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I thought if I should mention this in my (positive) review, but decided to omit it, and just say that I've played NITW as a *true* role playing/storytelling game, and enjoyed very much that I "was" someone who thinks nothing like me and Mae and I probably don't share anything regarding ethics, or maybe any aspect at all.
I also hold the opinion that everyone should be allowed and encouraged to express their ideas 100% freely -- especially if they can present them as "eloquently" as they did in this game -- otherwise, without feedback, things will surely start to rot. And we had some truly rotten ideologies on this planet already, so if someone thinks Socialism is a good idea, let's discuss what the risks are and what alternatives there are. (Not here, of course, this forum is hardly a sufficient place for a meaningful debate.)
I agree with this, really I do, but for the most part I personally think this game does have a socialist agenda. Its not a hidden agenda, but its still there.
While the characters talk about their issues for the most part, you can still see that the issues regarding Possums Springs are caused by capitalism, and if you pay attention to the dialogue In NITW, all of the important characters talk about socialism, and how they wish to smash capitalism or whatever. There isn't a differing mindset, or if there is I havent seen it yet.
its clear as day that the important characters are socialist, but I don't know if the characters COMPLETELY represent the developers state of mind. To make this clearer, I'm working on a game right this second, and I have a character who thinks the best way to get information out of people is to torture them before anything else.
Obviously this isn't a mindset I share with my character, but I should mention that he's one of the only characters who thinks like this in my game. Everybody else either believes in due process, or to just eliminate their enemies when they have the chance. There's different mindsets in my story, so I cant be accused to pushing forth any narritives.
Not that I care mind you. A creator is allowed to put forth whatever agenda they want, I kind of think that's the main goal in any sort of artistic media.
Plus, Its not like they're using subliminal messages, unless you count the "Mayday" nickname for Mae having socialist roots though I don't think this is a 'subliminal message' as most people aren't going to know that. Its more of a socalist easter egg.
This is why I don't mind at all if any story has a specific agenda, even if said agenda is perhaps based on a fringe (or fallen) ideology, as long as the entire structure of the story is well constructed artistically. I feel the latter certainly is the case with NITW, and I'm confident if I could talk to any of the characters, I could show them the errors in their judgments, at least how "Socialism" isn't going to help them, because I find it charming in a weird way that Americans would ever consider Socialism to be a better way of living compared to what they've known. I personally have this advantage over them of actually having experienced what it's like to be born and live in a so-called ex-Socialist country (Hungary), so I know full well that the only thing that Socialism can produce is decay -- because it's built on a deadly lie.
The late Margaret Thatcher had a witty saying about Socialism: "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." It's 100% true. By pretending that the state will take care of everyone the people are indoctrinated to become drones, silent slaves who'd do anything for the system in order to get their pittance. Without a natural hierarchy -- remember, in a socialist structure it's just the drones and the state -- personal responsibility and personal pride dithers away, and that's what causes the system to start falling apart. Nobody is going to care, and everybody'll try to find semi-illegal shortcuts to gain some minor advantage. Nobody will take pride in anything, and nobody will take responsibility for anything.
A much better social structure would be perhaps some kind of laissez-faire capitalism, a free market, in which people are encouraged to become self-reliant by starting and nurturing their own small businesses. By working hard -- for themselves -- and enjoying the fruits of their own efforts they'll start experiencing professional pride, a true sense of accomplishment and they'll never look back.
Unfortunately, such a government would hardly be desirable to politicians and other powermongers, because citizens, capable of providing for themselves, don't require bureucrats, let alone rulers over them -- so, even though the people of Possum Springs might be dead wrong in their wishes regarding social structure, in reality they hardly have a real chance of getting out of their misery by just sitting and feeling sorry for themselves and hoping for a miracle. Nobody likes to hear that it's mostly their own fault that they're in such a bad situation, so if they're angry, it's not a surprise. I think this is very well reflected in NITW's story, and it also challenges you, the person who playes the game, to think for yourself and explain why you think they're wrong. It's a good exercise for the mind and imagination.
I think stories that challenge your current ideas are the best kind of stories, so I think you've made a wise decision of using characters in your game who see the world differently, as long as you as an author honestly try to think with the character's mind and avoid them being "evil just for evilness' sake". At any rate, I wish you much success with your creative efforts and thank you for the conversation! :)
Even the basic theory can be identified as erroneous: "*IF* everyone plays nicely, then and only then everybody will benefit". Problem is that there'll always be people who think can outsmart the others and grab just a bit more than they might "deserve", and the irreversible corruption starts. It's human nature. It's reality.
