Unfortunately I don't like it at all

[Zyrconia]

Don't read this, I'm just venting, but...

I've been hearing now for 20+ years how good System Shock is (to be fair, I always heard it is also clunky and hard to get into, so play SS2 instead) and SS and SS2 have been on my backlog since forever. So when the remake finally came out, after years of uncertainty, I instantly purchased it.

And the first 5-7 hours were pretty good. Now I'm 12 hours in and don't think of SS as being a particularly good game.

And a huge missed opportunity for the devs.

Because my biggest problem with it is the sheer aimlessness of it. I love big games with complicated level designs you get lost in, games that don't hold your hand. But there is an upper limit to this apparently. For the first time even in my gaming history, I'm experiencing a game where I do not know where I am, what my goals are, when I'm progressing I have no idea what I have achieved and where I am in relation to my goal, since I don't even know the goal.

The first level was good and took me 5 hours to thoroughly explore, looking into every nook and cranny.

But the second was bad and completely aimless. The third I don't even remember. I know that I reached the laser button and pressed it. And I know that you are supposed to turn off the laser. Where and how have no idea.

By today's standards the level design is horrific. Nothing in that room screamed “yes, you have reached the laser control room”. Or the button will fire the laser. This is probably faithful to the original, but still bad.

Now I'm on the reactor level, hacked two terminals which opened up something. At least the yellow text which doesn't stay on screen long enough told me so. What did they open? Have no idea. You are supposed to first encounter the problem, then through exploration solve it. I reached a security override for the reactor. Security override doing what? There is no code for it on the level. I found a code that was not labelled on another level and luckily I made a note. It was for this security override. Which I turned on on off. Still can't do more there. There is a level I don't have authorization for and a energy lift that is locked. What even is the goal there. Turning off the reactor? Are you even supposed to be here at this stage. Were you supposed to explore the reactor with such high levels of radiation and fight the foes or were you supposed to turn it off first.

This game feel like half translated to me. 100% completely aimless, now knowing where you are, what you goals are and when you pull a lever, not knowing how that affected your progress.

Plus all the other small things, in no particular other:

1. The level design is completely absent. Just big and complicated for the sake of it being big, no rhyme or reason. Each level has a theme and a few “set pieces”, but in general it is nonsense, does not feel like deigned by a level designer or hand made.
2. The item management is completely overdone and adds nothing to the game. Item management is only good when it serves a purpose. Here with the overall way too small inventory I'm constantly running out of space. There is nothing to be gained by every couple of minutes having to walk over to the recycler. Nor from salving stuff in the inventory if the recycler is too far away. Like the level design, this feature does not feel designed and balanced. I'm swimming in currency on hard. If this was the intended balance and design, junk should auto salvage and it shouldn't be more lucrative to take stuff to the recycler.
3. I'm not into diegetic design, i.e. what Dead Space did with the UI, but here it would be a great mix. It is very hard to tell what ammo you have equipped and if you are in burst mode or not, etc.
4. Unless somehow jump works in surprising ways and you can scale walls, I got stuck in the reactor level. Had to use gas grenades to kill myself.
5. The whole endless revival medical pods system is stupid and was stupid in all the games that attempted it. What's the challenge in endlessly throwing yourself into the meat-grinder as an immortal in a game with saves. It makes healing unnecessary in some levels and the best use for it is teleporting.
6. Ladders are a bit janky.
7. The design of the game screams survival horror on hard. The way I played it. Yet I'm swimming in ammo and healing. This game would greatly benefit from a mode where every shots counts and resource management is very important. Why even have a limited inventory if resource management is trivial.
8. Why do audiologs have such a long animation. Why is holding F is so unresponsive? Why do they all start with and awkward pause and static. Why are most completely uninteresting. This would have been the perfect opportunity to give context to your actions. Things like “God Mike, you are such an idiot. Why did you just try to walk up to the reactor with no preparation? Don't you know there is a security override. Let me explain to you like to a 5 year old how this space-base works and why the security override is in place and what it does.” That would have been a nice way to reward exploration, seeing how well hidden some of the audio logs are. This must be the worst audiolog implementation in gaming.
9. The space flight VR hacking is truly horrendous. I know what a major face lift it got, but yikes. A mode where you completely lack agency, enemies will shoot randomly and you just strafe and prey you won't get hit. Quite hard on hard. Plus, a very stupid interaction: if everything is on hard and you die, you die in real life, but first there is a long animation of you warping back to reality, then a long animation of you dieing, then a long game over screen. Luckily, there is a very short window where F9 is responsive and you can save yourself the wasted time.
10. Every time you enter VR there is message telling you you unlocked the basic attack. Fine I guess... But sometimes you get new options, like a decoy, without having them picked up. Just as you load into VR. There features are never explained, like the rest of the game. But if you die and a medical bed revives you, the extra item is not there and you won't get it back ever. So basically the first time you try a VR hack is the easiest, heavily incentivizing you to quick-save before.
11. At least one elevator is not marked on the map.

