RT?

[TiGReX]

Do feature like Ray Tracing will be added to this game? I imagine it. And it will look just fantastic

[Moban351]

look at my post, you can get global illumination now with reshade and Pascal's global illumination plug-in

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Moban351:

look at my post, you can get global illumination now with reshade and Pascal's global illumination plug-in

^This is an option though it isn't a good one, however it is the best you are getting. What he suggested will still be nice but isn't real ray-tracing as it is only in screen space and extremely limited. Unfortunately, this game wasn't the most popular so it is almost impossible odds that it will get such support going forward.

[Moban351]

Is this real Ray Tracing?
This question probably comes from the comparison people are making with Nvidia's Ray Tracing technique, since it takes advantage of out of screen information to deliver accurate results.
Marty McFly's shader is hooked to informations provided by ReShade (depth buffer). The end result is a Screen Space Ray Tracing calculation, just like Unigine SSRTGI (Ray Traced Global Illumination), which indeed is a form of Ray Tracing.
If you still have doubts on this point, I'll be happy to have a peacefully discussion about it.

https://reshade.me/forum/shader-discussion/5450-guide-to-ray-tracing-with-reshade

[Moban351]

totally disagree Xengre, it's a great option. It greatly enhances the look of games. You get bounced lighting that you otherwise wouldn't get. Games look terrible without it after using it for a while.

[Moban351]

look up Digital Dreams on youtube. He shows the before/after on a ton of games with global illumination.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Moban351:

totally disagree Xengre, it's a great option. It greatly enhances the look of games. You get bounced lighting that you otherwise wouldn't get. Games look terrible without it after using it for a while.

You can't disagree about it because it isn't real ray-tracing. It is screen space which means it doesn't handle ANYTHING off screen and certain other elements. Example, a big point made by Nvidia's Battlefield tech demo presentation for their ray-tracing was rendering fire and reflections from offscreen sources. This screen space ray-tracing cannot do that. It loses a LOT Of scene details, especially relating to other light sources and reflections off screen. Even Nvidia's ray-tracing isn't actually real ray-tracing as it is just features of ray-tracing and a limited close enough technique to use some of its advantages. The real deal is still too processing intensive for the time being. Does it still look good? Yes, and I agreed so thus there is still nothing to disagree about even there. You just failed to read my post...

[Moban351]

yes, lol i can disagree. It's ray tracing but only screen space as the author of the shader said. What I disagree about is you saying it's not a good option. It's a great option.

[RCMidas]

That's like saying vegan chicken is real chicken because it has the word 'chicken' in it. It may be extremely similar in appearance, taste, texture, and nutrients, but ultimately is not actually chicken.

[Moban351]

Is this real Ray Tracing?
This question probably comes from the comparison people are making with Nvidia's Ray Tracing technique, since it takes advantage of out of screen information to deliver accurate results.
Marty McFly's shader is hooked to informations provided by ReShade (depth buffer). The end result is a Screen Space Ray Tracing calculation, just like Unigine SSRTGI (Ray Traced Global Illumination), which indeed is a form of Ray Tracing.
If you still have doubts on this point, I'll be happy to have a peacefully discussion about it.

[Moban351]

https://reshade.me/forum/shader-discussion/5450-guide-to-ray-tracing-with-reshade

i'd love to see you discussion with Pascal about this. I'm sure you'd be teaching him a thing or two.

[Moban351]

it's the same technique used in Unigine, as stated. Read more here: https://developer.unigine.com/en/devlog/20170531-unigine-2.5

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Moban351:

yes, lol i can disagree. It's ray tracing but only screen space as the author of the shader said. What I disagree about is you saying it's not a good option. It's a great option.

It is fake ray-tracing that provides some of the features and only cut down to being based on the visible screen, which is a huge deal with regards to ray-tracing.

I said it isn't a great option but it is the best option available because they wont be adding Nvidia's ray-tracing, which I also pointed out isn't full fledged ray-tracing, either.

Originally posted by Moban351:

https://reshade.me/forum/shader-discussion/5450-guide-to-ray-tracing-with-reshade

i'd love to see you discussion with Pascal about this. I'm sure you'd be teaching him a thing or two.

What he says is:

The end result is a Screen Space Ray Tracing calculation, just like Unigine SSRTGI (Ray Traced Global Illumination), which indeed is a form of Ray Tracing.