(Communism is even more absurd as it expects people to put in as much as they can and take only according to their "needs". But how can you measure individual capability and requirements? Again: it wouldn't even work in a society of braindead ants, and though Communism has been attempted several times with humans, curiously, in every one of the cases resulted in horrible suffering and hundreds of thousands, even millions of dead.)
As for the seemingly free benefits like education, healthcare, parental leave and so on are nowhere near as good as if they'd be implemented via other means. Employers are interested in getting the best quality work force, so they are happy finance the training, healthcare (including mental aspects like relaxation), transportation and so on. The secret is: personal responsibility. In a socialist (shared) state nobody cares: it's not THEIR problem, so it's corruption again.
The centralized redistribution of wealth is a nonsense. You've mentioned European countries -- I happen to live in one. There's a very clear difference between European countries. Those of the "ex-Socialist" countries are magnitudes poorer than their luckier, "western" siblings are. There are many reasons for this, but I assure you it's not because the western citizens were playing nicely while the easters were lazy. You might want to ponder about the basic wealth these western countries have -- where and how they might have acquired those? Probably not a gift from Santa. :)
I'm pretty sure I mentioned how its not communism. I think I even said I'd prefer socialism to capitalism if we could get it right.
As for the game itself, well, I played it I time and I did not notice any socialistic ideas. Yeah, small town is dying because of problems in country's economy policy but how is it related to socialism? You know, there is more than 2 political systems. And if you are disappointed in capitalism you do not have to become socialist, you can become a nazi, a primitive paganist or anything else. Plus capitalism is just an economical system, whereas socialism is social, political and economical system. There is even political system called social capitalism and market socialism.
"Any proofs besides your own speculations?"
Its been a long time since I thought about both Night In The woods, and this thread, But I do remember reading somewhere that the creators held socialist beliefs.
I don't know about definitive proof, but these a lot of subtext in Night In The Woods where you can see this. IIRC, Even Mae's old nickname "Mayday" or something had a socialist background, and in a game where you have a bunch of characters trying to have a little socialist group, Mae's nickname can't be a coincidence.
"You know, there is more than 2 political systems."
Yeah, but in this game we're talking about socialism and capitalism. I'd talk about the Nazi's if they were here.
"Plus capitalism is just an economical system, whereas socialism is social, political and economical system."
Many see Capitalism as the direct opposite to Socialism and vice-versa. Your sentence here doesn't exactly matter much given the subject matter.
"There is even political system called social capitalism and market socialism."
Again, does this really matter when the characters are talking about regular capitalism and regular socialism? Imagine if I said "Capitalism is terrible! We all need to be socialists or this country is doomed!" If no one brings up anything related to market socialism or such, then its just not in the conversation.
Towards the ending, in the final act, Bea literally quotes Karl Marx when she says "From each according to his ability". Bea mentions multiple times she is in a Young Socialists club. There is constant referral to a massacre, where capitalists attacked miners. Not only is this imagery blantantly socialist, but takes direct inspiration from the Marxist film 'Battleship Potemkin' made in the USSR.
Socialist ideology is women into the game. It depicts the decay of capitalism as it fails the city and people of Possum Springs.
This wasn't a story-game about socialism, but a story-game written by a socialist. That's something I appreciated. Honestly, it's tempting to give big sermons about history and class struggle; just showing it as part of the fabric of life was refreshing.
Here's a CuriousCat response from Scott Benson (Bombsfall)[curiouscat.qa] where he talks about how he sees his politics as inseparable from his storytelling in NITW.
Wow. That film's a classic of course, but, there's a reason a story-game set in a Midwest old mining town, created by people who grew up in Midwest mining towns, has a story about miners facing violence for unionizing, and it's not because of old Russian movies. It actually happened, rather a lot. Look at the history of the United Mine Workers, look at who the Pinkertons were (and are). Most cities you can visit will have old union halls with murals like those depicted in the game. Or, speaking of classic movies, there's Matewan[www.imdb.com].
Sure, reach your own conclusions, but, the history's all around you, half-forgotten, but shaping your life. That's a part of what NITW was about.