Bit rough to not teach people how crouch jumping works

[Baron]

Takes me back to half-life, having to crouch jump to get to some of those secrets. Not sure anyone born post 2000 is going to know how that works, might want to tutorialise it? Maybe they did and I missed it.

[MrBananaGrabber]

Ditto, I only knew it was in the game when I heard someone in a video mention it. Yet another thing you have to discover purely by chance in this game.

[DYSEQTA]

This game is a breath fresh of air from a very stale industry and one of the main reasons for that is that it does not hold your hand or lead you around by a nose ring.

Figuring stuff out for yourself or just plain discovering things is fun.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by a Dad:

This game is a breath fresh of air from a very stale industry and one of the main reasons for that is that it does not hold your hand or lead you around by a nose ring.

Figuring stuff out for yourself or just plain discovering things is fun.

Explaining the controls to players is not holding their hands. The game should make sure the player is aware of their options and let them figure out how to apply them.

[Macrophage]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by a Dad:

This game is a breath fresh of air from a very stale industry and one of the main reasons for that is that it does not hold your hand or lead you around by a nose ring.

Figuring stuff out for yourself or just plain discovering things is fun.

Explaining the controls to players is not holding their hands. The game should make sure the player is aware of their options and let them figure out how to apply them.

Exactly. And for this reason, games (including SS2) used to have a training course option.

[GepardenK]

Yeah, caught me off guard. Especially since crouch jumping wasn't a thing in the original.

TBF it's more of a bonus thing, so not sure if a tutorial is needed. You either figure out crouch jumping to shortcut to a few extra secrets or you wait until you have to rocket boots.

[bl_4u]

I think SS2 had something similar called 'mantling' which was part of the engine that it used (same as some of the Thief games).

You would hold the jump button while moving forwards and it would let you climb a barrier if it was about chest high, but like others mentioned that game had a series of tutorials to explain the mechanics and even give starting bonuses for certain weapons and skills.

[Morgan]

Originally posted by a Dad:

This game is a breath fresh of air from a very stale industry and one of the main reasons for that is that it does not hold your hand or lead you around by a nose ring.

Figuring stuff out for yourself or just plain discovering things is fun.

Agreed. But that concept shouldn't extend to game controls.

[Twice]

Originally posted by GepardenK:

Yeah, caught me off guard. Especially since crouch jumping wasn't a thing in the original.

TBF it's more of a bonus thing, so not sure if a tutorial is needed. You either figure out crouch jumping to shortcut to a few extra secrets or you wait until you have to rocket boots.

The only sensible comment.

[Morgan]

Originally posted by Twice Dead:

Originally posted by GepardenK:

Yeah, caught me off guard. Especially since crouch jumping wasn't a thing in the original.

TBF it's more of a bonus thing, so not sure if a tutorial is needed. You either figure out crouch jumping to shortcut to a few extra secrets or you wait until you have to rocket boots.

The only sensible comment.

"Uncommon game controls should be explained" is a totally sensible comment that a few people have posted.

[MrBananaGrabber]

They make sure everyone knows exactly how to use a vent door, but don't tell anyone they've added crouch jump

[Baron]

Originally posted by MrBananaGrabber:

Ditto, I only knew it was in the game when I heard someone in a video mention it. Yet another thing you have to discover purely by chance in this game.

Its good game design. I found secret doors also in a very intuitive way. Now I hammer everything to see if it opens.

[Crypto Gamer]

Yes they had tutorial for crouch via the vent they could add one for crouch jump as well.

Some stuff can not be reached by normal jumps but can by crouch jumping.

Secrets doors were much better done in the enchanced edition as they had more obvious signs but were still hidden enough.

In remake I just spam use as I run thrugh blocks even though some of them are found in the same or almost same locations as the enchanced edition.
I found 95% of them by pure chance via brute force.

And 1 camera(4%) is even hidden behind a secret door on the flight deck.

[GepardenK]

Originally posted by Morgan:

"Uncommon game controls should be explained" is a totally sensible comment that a few people have posted.

Not always. You don't want to burden newcomers with worries about advanced stuff that don't actually improve your core ability to enjoy the game.

It's there for the people that find it, and it can be safely ignored by everyone else. just like 80% of Crusader Kings.

I wish games did this way more. I get really frustrated when a game give me 17 popups about various insignificant mechanics that I just don't care about when I'm new to a game. I'm not gonna remember them anyway, so why bother me with them?

[Terepin]

Originally posted by a Dad:

Figuring stuff out for yourself or just plain discovering things is fun.

Figuring out how to do it is fun. Being clueless about what to do is not. Doom Eternal also doesn't hold your hand, but it does explain what can you do, and it is up to you to learn how to do it.

[Terepin]

Originally posted by Baron:

Originally posted by MrBananaGrabber:

Ditto, I only knew it was in the game when I heard someone in a video mention it. Yet another thing you have to discover purely by chance in this game.

Its good game design. I found secret doors also in a very intuitive way. Now I hammer everything to see if it opens.

How is this fun? How is doing the same repetetive motion all the time throughout the entire game fun?