And probably more I forgot. Should have taken notes.

Anyway, enough ranting. Don't know if I'll play more. SS has good ideas, in fact I can see all the things it invented, but poor execution.

If not I'll try SS2, see if it any better.

Or even better, replay Deus Ex or Prey... Now those are masterpieces!

[Gandope The Green]

Loved every second until the ending.

[Zyrconia]

Origineel geplaatst door Deridex:

You keep talking about loving complex games, yet you complain that you don't know what to do in the game. Go and grab some easy game with some quest journal and tracker to show you the way to your next linear target.

Yes, because everything is a scale and comes in at a certain point on that scale. Today's casual map marker games on one extreme, what I like is somewhere past the mid point and there is another extreme.

I like going to the gym and being active, but I would not go punch Mike Tyson, not even now, when he is almost 60.

My next holiday might be a safari and it will great to see wild animals, but I wouldn't go and try to survive alone in the jungle for a week or punch a lion.

Don't go to extremes. But SS in rather extreme in its lack of hand-holding.

Other games that are not directly hand holdy are overtly handholdy: the designers did a lot of the heavy lifting though level design and world building to point you in the right direction., so you are not even aware of this. Or at least they did not hide everything.

But here it is too much. I'm not even sure if I'm supposed to progress on the reactor stage as my 4th level. Other posts mentioned retina scanners and other elements I have not encountered yet.

My argument is the following: if the design of the game is that you get some hints, far less than you want and need related to what you need to do, or need to work disproportionately hard to find them compared to your standards, and for the first objective you need to visit 4-6 out of 10 levels, while constantly feeling lost and lacking a goal and the feeling of inhabiting an expertly crafted world and playground made for you, that design is bad.

I was not comparing SS to easy linear games, but mostly to immersive sims. Things like Deus Ex or Dishonored, where I never got lost, at all moments I knew what my goals were and where I was, just didn't know where and how to achieve them and with just a basic urge to explore you found most of the stuff, including relevant notes and secrets.

Another thing I dislike and the thing that prevented me today from booting up the game is the is the conflicting levels design vs a need to backtrack. Backtracking is a great joy, but it need large complex visually distinct levels, where you can instantly tell where you are using your eyes, without having to open up a map. But SS has just a bunch of tiny square rooms, barely any sign posts, no identifiable silhouettes on the map. Backtracking through such a world is a chore.

Doubly so if I'm missing an audio log a key card, which you know will be hidden in some small room of the beaten path. Probably a very inconspicuous one. There is no way to know in which small dark weirdly colored room I've been and which not.

In order for such a treasure search to be fun, the level design needs to be a relatively low number of distinct rooms, not an incredibly high number of small rooms. Purely numerically speaking, the reactor level has 50+ rooms. You don't even know what to count as a room when you look at the map.

I definitely don't feel like backtracking to comb through every corner of who knows how many maps in hopes that I will stumble upon some hint on what my next objective is.

No other game I have encountered has such poor yet needlessly complex level design.

Maybe the fact that people did this once, for SS and have not done it since is a hint that the alternatives are better?

And a very simple very plain quest journal is an absolutely necessary feature in all games ever. SS needs it, Elden Ring needed it, regardless how much fanboys ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about it. If for nothing else, at least for common cutesy and respect towards the players that took a break. Something vague like "hey idiot, there is a laser to shut down somewhere on the base". And then you get updates like "the laser is on level x" and "to shut it down you need to explore the rector and flights". With these journals updating after you discovered the required information of course. That's all that is needed.

