Haven't played in over a decade. Some questions

[malkavius77]

So I decided to buy the game on PC recently because I saw it on sale. I used to play it for hundreds of hours on my ps3 many years ago and min maxxed it to death. I did a quick 2hand warrior playthrough just to get my bearing.

So I remember back in the day it was largely believed that rogues were top dog single target dps. But playing a DW warrior just had slightly less single target DPS but much more AoE damage and surviveability. Is this still the case? Trying to decide which one I want to do a full run through with since I never had awakening,golems,leliana and morrigan DLC. Currently doing AW/bloodmage build but I forgot how utterly dull the playstyle was. Sure I can tank out the ass but forgot there isn't much else too them but it's still early.

[ADEC Inc]

Rogue still has amazing dps with backstabs included, but a warrior with armor is obviously more durable. The game was only patched a few times ever, so it should still be as you remembered.

[Mewsha]

Mages in general are considered the best class in DAO because they have the most utility and the best offensive spells. At higher difficult it's less about damage and more about crowd control. They can manage mobs the best.

Mana clash can annihilate most mobs. Glyph of Paralysis and Repulsion can be combo'd before a fight even begins and things like Crushing Prison and Cone of Cold CC enemies while doing great damage. Misdirection Hex can also save your frontline from a lot of pain.

Mages are also the only healers in the game, and that can mean your team will survive far more often if you somehow manage to mess up, and it means you use less resources like health pots and injury kits. They become almost redundant with a healer on the team.

Base mages just have something broken for every encounter in the game. Specializations is where it gets crazy.

Blood Mages break the game. Blood Wound can make a lot of difficult parts of this game a cake walk because it's a large AoE damage spell that paralyzes enemies and has no friendly fire. Pretty much the only immune creatures are the undead. Surprisingly spirits are still affected despite not having any blood either.

Arcane Warriors can also become better tanks than warriors if you spec them right. They can solo just about anything in my experience even on Nightmare difficulty. It's pretty ridiculous to see when you build for it yourself, but very fun.

Of course if you don't like playing mage yourself for whatever reason, you can always put either Wynne or Morrigan on your team and try to spec them in a way that helps you best with the tactics page. I personally always have Wynne in my party for heals.

[malkavius77]

I'm aware of the power of mages but this was about rogues and warriors so I dunno why you made a big post about mages?

[Mewsha]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

I'm aware of the power of mages but this was about rogues and warriors so I dunno why you made a big post about mages?

You said you're doing a AW playthrough. It doesn't really get any stronger than that. If you have one in your party already, then you should be set on surviveability for the majority of encounters.

If you like how rogue plays, then pick a rogue build and I wouldn't really focus much on survivability because your mage will take care of that.

That allows you to spec your rogue how you wish unless you're doing it solo?

For example, if you see an ogre running up on you, pause, switch to mage, use misdirection hex and telekinetic weapons. If it's a mob of mages, switch to mage, use mana blast. If your rogue is about to die, force field + heal.

That allows the rogue to focus on DPS and whatever other build they want to. You can be a full glass cannon and still survive.

There's only a few moments in the game where you're separated from your party.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

I'm aware of the power of mages but this was about rogues and warriors so I dunno why you made a big post about mages?

You said you're doing a AW playthrough. It doesn't really get any stronger than that. If you have one in your party already, then you should be set on surviveability for the majority of encounters.

If you like how rogue plays, then pick a rogue build and I wouldn't really focus much on survivability because your mage will take care of that.

That allows you to spec your rogue how you wish unless you're doing it solo?

For example, if you see an ogre running up on you, pause, switch to mage, use misdirection hex and telekinetic weapons. If it's a mob of mages, switch to mage, use mana blast. If your rogue is about to die, force field + heal.

That allows the rogue to focus on DPS and whatever other build they want to. You can be a full glass cannon and still survive.

There's only a few moments in the game where you're separated from your party.

Yes I am playing AW currently but I forgot how utterly dull it was for most of the game. I know it can tank better than anything else but it's boring, and I was asking about my next play through. You haven't addressed my question about rogue vs warrior dps at all. You just keep going all over the place with your posts that seem dead set on talking about everything but what I asked lol. To be fair I did have "questions" in the topic when I really only had 1. I understand how all the mechanics work the only difference was I played on ps3 so a few were a bit different but 95% the same.

