Bit rough to not teach people how crouch jumping works

[Baron]

Takes me back to half-life, having to crouch jump to get to some of those secrets. Not sure anyone born post 2000 is going to know how that works, might want to tutorialise it? Maybe they did and I missed it.

[LegendaryThunder]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by ZylonBane:

I'm shaking my head that you are somehow so completely up your own arsehole that you actually believe there's anything even slightly intuitive about crouch-jumping. There is not. Crouch jumping is NOT intuitive.

First, it's not intuitive because it requires a rapid, sequenced combination of control inputs, which is unlike every other player movement input.

Second, it's not intuitive because in real life "crouch jumping" is not a thing that humans do. Anything that you can crouch jump up onto in a video game, in real life you'd just crawl or climb onto.

The only reason crouch jumping even exists is because of the half-assed way Half Life modeled the player collision box while jumping.

This man has never seen free running or parkour.

no one should even have to mention parkour when it comes to crouch jumping, it's bringing up your knees in a jump. Rollerbladers were doing this in the friggin 90s, have we fallen so far that the only reference to crouch jumping people have is half-life? Most games require crouch jumping post quake 2.

[Kain]

Cap. It's not really necessary for the majority of shooters. Even half life has limited uses for it.

[ParasiteX]

tbf, the crouch jumping is only ever needed for getting into some early secret areas, so the mechanic itself could be a part of the secret
And by the time you actually need to do some serious jumping, you will have the jump boots.

[DDDespair]

For everyone saying this isn't necessary except for extras - I actually needed it to get free from being stuck. On Research, past the 4 switch room, there's a spawn point down a ramp that Hoppers come out of. I ended up falling into a lower section while trying to dodge its shots, and the Hacker wasn't able to jump out of it with standard jumping. I could jump up onto the sloped portion but he would slide back down, and for some reason could not jump onto the ledge that was slightly below waist height to get out. I don't remember if crouch jumping was in the original, but I tried it after hearing someone mention it and it allowed the Hacker to stand on the sloped portion without sliding off, thus I could get out. Pretty nonsensical that I can crouch onto a slope without sliding, but can't stand/jump onto it without sliding. Regardless, I would've had to reset my no-save run, so it would be nice if this move was noted somewhere.

[Baron]

Originally posted by Terepin:

Originally posted by Baron:

Eh? The way they were designed to be discovered intuitively was good design. Whether or not you choose to obsessively hammer on walls and whether you enjoy that like I do is subjective. For myself, I miss the days of a good secret room and every one I find is like retro dopamine. I can nearly HEAR those piles of loot from Wolfenstein 3d as you scoop them all up behind some secret door. Its a lost art - seems like secrets these days are usually a jump or a 'look any direction but straight forward' sort of thing. They secrets after all, can probably run the whole game without finding a single one, but rewards the patient and investigative play that some of us miss.

Seeing a proper secret door open and certainly the way they have done it in this remake, like its meant to be there, ahhh delicious.

Finding secrets by exploring the world is fun. Hammering every wall is not exploration, but obsession. Painkiller is a perfect example of how secrets should be done.

Dude Im not even arguing. Im OCD about it and I enjoy it. Its subjective. The introduction of them I found intuitive by design.

[Baron]

Originally posted by AFP312:

I absolutely agree. Only reason I figured it out is I saw some loot and couldn't get to it and after several jump attempts by caveman brain went boop since I played Gmod back in the day a lot and jump crouched up a crate.

Haha exactly.

[Baron]

Originally posted by Kain:

Where do you actually need to jump crouch though? I only needed to do it once when getting the skill in Storage.

yeah, this is valid. I posted before the boots make it irrelevant. Still a very odd addition to make then unless you are somehow positioning to *cough* makeremakesofallthedarkenginegames *cough* cos they arent remaking Half-life. Or ARE they?! H3 confirmed

[ParasiteX]

Pretty much all of the secret doors i found where from noticing gaps in the minimap and checking if any of the walls looked like it could open. And you can do some basic elimination by not bothering with walls that have buncha pipes and such, as they wouldn't logically open up.

[Sparhawk122]

Crouch jumping is a thing in this game? lol

80% of the way through this game and never knew it was a mechanic. Old school games being obtuse for dumb reasons.

[Cenotaph]

the industry has become stale with tired gameplay tropes. It's the 90s and 00s games that are still more innovative feeling because they don't apply standard game design.
These days i find myself bored quickly because most games are just the same thing with a different coat of paint

[680x0]

i've tried crouch/jumping in every game i've ever played since 1942.

[Jiraboas]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by a Dad:

This game is a breath fresh of air from a very stale industry and one of the main reasons for that is that it does not hold your hand or lead you around by a nose ring.

Figuring stuff out for yourself or just plain discovering things is fun.

Explaining the controls to players is not holding their hands. The game should make sure the player is aware of their options and let them figure out how to apply them.

Yep. Figure out BASIC controls on your own is a bit too much. Every game has different keys and controls. I just played so many games that I just pressed the right keys purely by intuition.

If you played games for 20-30 years you will figure it out on your own. But even DeusEx1 tells you how to crotch jump in the tutorial.

Originally posted by Cenotaph:

the industry has become stale with tired gameplay tropes. It's the 90s and 00s games that are still more innovative feeling because they don't apply standard game design.
These days i find myself bored quickly because most games are just the same thing with a different coat of paint

Yep. Really missed the 90s and 00s. Today 90% of the games feel the same, play like the same and look like the game(comic graphics anyone?). Standards are good and all, but if "standards" mean, standard controls, standard gameplay, standard story, standard graphics, etc. i dont like it.

I know "old man yelled at cloud" but it is what it is. Younger gamer will not notice because everything is new and fresh for them an I am happy for them, that they can explore the world of video games from a fresh perspective without knowing 30 years of video game history.

But old gamers are still exists and play games too. So our opinion matter too.

[Adhan]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Explaining the controls

Explain what exactly? Something that makes sense and has been in dozens fps and fpp rpgs?

Originally posted by Coldhands:

The game should make sure the player is aware of their options

That's not how immersive sims work.

[Morgan]

Originally posted by Adhan:

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Explaining the controls

Explain what exactly? Something that makes sense and has been in dozens fps and fpp rpgs?

Originally posted by Coldhands:

The game should make sure the player is aware of their options

That's not how immersive sims work.

As I recall, it tells you how to open a door.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Adhan:

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Explaining the controls

Explain what exactly? Something that makes sense and has been in dozens fps and fpp rpgs?

You can't expect players to have that experience. Most FPS games DON'T use crouch jump for anything.