Great games in theory do not need it, but it is very welcome. If the levels design does the heavy lifting. But even then you can forget stuff. I am not going to re-listen to all the audio logs just because in 1994 we had no standards for level design. If the logs were interesting, sure. But most are bad. Like I said in my opener, this game has one of the worst audio logs systems I encountered in gaming, with them all starting with a long animation, a pause, static, unresponsive key bind to play the audio log, and then 9/10 times a character saying something completely uninteresting.

[recursor]

Here's the thing. You can turn on mission 1 if you want to be directed, but there is an underlying reason for how the objectives are communicated and structured.

All of your subobjectives can be found from the logs that you find in the station. And there's more to that than just receiving your next direction. It connects you to the human resistance on the station. They were trying to solve the same problems facing you. And while they fell short to SHODAN's horrors, they left you a blueprint to solve the myriad problems that face you. By paying attention to them and their efforts you both benefit mechanically from being directed, but also give their efforts meaning.

It's really a fascinating and somewhat unique way to tie those sort of stories into the flow of the game that gets overlooked. Yes, you need to pay attention to the words of the dead if you don't want to be stumbling around. Standing on their shoulders is the best way forward. Or overlook their efforts to your own detriment.

There's very little that will end up aimless if you do pay attention to those logs:

We got someone! Employee 2-4601, I'm Rebecca Lansing, a Counter-Terrorism consultant for TriOptimum. Here's the situation: Our scans of Citadel Station show a biological outbreak is in progress. We're in a comms blackout since SHODAN is unresponsive, and worse yet the mining laser is charging for a potential strike on Earth! Nathan D'Arcy has an office on the Medical Level’s Central Hub. If he's alive, he'll bring this situation under control. I'll contact you through your Military Neural Implant soon. Lansing out.

• Stop the laser from striking Earth
  
  • Reach D'Arcy's office for details

Althea, I figured out where the laser is pointed. Earth! If we can contain the energy from the laser somehow. Maybe the X-22 from Gamma? Would that get the shield generators to full power? What about the overrides? I have to math this out.

Althea, I have a plan; the only way to stop the mining laser is to fire it into the station's own shields! I barely made it to my office, so you'll need to get up to the Research level, get Isotope X-22 for the shields, and get the Safety Override code for the laser in the Research Library. Head down to Reactor and use X-22 to power the shields. The laser can be fired from the Research central control after you enter the safety override code number-(Gunshot) Ah!

• Stop the laser form striking Earth
  
  • Get Isotope X-22 from Research Gamma
    
  • Use the Safety Override code
    
    • Find the Safety Override code in the Research library
  • Use X-22 to power the shields on the Reactor level
    
  • Fire the laser into the shields

Yearly maintenance of the Tachyon Mining Laser is required to ensure optimal functionality. Maintenance will require the deactivation of the Shield’s Safety Interlocks to allow access to the Tachyon return ports on the outside of the laser. The maintenance crew has the Safety Override Code, but in case of an emergency, a backup is stored in the Research Level’s Science Library. The code needs to be entered into the Safety Override Control panel located on the Reactor Level. WARNING: Failure to re-enable the Safety Override before resuming regular mining operations could result in catastrophic structural damage to the laser.

• Stop the laser form striking Earth
  
  • Get Isotope X-22 from Research
    
  • Use the Safety Override code
    
    • Find the Safety Override code in the Research library
      
    • Use the Safety Override code in the Safety Override panel on the Reactor level
  • Use X-22 to power the shields on the Reactor level
    
  • Fire the laser into the shields

SHODAN has locked down the elevators. Mira says if we can lower the security on the level, we'll be able to gain access to restricted areas and get the lifts moving again. She says smashing cameras and taking the medical CPU nodes off-line will help, but I don't see the point. This thing is everywhere.

• Destroy CPU nodes to leave Medical and access Research

SHODAN's pulling so much power through the system that in order to combat the constant power outages we've been experiencing in Beta Quadrant, we’ve had to install manual switches in Alpha. At least now if there’s a problem with the lights and doors, we can get them working again. Hmm... It's above my paygrade, I know, but what the hell is the A.I. doing with that much power?