Let me try again. The core question was on which was better DPS between rogue and DW warrior. From my experience DW warrior was better overrall many years ago since it was tankier overrall and did near same single target dps and much more AoE dps. And if that is still the case or if there were any changes to them over the years, or if awakening bumps one up to be much stronger etc. since I never played awakening.

[Mewsha]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

You said you're doing a AW playthrough. It doesn't really get any stronger than that. If you have one in your party already, then you should be set on surviveability for the majority of encounters.

If you like how rogue plays, then pick a rogue build and I wouldn't really focus much on survivability because your mage will take care of that.

That allows you to spec your rogue how you wish unless you're doing it solo?

For example, if you see an ogre running up on you, pause, switch to mage, use misdirection hex and telekinetic weapons. If it's a mob of mages, switch to mage, use mana blast. If your rogue is about to die, force field + heal.

That allows the rogue to focus on DPS and whatever other build they want to. You can be a full glass cannon and still survive.

There's only a few moments in the game where you're separated from your party.

Yes I am playing AW currently but I forgot how utterly dull it was for most of the game. I know it can tank better than anything else but it's boring, and I was asking about my next play through. You haven't addressed my question about rogue vs warrior dps at all. You just keep going all over the place with your posts that seem dead set on talking about everything but what I asked lol. To be fair I did have "questions" in the topic when I really only had 1. I understand how all the mechanics work the only difference was I played on ps3 so a few were a bit different but 95% the same.

Let me try again. The core question was on which was better DPS between rogue and DW warrior. From my experience DW warrior was better overrall many years ago since it was tankier overrall and did near same single target dps and much more AoE dps. And if that is still the case or if there were any changes to them over the years, or if awakening bumps one up to be much stronger etc. since I never played awakening.

Awakening doesn't change much there. Whether you're solo or in a party does.

I'm assuming you're playing in a party as most people do. The answer is going to vary over who is better based on that question alone, because of things like mages who have access to AoE CC and heals.

That eliminates the need to really use a dual-wielding warrior unless you truly wish to do it for some reason.

Secondly, rogue is better in terms of DPS because of backstabs and stealth, so they have reliable crits. Yes warriors can build into strength and have a high base damage, but rogues can build into cunning to raise their damage as well. They'll also be able to spec into dexterity more easily and benefit from it more than a warrior.

I've played this game since 2009 as well, and I don't remember DW warrior being considered better in terms of DPS compared to a rogue because again, you're typically building according to your party.

If surviveability is the only concern, then mages solve the issue, hence why I'm "dead set" on mentioning mages.

The other reason I assumed you were in a party is because usually solo rogues are played much differently. People spec into the ranger tree and rely on bombs, salves, and gear switches before encounters. I'd imagine a dual-wielding warrior would make it further but I've never tried it myself.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Yes I am playing AW currently but I forgot how utterly dull it was for most of the game. I know it can tank better than anything else but it's boring, and I was asking about my next play through. You haven't addressed my question about rogue vs warrior dps at all. You just keep going all over the place with your posts that seem dead set on talking about everything but what I asked lol. To be fair I did have "questions" in the topic when I really only had 1. I understand how all the mechanics work the only difference was I played on ps3 so a few were a bit different but 95% the same.

Let me try again. The core question was on which was better DPS between rogue and DW warrior. From my experience DW warrior was better overrall many years ago since it was tankier overrall and did near same single target dps and much more AoE dps. And if that is still the case or if there were any changes to them over the years, or if awakening bumps one up to be much stronger etc. since I never played awakening.

Awakening doesn't change much there. Whether you're solo or in a party does.

I'm assuming you're playing in a party as most people do. The answer is going to vary over who is better based on that question alone, because of things like mages who have access to AoE CC and heals.

That eliminates the need to really use a dual-wielding warrior unless you truly wish to do it for some reason.

Secondly, rogue is better in terms of DPS because of backstabs and stealth, so they have reliable crits. Yes warriors can build into strength and have a high base damage, but rogues can build into cunning to raise their damage as well. They'll also be able to spec into dexterity more easily and benefit from it more than a warrior.

I've played this game since 2009 as well, and I don't remember DW warrior being considered better in terms of DPS compared to a rogue because again, you're typically building according to your party.

If surviveability is the only concern, then mages solve the issue, hence why I'm "dead set" on mentioning mages.

