Would Duncan have allowed the Dark Ritual?

[Redman]

Since I'm replaying the game again after a lot of time, some questions have started to materialize in my head.

Would Duncan have allowed for the ritual to take place/allow the Warden to do it if he were alive?

In my opinion, he probably would've stopped it since he seemed very set on 'destroying' the darkspawn no matter the price.

What do you think?

[Warlock]

There's a reason why Morrigan didn't want Warden to reveal it to the elder Warden freed from the jail at Denerim because he could've stopped it as well. The idea of a soul of Old God to be trapped in a little boy would be frightening concept to any man, woman alive especially if that kid also happens to carry illegitimate claim to kingdom. From Inquisition it also seems that the boy would be plagued by nightmares, so it seems to be bad idea since who knows what he'd do after Morrigan taught him everything.

Duncan represents core beliefs of the Wardens, he doesn't care about anything but stopping the Blight, but it doesn't mean he would want to take the risk with dark ritual. Hell, the Orlesian Grey Wardens were pissed if Hero lets Architect go, so yeah this idea wouldn't go well with Duncan. At least, that's what I think

[fauxpas]

I think he'd be against it without a doubt, but I think he could theoretically have been talked into it provided the choice was Allister dying or the performing the ritual.


This means that for whatever reason he or another Warden (including the PC) couldn't be the ones delivering the killing blow.

[Warlock]

Duncan's actually a perfect candidate to deliver final blow since the disease was already killing him and he was planning to go into the Deep Roads to die. I mean, as if without dark ritual he'd probably be willing to just like the other old Warden sent to Ferelden who agrees to it.

[ADEC Inc]

Yeah, if he were alive to even ask about it, he'd simply finish the archdemon himself.

[Redman]

Originally posted by Knight of Revan:

Duncan's actually a perfect candidate to deliver final blow since the disease was already killing him and he was planning to go into the Deep Roads to die. I mean, as if without dark ritual he'd probably be willing to just like the other old Warden sent to Ferelden who agrees to it.

Yeah, if he can land the killing blow, just like Riordan, he would. But even with him, we have 4 wardens in the ENTIRE army. I would think that Duncan would come to understand that someone other than him lopping of the head of the dragon is very likely.

So in such an instance, would he not allow the Warden potentially save himself or Alistair?

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by MrRedman:

Originally posted by Knight of Revan:

Duncan's actually a perfect candidate to deliver final blow since the disease was already killing him and he was planning to go into the Deep Roads to die. I mean, as if without dark ritual he'd probably be willing to just like the other old Warden sent to Ferelden who agrees to it.

Yeah, if he can land the killing blow, just like Riordan, he would. But even with him, we have 4 wardens in the ENTIRE army. I would think that Duncan would come to understand that someone other than him lopping of the head of the dragon is very likely.

So in such an instance, would he not allow the Warden potentially save himself or Alistair?

Alistair yes, but I think the Warden would be seen as disposable.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Originally posted by MrRedman:

Yeah, if he can land the killing blow, just like Riordan, he would. But even with him, we have 4 wardens in the ENTIRE army. I would think that Duncan would come to understand that someone other than him lopping of the head of the dragon is very likely.

So in such an instance, would he not allow the Warden potentially save himself or Alistair?

Alistair yes, but I think the Warden would be seen as disposable.

Kind of sad how MC is treated, but I do agree with you. That's one of the reasons I hate Duncan because of his willing to dispose of you, but not of his favorites.

Yet, I don't know if he actually seen Alistair as his favorite and not as another Warden. I haven't seen proof of that and Alistair worships Duncan because he looks up to him as father figure he never had. Nevertheless, if it's true Duncan viewed Alistair as favorite and your character as cannon fodder then Duncan's really an arsehole.

[fauxpas]

All Wardens are supposed to be disposable thats the point of thier order, and the fact that Duncan has a soft spot for someone he sees as a pseudo adopted son makes him human even if it falls short of his ideals.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

All Wardens are supposed to be disposable thats the point of thier order, and the fact that Duncan has a soft spot for someone he sees as a pseudo adopted son makes him human even if it falls short of his ideals.

Okay, but that's the hypocrisy to ruin life of MC, but treat another Warden like your favorite. Every origin Warden unknowingly sacrificed any other career choice to save Ferelden while Alistair gets this special treatment and he then dares to berate the Warden for holding grudge on Duncan. Yeah, his ideals fall flat when one guy gets good treatment while others are WW1 cannon fodder to be thrown until Darkspawn are overwhelmed. Either way, I think anyone beside me has a right to be mad about it.

Second, I still don't know from where is this info that Duncan actually held Alistair close to himself, is it comics, indication from Alistair's dialogue or novels? I honestly have no clue.

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by Knight of Revan:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

All Wardens are supposed to be disposable thats the point of thier order, and the fact that Duncan has a soft spot for someone he sees as a pseudo adopted son makes him human even if it falls short of his ideals.