• Reset the power in Research Alpha to restore door functionality

Warren, why the hell is the radiation level so high in Gamma around the X-22 storage? I went to get an Enviro-suit and found there are none in inventory. Did SHODAN recall them all? I went to see Sabo on Storage, but he only has Level 1 Enviro-suits, which do nothing against radiation. I'm too close to my Rad count this month and Detox patches make me feel sick to my stomach, so I'm out for the day.

Okay... SHODAN has the laser online, locked onto a target, and is charging it. We can't risk going to the Research Control Room and firing it to expend the charge because we don't know where it's aiming. And if the A.I.'s intentions are... malicious... we could kill thousands of people.

• Stop the laser form striking Earth
  
  • Get Isotope X-22 from Research Gamma
    
    • Stock up on Detox (optional)
  • Use the Safety Override code
    
    • Find the Safety Override code in the Research library
      
    • Use the Safety Override code in the Safety Override panel on the Reactor level
  • Use X-22 to power the shields on the Reactor level
    
  • Fire the laser into the shields from the Research Control Room
    
    • Don't fire it blindly unless you want a Cortex Reaver Celebration

[recursor]

This carries through to all of the other areas of the game. There are some additional guideposts, like notices that an elevator isn't functioning because of the drain of the laser or the biohazard on the executive level. Even the nested complications that you experience are the things that the resistance was working to overcome:

I see you are still alive, insect. Do not be fooled into thinking that you have preserved the home of your species. At this moment, I am finalizing my mutagen virus in one of the Groves. And it will turn all Earthly life into a festering pile of pustulant mutations. Poor, poor, Earthlings.

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth

SHODAN has been doing strange bio-experiments in Beta Grove. It's full of... nightmare-ish creatures. And either the Grove is leaking, or SHODAN has been feeding us the virus through the ventilation system. Regardless, if only we had some Enviro-packs, we could go in, flip the Jettison Enable, and send the Grove into the void.

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth by ejecting the Beta Grove
  
  • Get an Enviro-pack to survive the virus in the grove
    
  • Flip the Jettison Enable
    
  • Send the Grove into the void

Cyborg 82-N: In response to recent, regrettable incidents, I have altered the sequence necessary to jettison Groves. One must now enable the jettisoning of all the remaining Groves before any single one can be launched. To jettison a single Grove, one must do three things: One: Hit the Jettison Enable switch inside all remaining Groves. Two: Activate Master Jettison Enable in Gamma Quadrant. Three: Pull the jettison lever in a specific Grove lounge to launch that Grove.

Look. I want it to be known that I was just following orders. A bunch of suits had the bright idea of using Gamma Grove as a makeshift lifepod. I guess with all of the... dying happening on board they would rather try their luck out in the great black. I hit the Jettison Enable button in the Grove, went back to the Exec level, hit the Master Jettison switch in Gamma, and then flipped the lever in the Grove lounge. It all worked... except it looks like SHODAN disabled post-jettison life support to the Grove. I'm sure they're all dead by now.

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth by ejecting the Beta Grove
  
  • Get an Enviro-pack to survive the virus in the grove
    
  • Hit Jettison Enable switch inside all remaining groves (Alpha, Beta, Delta)
    
  • Activate Master Jettison Enable in Gamma
    
  • Pull the jettison lever in Beta Grove Lounge

We gotta get to the Jettison controls... but Gamma Quad is sealed off! Lara found a maintenance conduit in Beta quad, when she was checking schematics, that can get us to the CPUs on this level. We can then access the Master Jettison controls from the back end. Lemar went into Beta to check the conduit... but he hasn't come back.

SHODAN caused a security breach again. Today, it was displaying random security codes on the screens near the elevator. The worst thing being the maintenance conduit access code. We gotta pull that thing off-line and fix it before we're in a fix!