The other reason I assumed you were in a party is because usually solo rogues are played much differently. People spec into the ranger tree and rely on bombs, salves, and gear switches before encounters. I'd imagine a dual-wielding warrior would make it further but I've never tried it myself.

The reasons warriors do so much DPS is that STR affects damage AND attack while cunning only affects damage and armor pen. So a DW warrior lands hit more often and precise striking stacks with haste and momentum unlike a rogue who can't reach as much attack speed. Not to mention dual striking with dagger/axe is just absurd DPS. And with their superior AoE damage (if using 2 full sized weapons) and death blow they can spam abilities more and don't need any setup compared to rogues. This was the case years ago and I might prove this next playthrough.

I typically only run 1 mage in my playthroughs so spamming AoEs isn't usually an option till late game after I get everything else that they need for support anyways.

[Mewsha]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

Awakening doesn't change much there. Whether you're solo or in a party does.

I'm assuming you're playing in a party as most people do. The answer is going to vary over who is better based on that question alone, because of things like mages who have access to AoE CC and heals.

That eliminates the need to really use a dual-wielding warrior unless you truly wish to do it for some reason.

Secondly, rogue is better in terms of DPS because of backstabs and stealth, so they have reliable crits. Yes warriors can build into strength and have a high base damage, but rogues can build into cunning to raise their damage as well. They'll also be able to spec into dexterity more easily and benefit from it more than a warrior.

I've played this game since 2009 as well, and I don't remember DW warrior being considered better in terms of DPS compared to a rogue because again, you're typically building according to your party.

If surviveability is the only concern, then mages solve the issue, hence why I'm "dead set" on mentioning mages.

The other reason I assumed you were in a party is because usually solo rogues are played much differently. People spec into the ranger tree and rely on bombs, salves, and gear switches before encounters. I'd imagine a dual-wielding warrior would make it further but I've never tried it myself.

The reasons warriors do so much DPS is that STR affects damage AND attack while cunning only affects damage and armor pen. So a DW warrior lands hit more often and precise striking stacks with haste and momentum unlike a rogue who can't reach as much attack speed. Not to mention dual striking with dagger/axe is just absurd DPS. And with their superior AoE damage (if using 2 full sized weapons) and death blow they can spam abilities more and don't need any setup compared to rogues. This was the case years ago and I might prove this next playthrough.

I typically only run 1 mage in my playthroughs so spamming AoEs isn't usually an option till late game after I get everything else that they need for support anyways.

I always thought of DW warriors more as offtanks. Their durability is what gives them the chance to out DPS a rogue. If a rogue is able to be kept alive, then it's really no contest because of the backstab/crit. They also have access to gear that rewards the dagger playstyle.

What would make a difference is you could say that dex also benefits tankier characters because it allows them to evade attacks rather than simply being damage sponges. A DW build isn't going to require a lot of stamina either, so heavier armor won't be as much of a bother because it's more auto-attack focused.

So it's not like playing a DW warrior build would be worse, and from a gameplay perspective it might be preferred as they get right into the frontline.

You could always have the best of both worlds and just have either Zevran or Leiliana be your DW Rogue while you play a DW warrior.

As for the mage it's gonna depend on who you choose, but both Morrigan and Wynne have a pretty easy path to being a powerful source of CC early on to support your squishy Rogue if that's what you want to do.

[-Mario-]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

You said you're doing a AW playthrough. It doesn't really get any stronger than that. If you have one in your party already, then you should be set on surviveability for the majority of encounters.

If you like how rogue plays, then pick a rogue build and I wouldn't really focus much on survivability because your mage will take care of that.

That allows you to spec your rogue how you wish unless you're doing it solo?

For example, if you see an ogre running up on you, pause, switch to mage, use misdirection hex and telekinetic weapons. If it's a mob of mages, switch to mage, use mana blast. If your rogue is about to die, force field + heal.

That allows the rogue to focus on DPS and whatever other build they want to. You can be a full glass cannon and still survive.

There's only a few moments in the game where you're separated from your party.

Yes I am playing AW currently but I forgot how utterly dull it was for most of the game. I know it can tank better than anything else but it's boring, and I was asking about my next play through. You haven't addressed my question about rogue vs warrior dps at all. You just keep going all over the place with your posts that seem dead set on talking about everything but what I asked lol. To be fair I did have "questions" in the topic when I really only had 1. I understand how all the mechanics work the only difference was I played on ps3 so a few were a bit different but 95% the same.

