So this is a straight shooter, was it system shock 2 that had more rpg elements to it?

[Yossarian22]

I didn't have a pc when these games first came out, I remember a kid at my school raving about system shock 2 when it came out. I am loving this game, but I was expecting more rpg elements to it. Is it system shock 2 that had a lot more depth to it?

Again not knocking on this game, I love it, just wondering how much of an upgrade system shock 2 would be if that gets remade too.

[Genghis Tron]

System Shock 2 definitely had more RPG elements to it, but not well implemented IMO. If you didn't know exactly what your build would be, you could dump skills into "useless" skills that wouldn't benefit you as much as pure build.

[spear714]

Yes. System Shock 2 introduced RPG-Mechanics, like Attributes and Skills. The first one is more like a Dungeon Crawler/Metroidvania.

[TheManko]

System Shock 1 used the same engine as Ultima Underworld 1 & 2. It was basically a dungeon crawler in a sci-fi setting. The remake is authentic to the original, so you can definitely feel how this is a game from a different era, coming from different influences than games from the late 90s and 2000s. System Shock 2 used the Thief engine and inherited all the AI behaviors from that game. I'm talking about AI reacting to noise, having different alert states, and you can hide in shadows just like in Thief even though the game has no visibility indicator. System Shock 1 has none of that, and the level design is completely different. The maze like design is similar to how first person dungeon crawlers were like back then, like Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, and many more titles.

[Ricky Icky]

System shock remake is skyrim, system shock 2 is morrowind.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by TheManko:

System Shock 1 used the same engine as Ultima Underworld 1 & 2.

Only for a very loose sense of the word "same". The System Shock engine was significantly more advanced than the Ultima Underworld engine.

[fourfourtwo79]

Doug Church and Marc Le Blanc etc. never hugely were into RPG stats, so yes, that was on SS2. In many ways, System Shock was a direct response to flaws LG perceived to have in Ultima Underworld (which had stats, and dialgoue trees, and all of that). SS2 was developed by Irrational, who, ironically, "streamlined" it all even more into the corridor FPS fare of Bioshock -- and the even more linear shooting gallery of Infinite.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/system-shock-the-oral-history-of-a-forward-thinking-pc-classic
https://www.filfre.net/2021/03/system-shock/

While I like stats -- it's a huge pity that Church seemed to have pretty much disappeared off the map completely. He's been at Valve for years doing whatever. And that was one of the main brains behind Underworld, Shock and Thief.

[Nethlem]

SS2 is the superior SS, always has been, especially with the multiplayer mod.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Nethlem:

SS2 is the superior SS, always has been, especially with the multiplayer mod.

Not even Irrational wanted to put multiplayer in SS2. They were forced to by their publisher.

Some people just have a fetish for playing everything in multiplayer, even if it ruins the intended mood of the experience.

Also there is no "multiplayer mod". Multiplayer was added to SS2 by the first and only official patch, and has always been a part of it since then.

[GepardenK]

Ultima Underworld had stats/skills. System Shock removed stats/skills. System Shock 2 added stats/skills back in again. Bioshock removed stats/skills once more.

I'm with System Shock 1's thinking on this one. The "need firearms 4 to equip rifle" stuff in SS2 feels arbitrary. It was even controversial at the time, SS2 got great reviews but many though the skill system was unnecessary and archaic.

[FilthAutomaton]

Originally posted by Ricky Icky:

System shock remake is skyrim, system shock 2 is morrowind.

what do you smoke ?

[FilthAutomaton]

Originally posted by ZylonBane:

Originally posted by TheManko:

System Shock 1 used the same engine as Ultima Underworld 1 & 2.

Only for a very loose sense of the word "same". The System Shock engine was significantly more advanced than the Ultima Underworld engine.

oh my god it's zylonbane the famous redditor from r/immersivesim

[Kain]

Originally posted by Ricky Icky:

System shock remake is skyrim, system shock 2 is morrowind.

No.

[moat]

Originally posted by GepardenK:

Ultima Underworld had stats/skills. System Shock removed stats/skills. System Shock 2 added stats/skills back in again. Bioshock removed stats/skills once more.

I'm with System Shock 1's thinking on this one. The "need firearms 4 to equip rifle" stuff in SS2 feels arbitrary. It was even controversial at the time, SS2 got great reviews but many though the skill system was unnecessary and archaic.

I think that it *can* work but it depends on the implementation. For instance, having a greater firearms skill should affect things like reload speed, recoil handling and weapon sway, and also have a greater effect upon heavier weapons. Skill points are kind of odd, now that I think of it, because you get these points that you allocate to abilities to level them up and there's not a lot that is analogous to real life.

I like how at the start of SS2 you had to go through training to get your initial point allocations, that made sense. But then I like how in SS1, you had to find specific upgrade implants to unlock abilities, which is very cyber-punk (and similar to a metroidvania). I like systems where the more you sprint, the more stamina you build, the more you carry and fight (via melee), the more strength you build. The more guns you shoot, the better your firearms handling becomes. The more PSI hypos you take and the more PSI abilities you use, the stronger your psychic skills become.

This way your character progression is shaped by the way you play, and it fits in more with the immersive sim concept.

[[40-1]King_Kosher]

Originally posted by ZylonBane:

Someone people just have a fetish for playing everything in multiplayer, even if it ruins the intended mood of the experience.

Having the option to play SS2 with another person was what made it even better and it doesn´t ruin your SP experience so why the aversion?

While in SP everything is for your use, you need to sacrifice stuff for the other person in MP/Coop,its not like the game didn´t cater to both sides here and while it certainly was a forced afterthought, it did work good and didn´t feel as bad as other games (even TODAY) that were made with Coop in mind

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by TheManko:

System Shock 1 used the same engine as Ultima Underworld 1 & 2. It was basically a dungeon crawler in a sci-fi setting. The remake is authentic to the original, so you can definitely feel how this is a game from a different era, coming from different influences than games from the late 90s and 2000s. System Shock 2 used the Thief engine and inherited all the AI behaviors from that game. I'm talking about AI reacting to noise, having different alert states, and you can hide in shadows just like in Thief even though the game has no visibility indicator. System Shock 1 has none of that, and the level design is completely different. The maze like design is similar to how first person dungeon crawlers were like back then, like Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore, and many more titles.

That explains a lot and was interesting to read as someone new to the series, thank you