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth by ejecting the Beta Grove
  
  • Get an Enviro-pack to survive the virus in the grove
    
  • Hit Jettison Enable switch inside all remaining groves (Alpha, Beta, Delta)
    
  • Activate Master Jettison Enable in Gamma
    
    • Get the maintenance conduit access code from the screens near the elevator
      
    • Access Master Jettison Controls from Beta maintenance conduit
      
    • Destroy the CPU nodes using the conduit (optional)
  • Pull the jettison lever in Beta Grove Lounge

Diego... We're going to find that bastard and make sure he pays for the people he's hurt. We checked Beta Grove to see if he tried to escape like the last group of execs did, but found it locked. We checked the circuitry and found the power drain came back to Diego's old room in Beta Quad. We have someone attempting to destroy the lock in Cyberspace, but we're meeting resistance. We're headed to Beta quad now to... (Heavy footsteps) Oh my God... what the hell is that thing?!

Sa&%, I stashed an old prototype Enviro-pack... along with some Plastique. The do0# code to Storage Room 9 is x@^ My log recor?@ was damag#@% I hope you get this

Hey, listen, I need one of those Enviro-packs and I need it now. I know you had one stored away... but I-I don't remember the code to the storage room. It ended in X, I believe... I need that pack right now! I-I mean, we need it. The resistance needs it.

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth by ejecting the Beta Grove
  
  • Unlock Beta grove from Diego's Beta quad room
    
    • Unlock Diego's room via cyberspace
  • Get an Enviro-pack to survive the virus in the grove from Storage Room 9
    
    • The code is "X?X", try combinations
  • Hit Jettison Enable switch inside all remaining groves (Alpha, Beta, Delta)
    
  • Activate Master Jettison Enable in Gamma
    
    • Get the maintenance conduit access code from the screens near the elevator
      
    • Access Master Jettison Controls from Beta maintenance conduit
  • Pull the jettison lever in Beta Grove Lounge

Jettison enable failure. Possible cause: Damage to power relay. Consult diagnostic report in Repair Bay Level 3 for detailed analysis.

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth by ejecting the Beta Grove
  
  • Pull the jettison lever in Beta Grove Lounge
    
    • Consule diagnostic report in Repair Bay Level 3

POWER SYSTEMS FAILURE: MALFUNCTION IN SUBSYSTEM RELAY 428. FOR REPAIR INSTRUCTIONS, PLEASE CONSULT RELAY ANALYZER. BE SURE TO SPECIFY RELAY NUMBER FOR ANALYSIS. MAINTENANCE CORRIDORS ARE NOW ACCESSIBLE.

This interface demodulator no longer functions correctly

Hey Abe, I was unpacking one of these crates labeled "cleaning supplies" but I found a Navigation and Mapping Unit, 6 Interface Demodulators, 4 clips of Magnum 2100 ammo... 3 clips of Minipistol ammo, and a freaking EMP Grenade in there instead! I stuck it all in the storage room in the Beta maintenance area to be safe. Tell the inventory people to label this stuff correctly next time!

• Stop the mutagen virus threat to Earth by ejecting the Beta Grove
  
  • Pull the jettison lever in Beta Grove Lounge
    
    • Retrieve an interface demodulator from Beta storage
      
    • Replace the interface demodulator in relay 428

[Zyrconia]

You can't change difficulty mid game. Which is and has always been stupid and disrespectful in all games that do this.

[Psychic]

Origineel geplaatst door recursor:

There's very little that will end up aimless if you do pay attention to those logs:

Very nice!
You should put this in a Guide (on Steam) so that people can check it out.

[680x0]

I brought a box of donuts does anybody want a donut?

[idum]

Origineel geplaatst door Zyrconia:

Don't read this, I'm just venting, but...

I've been hearing now for 20+ years how good System Shock is (to be fair, I always heard it is also clunky and hard to get into, so play SS2 instead) and SS and SS2 have been on my backlog since forever. So when the remake finally came out, after years of uncertainty, I instantly purchased it.

And the first 5-7 hours were pretty good. Now I'm 12 hours in and don't think of SS as being a particularly good game.

And a huge missed opportunity for the devs.

Because my biggest problem with it is the sheer aimlessness of it. I love big games with complicated level designs you get lost in, games that don't hold your hand. But there is an upper limit to this apparently. For the first time even in my gaming history, I'm experiencing a game where I do not know where I am, what my goals are, when I'm progressing I have no idea what I have achieved and where I am in relation to my goal, since I don't even know the goal.

The first level was good and took me 5 hours to thoroughly explore, looking into every nook and cranny.

