heroes of might and magic decline

[Drake]

i realize the company owning the game franchise has changed hands a few times between 4-5, but i find most of heroes 4's aspects to be the best of the games franchise. heroes 5 had the third tier troops in castles wich i loved but then heroes 6 comes around and its gone down the hole.

some aspects of heroes 4 i loved were the one man heroe armies (the hero was a actual troop not a figment in the background.)
you didnt need heroes in a army you could make armies of pure monster or pure heroes.
caravans were also at their best in heroes 4. heroes 5 still had them but heroes 6 doesnt.

anyone else agree?

[Siddha]

For a lot of people H4 was a low point in the franchise. Mainly because it was different to H3.

I liked H4 when I played it. I liked the artstyle and the mechanics, but I was disappointed by the AI. It seems the AI cannot actually play the game. Did you find that?
I read that the campaigns are the most engaging story wise in the franchise - but I didn't play enough myself to know.

I also like H5; not because I think it's better gameplay wise but because I find it enchanting to while away some time playing it.
I have H6 but have not played it yet; looking forward to

[Drake]

heros 6 doesnt even have a caravan system cause it went with a generalized troops growth system. adding all the troops and secondary towns growth to what ever town you hire the troops in. STUPID!!!! it pretty much forces you to travel between all the towns to keep them defended instead of individually recruiting a towns troops or setting up defensive lines via caravan routes you need to defend.

[Drake]

as for the ai in heros 4 i cant remember if it was good or bad i just remember the awesome game mechanics.

i have a disc version of it and i cant install it with the disc cause of programming engines 3-4 were built upon not liking the new 64-bit os computers are built upon now.

[Siddha]

I have the GoG version of Heroes 4 and it seems to run fine on my W7 64Bit system

[Drake]

its the disc thats the problem the compression program doesnt like the 64 bit system at least thats what i hear the problem is narrowed down to

[Siddha]

Originally posted by Drake:

its the disc thats the problem the compression program doesnt like the 64 bit system at least thats what i hear the problem is narrowed down to

I see
I have not tried to use my own old dics
I got it on GoG during a sale for $2 or something and it seems to work fine

[Drake]

i would of bought it on steam if heroes 4 was offered but only number 3 and 5+ are offered.

there is a heroes 7 but im not really sure im ever going to get it cause of how much i was disapointed with 6 taking the game mechanics in reverse.

[Siddha]

I read many poor reviews of H7
But you cannot trust the Steam score for these games because a lot of players are using the reviews to have a go at Ubisoft because of the online features in the games

[Drake]

for me heroes 3 was the best then heroes 4 and a pretty big distance between those two is 5, then i'd probily have to go with 2 even if i barely remember anything about it lol

[KatArus]

Every Heroes game has it's pros and cons. RNG deciding what skills you get in H3 sent so many of my games up the ass - fixed in H6. But H6 casualized logistics and resourse management so hard, smart logistics was like a third of the game. H5 didn't ♥♥♥♥ up resources and logistics plus skill system got so rich... and RNG is back. FFS. H4 ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up with it's altgrades forcing you to have 2-3 heroes per army and only 7 hero levels required to boost you 80% on creature attack/def or magic damage. Meh.

[Fendelphi]

People need to remember, that a lot of the stuff that people praise H5 for, is the additional upgrade options, which required one of the expansions.

A thing I quickly came to dislike in H5 was how you could cheese combat by focusing on initiative(well, at first I loved it, but it became boring really quick). Having your units make 2-3 attacks each before the enemy could even react was simply broken.
Another issue was that, while the skillwheel gave you a lot of options, there were only few viable ones. Almost every hero wanted to attempt to get their super racial power(like the Sylvan one that made all regular attacks lucky or the dwarven one that made all regular attacks against you unlucky). You practically had to do that, due to how strong the end result would be.
The other skills would simply be picked if you had no alternative.

H6 might have simplified a lot of things(I agree), but at least there are several ways to create a hero(both according to might and magic types and to blood and tears morality).
Also, combat is not dictated by having super high initiative(or decreasing it on the opponent).
It rewards smart planning and a strategic mind.

Also, a bonus of the "zone control" mechanic is that you wouldnt have to play the "cat and mouse" game for eternity(enemy having 1 hero constantly running around taking mines from you).

[Siddha]

Sounds like you like H6

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Siddha:

Sounds like you like H6

I did. A lot of the new stuff they added was very nice IMO. There was also stuff that I didnt like.
Simplification of resources seemed like a step back, and the requirement to always be online to use your Dynasty stuff(including campaign and custom heroes for hotseat) was dumb as hell.

The Dynasty system itself was cool though. Gave you something "to do" while you refined your gameplay(grinding new weapon levels and making cool heroes).
The combat had a lot more depth than previously, as even the low tier 1-3 were more beefy and had several active and passive abilities that were useful even late game.
The Faction abilities and passives help define each factions playstyle and the heroes for each faction had several ways to be made(depending on Might or Magic, and if you went Blood or Tears), giving a single faction more replayability than previously(Several ways to make a Haven Hero and to use your army in different ways).

The difference in tactics when playing Sanctuary compared to Inferno or Necropolis made it a succesful new addition to the franchise.

If you think back on H3, the different factions were not that different. They looked differently, and did have slightly different stats up through the tiers, but they played more or less the same in the end(some were slightly better defensively, others were slightly better offensively). Each faction had their "slow but tough" early tier unit, something ranged and something fast. There were a few passives here and there(not a lot) and that was about it.
Back then, it was awesome, but compared to now, there is simply no depth to the combat system. It is simply a matter of having more units than your opponent and not making any target priority mistakes.

In H5, we got alternative upgrades(very good) and there were a few passives and active abilities(more on the high tiered units). However, low tier units quickly became just a "the more the better" tool(like in H3) and died by the hundreds before long, having little impact in the late game, as their numbers dwindled quickly by AoE and thus lost effectiveness.

On top of that, the initiative system allowed for some very one-sided fights once you learned to abuse it.
Basically Haste and Slow/stun effects where some of the most potent spells you could have, because it could allow you several attacks/spell casts before the enemy even got an action.
And as I said, to finish it off, the top tier hero skills were extremely good(OP!) and you basically had to go for them in each game to stay competetive. That basically made hero creation the same routine every time you played.

H4 had some interesting ideas(actual fighting heroes), but also a lot of bad ones(excluding unit buildings being a major one).

Overall, I enjoyed the hero creation/customization and combat in H6 more, but that does not mean I did not enjoy the previous versions(played ALOT of both H3 and H5) and it does not mean that H6 is the better game overall(several issues, especially due to the Flux/Online required stuff).
But the stuff that I find most interesting in a Heroes of Might and Magic game, I found was done better in H6(the tactical combat and hero creation/customization).

[Drake]

i like how the necromancers worked in heroes 5 with the essence points that limited how much you could ressurect a week.

if ea actually took the best aspects of each of the heroes games they would have a killer game also if they did it right lol.

a 2nd upgrade for all units, dont uniform population into one big pool (aka bring back caravans), bring back heroes as seperate units in the army (maybe have them have their own slot as a "commander" and a second "sub-commander") throw the flux/online requirement into the pits of the inferno castle.

just to name a few lol

[Siddha]

Hey Fendelphi - thanks for that overview
Have played some H3 &H4 & H5 but not as deep as you by the sound of it
Have not played H6 yet
I like what I hear from you about the gameplay mechanics
How about the story ?