Let me try again. The core question was on which was better DPS between rogue and DW warrior. From my experience DW warrior was better overrall many years ago since it was tankier overrall and did near same single target dps and much more AoE dps. And if that is still the case or if there were any changes to them over the years, or if awakening bumps one up to be much stronger etc. since I never played awakening.

If you wanted a straightforward question you should have just asked it as such. You asked about top dps and the man gave you the answer. Rather than just reiterate your question you would rather be passive aggressive towards the guy trying to help you.

If it's a choice between rogue or warrior, warrior is gonna win out if you focus mainly on damage and not on survivablility. Otherwise rogue since with stealth and feign death you can get yourself out of sticky situations without focusing on stats/equipment with survivablity.

Also if you think the Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage combo is dull you're very likely playing it wrong.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

The reasons warriors do so much DPS is that STR affects damage AND attack while cunning only affects damage and armor pen. So a DW warrior lands hit more often and precise striking stacks with haste and momentum unlike a rogue who can't reach as much attack speed. Not to mention dual striking with dagger/axe is just absurd DPS. And with their superior AoE damage (if using 2 full sized weapons) and death blow they can spam abilities more and don't need any setup compared to rogues. This was the case years ago and I might prove this next playthrough.

I typically only run 1 mage in my playthroughs so spamming AoEs isn't usually an option till late game after I get everything else that they need for support anyways.

I always thought of DW warriors more as offtanks. Their durability is what gives them the chance to out DPS a rogue. If a rogue is able to be kept alive, then it's really no contest because of the backstab/crit. They also have access to gear that rewards the dagger playstyle.

What would make a difference is you could say that dex also benefits tankier characters because it allows them to evade attacks rather than simply being damage sponges. A DW build isn't going to require a lot of stamina either, so heavier armor won't be as much of a bother because it's more auto-attack focused.

So it's not like playing a DW warrior build would be worse, and from a gameplay perspective it might be preferred as they get right into the frontline.

You could always have the best of both worlds and just have either Zevran or Leiliana be your DW Rogue while you play a DW warrior.

As for the mage it's gonna depend on who you choose, but both Morrigan and Wynne have a pretty easy path to being a powerful source of CC early on to support your squishy Rogue if that's what you want to do.

The main reason the DPS is similar is that wars have higher AB and flat out damage is what puts them near rogue. And benefiting more from large weapons that have higher base damage for DW abilities in particular. AS well as the momentum/precise striking/haste stack. Now of course a rogue will out damage them if they can backstab every single enemy but this isn't always the case and I remember it being pretty even if you consider a wars use DW skill tree abilities much more than a rogue and those abilities benefit full weapons more in general. I'm going to do 2 runs with both classes maxxed for dps to really test them out because this might not be the case anymore.

I was considering Zevran for a DW rogue but I remember it being a pain to try and micro him that's why I usually stuck with ranged leliana.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by -Velvet Thunder-:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Yes I am playing AW currently but I forgot how utterly dull it was for most of the game. I know it can tank better than anything else but it's boring, and I was asking about my next play through. You haven't addressed my question about rogue vs warrior dps at all. You just keep going all over the place with your posts that seem dead set on talking about everything but what I asked lol. To be fair I did have "questions" in the topic when I really only had 1. I understand how all the mechanics work the only difference was I played on ps3 so a few were a bit different but 95% the same.

Let me try again. The core question was on which was better DPS between rogue and DW warrior. From my experience DW warrior was better overrall many years ago since it was tankier overrall and did near same single target dps and much more AoE dps. And if that is still the case or if there were any changes to them over the years, or if awakening bumps one up to be much stronger etc. since I never played awakening.

If you wanted a straightforward question you should have just asked it as such. You asked about top dps and the man gave you the answer. Rather than just reiterate your question you would rather be passive aggressive towards the guy trying to help you.

If it's a choice between rogue or warrior, warrior is gonna win out if you focus mainly on damage and not on survivablility. Otherwise rogue since with stealth and feign death you can get yourself out of sticky situations without focusing on stats/equipment with survivablity.

Also if you think the Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage combo is dull you're very likely playing it wrong.

I said "So I remember back in the day it was largely believed that rogues were top dog single target dps. But playing a DW warrior just had slightly less single target DPS but much more AoE damage and surviveability. Is this still the case?". I thought that was pretty straight forward but I did also talk about AW which really had nothing to do with what I really was asking and reiterated it as such afterwards. Perhaps you read it wrong or misunderstood what I was asking. I wasn't intending to be passive aggressive.