But the second was bad and completely aimless. The third I don't even remember. I know that I reached the laser button and pressed it. And I know that you are supposed to turn off the laser. Where and how have no idea.

By today's standards the level design is horrific. Nothing in that room screamed “yes, you have reached the laser control room”. Or the button will fire the laser. This is probably faithful to the original, but still bad.

Now I'm on the reactor level, hacked two terminals which opened up something. At least the yellow text which doesn't stay on screen long enough told me so. What did they open? Have no idea. You are supposed to first encounter the problem, then through exploration solve it. I reached a security override for the reactor. Security override doing what? There is no code for it on the level. I found a code that was not labelled on another level and luckily I made a note. It was for this security override. Which I turned on on off. Still can't do more there. There is a level I don't have authorization for and a energy lift that is locked. What even is the goal there. Turning off the reactor? Are you even supposed to be here at this stage. Were you supposed to explore the reactor with such high levels of radiation and fight the foes or were you supposed to turn it off first.

This game feel like half translated to me. 100% completely aimless, now knowing where you are, what you goals are and when you pull a lever, not knowing how that affected your progress.

Plus all the other small things, in no particular other:

1. The level design is completely absent. Just big and complicated for the sake of it being big, no rhyme or reason. Each level has a theme and a few “set pieces”, but in general it is nonsense, does not feel like deigned by a level designer or hand made.
2. The item management is completely overdone and adds nothing to the game. Item management is only good when it serves a purpose. Here with the overall way too small inventory I'm constantly running out of space. There is nothing to be gained by every couple of minutes having to walk over to the recycler. Nor from salving stuff in the inventory if the recycler is too far away. Like the level design, this feature does not feel designed and balanced. I'm swimming in currency on hard. If this was the intended balance and design, junk should auto salvage and it shouldn't be more lucrative to take stuff to the recycler.
3. I'm not into diegetic design, i.e. what Dead Space did with the UI, but here it would be a great mix. It is very hard to tell what ammo you have equipped and if you are in burst mode or not, etc.
4. Unless somehow jump works in surprising ways and you can scale walls, I got stuck in the reactor level. Had to use gas grenades to kill myself.
5. The whole endless revival medical pods system is stupid and was stupid in all the games that attempted it. What's the challenge in endlessly throwing yourself into the meat-grinder as an immortal in a game with saves. It makes healing unnecessary in some levels and the best use for it is teleporting.
6. Ladders are a bit janky.
7. The design of the game screams survival horror on hard. The way I played it. Yet I'm swimming in ammo and healing. This game would greatly benefit from a mode where every shots counts and resource management is very important. Why even have a limited inventory if resource management is trivial.
8. Why do audiologs have such a long animation. Why is holding F is so unresponsive? Why do they all start with and awkward pause and static. Why are most completely uninteresting. This would have been the perfect opportunity to give context to your actions. Things like “God Mike, you are such an idiot. Why did you just try to walk up to the reactor with no preparation? Don't you know there is a security override. Let me explain to you like to a 5 year old how this space-base works and why the security override is in place and what it does.” That would have been a nice way to reward exploration, seeing how well hidden some of the audio logs are. This must be the worst audiolog implementation in gaming.
9. The space flight VR hacking is truly horrendous. I know what a major face lift it got, but yikes. A mode where you completely lack agency, enemies will shoot randomly and you just strafe and prey you won't get hit. Quite hard on hard. Plus, a very stupid interaction: if everything is on hard and you die, you die in real life, but first there is a long animation of you warping back to reality, then a long animation of you dieing, then a long game over screen. Luckily, there is a very short window where F9 is responsive and you can save yourself the wasted time.
10. Every time you enter VR there is message telling you you unlocked the basic attack. Fine I guess... But sometimes you get new options, like a decoy, without having them picked up. Just as you load into VR. There features are never explained, like the rest of the game. But if you die and a medical bed revives you, the extra item is not there and you won't get it back ever. So basically the first time you try a VR hack is the easiest, heavily incentivizing you to quick-save before.
11. At least one elevator is not marked on the map.

And probably more I forgot. Should have taken notes.

Anyway, enough ranting. Don't know if I'll play more. SS has good ideas, in fact I can see all the things it invented, but poor execution.