It is a FORM of ray-tracing, or to be more accurate it isn't full fledged ray-tracing but a heavily cut down version. It is even more cut down than Nvidia's which isn't full fledged ray-tracing as Reshade's is screen space based. To give you an example of how bad far this is from real ray-tracing imagine you are looking at a reflective mirror/window in a dark room and 3 feet behind you is a MASSIVE ultra bright fire or spotlight. You will not see that light up ANYTHING in the room in your view as it is out of your view nor will it show up in the reflection/mirror because it doesn't take off screen sources/data into account (as if it does not exist). Don't mix this up with basic static/dynamic lighting methods also used with ray-tracing to help simulate where it falls short the results as best as possible.

[Moban351]

"The end result is a Screen Space Ray Tracing calculation, just like Unigine SSRTGI (Ray Traced Global Illumination), which indeed is a form of Ray Tracing"

I understand what you're saying, but to say this isn't real ray tracing cause it's not out of screen is foolish. It's still ray tracing, just screen space. Your first post you strait up said this isn't real ray tracing, and you're totally wrong.

stop getting stuck on ray tracing terminology. It's ray tracing whether it's in or out of screen. Ray Tracing can be implemented a number of ways.

Ask yourself why this guy can create this and put it into reshade yet game authors haven't done so? I find that pretty odd considering just how much better this makes games look. It's like I just got a graphics upgrade for almost all games, and for what, $5 on Patreon? It's amazing.

Do you really think you're more of an expert on this topic than Pascal is, or the developers of Unigine? They are doing screen space ray tracing as well. Are you saying the developers over there are wrong to call it ray tracing?

You must be making 400k a year as you know more that some absolutely great developers that are around today.

[Xengre]

It isn't true ray-tracing. Is that better? It is a heavily cut down version which is what I've been saying the entire time. Idk why you are trying to argue semantics when the meaning is clear. That is like claiming something is chicken, as presented prior, when only 4% of it is chicken and the rest is tofu or something else. Actual proper ray-tracing would drop FPS down to around 0-2 which is why it isn't used because the data and calculations involved is that much greater. That is why games don't typically offer it and why even Nvidia's modified cut down variant still doesn't offer full quality ray-tracing, yet.

OP asked if feature like ray-tracing will be added and you gave an answer. I elaborated on your answer so they know what is involved and don't have expectations that aren't actually going to be met. Screen space ray-tracing is extremely low quality ray-tracing so while it technically is ray-tracing it is merely due to a technicality and not because it properly fits the concept of ray-tracing, as it is actually that cut down.

Did you completely miss my example showing how significant the difference is? Mind you that was a simple example and leaves out a LOT lost from not using full ray-tracing.

Originally posted by Xengre:

[To give you an example of how bad far this is from real ray-tracing imagine you are looking at a reflective mirror/window in a dark room and 3 feet behind you is a MASSIVE ultra bright fire or spotlight. You will not see that light up ANYTHING in the room in your view as it is out of your view nor will it show up in the reflection/mirror because it doesn't take off screen sources/data into account (as if it does not exist). Don't mix this up with basic static/dynamic lighting methods also used with ray-tracing to help simulate where it falls short the results as best as possible. [/quote]

Did you ever bother to consider people with first hand knowledge on these topics also play video games and visit these forums? Screen space ray-tracing is effectively pseudo/fake/partial and extremely limited ray-tracing. However you want to describe it, screen based ray-tracing is extremely limited compared to what even Nvidia offers much less full quality ray-tracing. Why you are arguing this is beyond me because it has, quite literally, nothing to do with my posts which was just to give OP information about what to expect from this ray-tracing option and any future possibilities for the game.

[Moban351]

again, it's ray tracing. You seem to be the one that doesn't understand, yet you talk to me, and everyone else here as if you are some expert. Stop thinking your'e smarter than everyone else and know more. You've already shown you simply don't really understand what it is.

you hear "ray tracing" and you think of one implementation of it, and think that's the only thing ray tracing is.

let's look at the definition of ray tracing:

"In computer graphics, ray tracing is a rendering technique for generating an image by tracing the path of light as pixels in an image plane and simulating the effects of its encounters with virtual objects."

nowhere does it say "except when only screen space where access to the depth buffer is only allowed, then it's not true ray tracing"