Arcane warrior/bloodmage is 90% just stacking passives for the early and mid game so yeah that's pretty boring. It takes a long time for the class to get going but yeah there is literally no way to play an AW/bloodmage "wrong" since it's so easy. I just had forgotten how long it took to get enough levels and gear to truly get to the good stuff.

[Mewsha]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

I always thought of DW warriors more as offtanks. Their durability is what gives them the chance to out DPS a rogue. If a rogue is able to be kept alive, then it's really no contest because of the backstab/crit. They also have access to gear that rewards the dagger playstyle.

What would make a difference is you could say that dex also benefits tankier characters because it allows them to evade attacks rather than simply being damage sponges. A DW build isn't going to require a lot of stamina either, so heavier armor won't be as much of a bother because it's more auto-attack focused.

So it's not like playing a DW warrior build would be worse, and from a gameplay perspective it might be preferred as they get right into the frontline.

You could always have the best of both worlds and just have either Zevran or Leiliana be your DW Rogue while you play a DW warrior.

As for the mage it's gonna depend on who you choose, but both Morrigan and Wynne have a pretty easy path to being a powerful source of CC early on to support your squishy Rogue if that's what you want to do.

The main reason the DPS is similar is that wars have higher AB and flat out damage is what puts them near rogue. And benefiting more from large weapons that have higher base damage for DW abilities in particular. AS well as the momentum/precise striking/haste stack. Now of course a rogue will out damage them if they can backstab every single enemy but this isn't always the case and I remember it being pretty even if you consider a wars use DW skill tree abilities much more than a rogue and those abilities benefit full weapons more in general. I'm going to do 2 runs with both classes maxxed for dps to really test them out because this might not be the case anymore.

I was considering Zevran for a DW rogue but I remember it being a pain to try and micro him that's why I usually stuck with ranged leliana.

I see what you mean. The dagger mainhand and war axe in off-hand could actually do a lot of damage with dual striking active compared to two full-size weapons because I forgot that it only takes into account the main-hand when determining attack speed instead of both weapons.

Do you go into Berserker and Reaver? I always thought the point was to go into Templar as well. Otherwise I don't see how it would survive more often.

Then again like I said, a mage could iron out these kinks with heals and CC. It would be like doing the same damage as a rogue without having to try to get backstabs or specing for that. I just don't know how much more durable it would truly be if you went full damage, but that's not the point for rogue either.

I wonder if anyone has tried that build solo.

[malkavius77]

Originally posted by Baby Ghoul:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

The main reason the DPS is similar is that wars have higher AB and flat out damage is what puts them near rogue. And benefiting more from large weapons that have higher base damage for DW abilities in particular. AS well as the momentum/precise striking/haste stack. Now of course a rogue will out damage them if they can backstab every single enemy but this isn't always the case and I remember it being pretty even if you consider a wars use DW skill tree abilities much more than a rogue and those abilities benefit full weapons more in general. I'm going to do 2 runs with both classes maxxed for dps to really test them out because this might not be the case anymore.

I was considering Zevran for a DW rogue but I remember it being a pain to try and micro him that's why I usually stuck with ranged leliana.

I see what you mean. The dagger mainhand and war axe in off-hand could actually do a lot of damage with dual striking active compared to two full-size weapons because I forgot that it only takes into account the main-hand when determining attack speed instead of both weapons.

Do you go into Berserker and Reaver? I always thought the point was to go into Templar as well. Otherwise I don't see how it would survive more often.

Then again like I said, a mage could iron out these kinks with heals and CC. It would be like doing the same damage as a rogue without having to try to get backstabs or specing for that. I just don't know how much more durable it would truly be if you went full damage, but that's not the point for rogue either.

I wonder if anyone has tried that build solo.

I used to go reaver back in the day but after thinking about it the mental defense of the templar is just much more useful than anything the reaver gives especially since I'll be going dwarf war.

One reason I didn't factor in the mage is because I don't like traditional casters in almost any RPG. Which makes me wish they made some more low magic rpgs. I virtually always build them as support/debuffers and prefer melee heavy parties. It's why the AW always intrigued me but it's play style is quite boring early because you need to grab passives and spells that you can use without having to constantly sheathe your weapon.