If not I'll try SS2, see if it any better.

Or even better, replay Deus Ex or Prey... Now those are masterpieces!

It's a skill issue. Play easier games.

[idum]

Origineel geplaatst door Zyrconia:

But I went back to play the original Thief and it is neither a good game nor a good formula.

One cannot be taken seriously for writing such a statement. Thief is by far the best stealth game ever made. The game is challenging, intelligent and unmatched in execution. Play other games instead of starting long, pointless discussions here in the forum.

[Zyrconia]

Origineel geplaatst door idum:

Origineel geplaatst door Zyrconia:

But I went back to play the original Thief and it is neither a good game nor a good formula.

One cannot be taken seriously for writing such a statement. Thief is by far the best stealth game ever made. The game is challenging, intelligent and unmatched in execution. Play other games instead of starting long, pointless discussions here in the forum.

Yeah, people don't like it when you ♥♥♥♥ on their beloved classics.

To be fair, I would react the same way if you told me that Deux Ex or Fallout 2 were not great games.

[philbe63]

As the original poster indicated, they want to do game design as well. Go forth and make something. I wish you nothing but success. If you don't like this game, you don't have to play it. If you want a better game, go make one. I only ask that you be respectful to those who paved the way into a genre that didn't even exist. Go back to the beginning and play Ultima Underworld. My first ever gaming experience was Pong. And now I get to play this. Outside of actually plugging into the Matrix, this is awesome!

[Coldhands]

Origineel geplaatst door Zyrconia:

Origineel geplaatst door idum:

One cannot be taken seriously for writing such a statement. Thief is by far the best stealth game ever made. The game is challenging, intelligent and unmatched in execution. Play other games instead of starting long, pointless discussions here in the forum.

Yeah, people don't like it when you ♥♥♥♥ on their beloved classics.

To be fair, I would react the same way if you told me that Deux Ex or Fallout 2 were not great games.

In all honestly, I don't think Deus Ex or Fallout 2 have aged well.

If Night Dive said their next big project was a remake of Deus Ex though (or Thief), I'd totally be on board.

[KntkyFriedCasual]

Thank you for taking the time to explain why you didn't like this game, I get tired of not being able to understand negative experiences. Unfortunately this isn't your niche and for people like me it's a rare treat to get games like this every once in a while.

I have trouble getting sucked into games these days and this one I can't seem to put down, although I tell myself to take a break once I hit cyberspace because to a degree I can understand this part of the game to be underwhelming.

The aimlessness you describe is one of the reasons this game is so immersive to me because the level design and lack of a clear direction puts me into a situation where I need to explore ever nook and cranny until I get a sense of where I need to go. This is fun for me. I like how cool everything looks and every now and then I get to interact with something that doesn't give you any bonuses but adds some charm to the game.

Many of the other things you describe are things most people tend to generalize as "tedious" and "cumbersome" and I hope you understand it all boils down to a persons taste. I personally like the restriction because to me it hasn't felt overdone and I'm currently almost done exploring storage 13 hours in.

I'm not here to question your taste or to prove you wrong, but to say that for people like me this game is a freaking success.

[K I L L E R 89 (FIN)]

Origineel geplaatst door Mr. Popo:

Loved every second until the ending.

Anticlimactic, wasn't it?

[Zyrconia]

Origineel geplaatst door Coldhands:

Origineel geplaatst door Zyrconia:

Yeah, people don't like it when you ♥♥♥♥ on their beloved classics.

To be fair, I would react the same way if you told me that Deux Ex or Fallout 2 were not great games.

In all honestly, I don't think Deus Ex or Fallout 2 have aged well.

If Night Dive said their next big project was a remake of Deus Ex though (or Thief), I'd totally be on board.

Then I really need to replay Deus Ex. Not taking into consideration the low res textures and the amateur save system that resulted in GB of saves (I still have 20+ GB o Deus Ex saves somewhere, unless I'm confusing the game), in my memory Deus Ex holds up incredibly well.

Like I said, 10/10 game vs SS, which is subjectively 3/10.

But fallout 2 did not hold up technically. You really can't play it out of the box on modern systems and high res screens. Maybe there are some fan made mods?