sure you listen to every audio log properly/figure out if they are talking about story related objectives them remember what they say/try to figure out where they mean. They should just add like an item to track the next objective.

It is bad design, i agree though. Same as enemies that keep respawning. It's not hard on the highest difficulty. Just annoying.

But be ready for all the boomers coming here to talk about "i like games where they don't have handholding" . The same ones that have to use summons or co-op in Elden Ring. It's just sad and hypocritical.

edit. As i was typing this reply the boomers flooded in lmao

it's not bad design, it's world building something the games these days lack a lot by google maps enabling every single game. Marker this, marker that. Wall hacks and the list of atrocities goes on.

[Cenotaph]

Originally posted by Dehra:

Originally posted by Safir:

Lol, why do you think those are the same people, and where do the people who whined about Elden Ring not telling them where to go or what to do factor in to that?

The point being is the henpecked boomer crowd will complain about handholding, when it relates to garbage design. But they want handholding when it comes to harder combat etc.

Handholding is handholding. Boomer squad just want to pretend things were better back in the day and how dare you insult the design decisions that were relegated to the past for a reason, sonny jim

They actually were, 90s and 00s objectively the best era for gaming, you wouldn't know with your arrogant attitude

[Toasty]

Originally posted by yai200439:

I'm a kind of a guy who appreciate winding tunnels and twisting maps, such as Soul series and The Surge, but this is beyond my tolerance.
The most blatant flaw on this design is the lack of clear objective.
You have no idea what to do, or look for. And All the map being circular does not help the matters.

If you need the help of youtube to find your, not secrets nor side mission, but main objective, I think this game is very bad with level design.

Your objectives are literally told to you by Rebecca Lansing and Shodan. You just need to pay attention.

[Kain]

Originally posted by yai200439:

I'm a kind of a guy who appreciate winding tunnels and twisting maps, such as Souls series.

The most blatant flaw on this design is the lack of clear objective.
You have no idea what to do, or look for. And All the map being circular does not help the matters.

You should have loved this game.

[DreamPod9]

Originally posted by yai200439:

I'm a kind of a guy who appreciate winding tunnels and twisting maps, such as Soul series and The Surge, but this is beyond my tolerance.
.

I get a kick out of Souls bro's who complain and compare every game to their precious Magnum Opus. I've never played the original, I'm 41 years old and nothing is confusing about this game.

If you searched the maps properly, you'd realize that almost every path interconnects back to the main one's. Its really not that complex and the level design is actually pretty remarkable in how simple it is once you actually explore.

As for learning your objectives, explore? There's plenty of audio clues, check and double check your media files, once you've opened up the map it's easy to discern where you have and haven't been. You're a Souls guy, doesn't the thrill stem from the game not holding your hand?

[The Renderer]

Love the level design. In the beginning of every level it's a huge unknown with all the twists and turns and by the time you are done it's actually quite small and you can get everywhere in seconds. The shortcut opening etc. is similar to Dark Souls, not sure what you are complaining about, OP.

And you are clearly told what to do in the (audio) logs, up to the point where it felt even a little too much exposition. As long as you keep an eye open and understand the general alpha-to-delta layout (which is marked on the map), it's pretty simple.

The only thing that is a little annoying is the backtracking to heal, but as I said, it only takes a minute.

[Coldhands]

I really like the level design in this remake. I really hate the map.
That's kind of System Shock Remake in a nutshell for me. The GAME part is really scratching an itch for me, but quality or life and player aid features are sorely lacking in a quality and quantity.

[Knocks (I BUY MICS)]

Originally posted by Dehra:

Originally posted by Safir:

Lol, why do you think those are the same people, and where do the people who whined about Elden Ring not telling them where to go or what to do factor in to that?

The point being is the henpecked boomer crowd will complain about handholding, when it relates to garbage design. But they want handholding when it comes to harder combat etc.

Handholding is handholding. Boomer squad just want to pretend things were better back in the day and how dare you insult the design decisions that were relegated to the past for a reason, sonny jim

I found the guy who is angry because he needs a guide to play the game.

But seriously, some of my favorite gaming memories were figuring things out on my own, like in Morrowind, System Shock 2, and the like. You don't appreciate that design philosophy, and probably feel a bit dumb when you can't figure it out so you lash out. I get it, but you don't have to be a total tool to anyone you're incorrectly labeling a "boomer" just because you are used to games that paint all interactable objects in bright yellow. Some of us like to think, it's ok if you don't. Not a competition.

Lastly, games that make you think aren't exclusively relegated to the past, as shown by loads of people like me and my wife who never played the original SS1 and found this game to be amazing. You're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is objectively trash, if only for the loser energy on display when you explain it.

[Silvershine]

Game is a masterpiece, level design, atmosphere, gameplay, feel of shooting, graphics, all top notch. You don't appreciate all that and probably grew up with games which hold your hands with waypoints, this game is not for babies and noobs.