Okay, but that's the hypocrisy to ruin life of MC, but treat another Warden like your favorite. Every origin Warden unknowingly sacrificed any other career choice to save Ferelden while Alistair gets this special treatment and he then dares to berate the Warden for holding grudge on Duncan. Yeah, his ideals fall flat when one guy gets good treatment while others are WW1 cannon fodder to be thrown until Darkspawn are overwhelmed. Either way, I think anyone beside me has a right to be mad about it.

Second, I still don't know from where is this info that Duncan actually held Alistair close to himself, is it comics, indication from Alistair's dialogue or novels? I honestly have no clue.

Welcome to the human race, everyone is at least a little hypocritical some of the time.


As for their relationship, Allister talks about thier past in game, Duncan does his best to keep him out of the main battle (the PC serving as backup), and I vaguely remember it being touched on in the novel that stupidly retconed Allister's mother to be a Warden that got cured by a magical STD.

[Redman]

Originally posted by Knight of Revan:

Second, I still don't know from where is this info that Duncan actually held Alistair close to himself, is it comics, indication from Alistair's dialogue or novels? I honestly have no clue.

I believe that Duncan knew Alistair was an illegitimate son of Maric. I believe Alistair mentions this. To me, this is a fair indication that Duncan did make some non-duty choices in terms of recruiting Alistair when he didn't have to. Remember when Alistair said that the Grand Cleric didn't want to let him go and Duncan needed to use the Right of Conscription?

When he knows that for Grey Wardens it is best not to antagonize anyone as they are only recently welcomed into the country, he up and goes to recruit Alistair, even conscripting him displeasing one of the most influential leaders.

By the way, it's funny how he admonishes Alistair for being involved between the mages and the Chantry, in Ostagar.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Originally posted by Knight of Revan:

Okay, but that's the hypocrisy to ruin life of MC, but treat another Warden like your favorite. Every origin Warden unknowingly sacrificed any other career choice to save Ferelden while Alistair gets this special treatment and he then dares to berate the Warden for holding grudge on Duncan. Yeah, his ideals fall flat when one guy gets good treatment while others are WW1 cannon fodder to be thrown until Darkspawn are overwhelmed. Either way, I think anyone beside me has a right to be mad about it.

Second, I still don't know from where is this info that Duncan actually held Alistair close to himself, is it comics, indication from Alistair's dialogue or novels? I honestly have no clue.

Welcome to the human race, everyone is at least a little hypocritical some of the time.


As for their relationship, Allister talks about thier past in game, Duncan does his best to keep him out of the main battle (the PC serving as backup), and I vaguely remember it being touched on in the novel that stupidly retconed Allister's mother to be a Warden that got cured by a magical STD.

"little bit" is a key word. And just hypocrisy shouldn't be treated as something normal, it never is or was okay.

I think Duncan kept him out of battles because of Cailan who didn't want him seen near. Remember, Alistair is illegitimate son of Maric's and also a rude reminder to Cailan that he was conceived out of necessity while Alistair was out of lust/love. Alistair mentions that reasons he was kept out was because of his secret, as for Alistair's talks I see it as him looking up to any father figure he could, he looked up to Arl Eamon and then to Duncan. But maybe I miss something out, either way I don't really know if Duncan felt same way toward Alistair even if latter felt like Duncan was a "father" to him. For all we know, he'd agree with Riordan and also support idea of conscripting Loghain because "we need as many Wardens as possible".

I'll completely agree with you towards Fiona, that retcon was dumb as hell and I feel like one of reasons it exists was because DA devs had an elf boner so they inserted their OCs into the story like Fiona and Briala, but the latter is so unbearable to me. Fiona was fine in Inquisition, but her Warden tale is basically her cheating inevitable death, it's like drinking mercury and surviving by damn miracle which is impossible same as with Darkspawn blood. Briala's story is like "I'm cool elf leader, look at this revolution I am about to begin "insert picture of elven army we never see in-game" and I don't need you, Main Character #3- wait why are you siding with Duke Gaspard/Empress Celene, you should side with me!". The original backstory about servant maid and Goldanna was much better than the latter even if Fiona was alright character in Inquisition, her game introduction doesn't erase the contrived Joining survival.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by MrRedman:

Originally posted by Knight of Revan:

Second, I still don't know from where is this info that Duncan actually held Alistair close to himself, is it comics, indication from Alistair's dialogue or novels? I honestly have no clue.

I believe that Duncan knew Alistair was an illegitimate son of Maric. I believe Alistair mentions this. To me, this is a fair indication that Duncan did make some non-duty choices in terms of recruiting Alistair when he didn't have to. Remember when Alistair said that the Grand Cleric didn't want to let him go and Duncan needed to use the Right of Conscription?

When he knows that for Grey Wardens it is best not to antagonize anyone as they are only recently welcomed into the country, he up and goes to recruit Alistair, even conscripting him displeasing one of the most influential leaders.

By the way, it's funny how he admonishes Alistair for being involved between the mages and the Chantry, in Ostagar.

Yes, he does. Alistair mentions it as reasons he was kept out of fighting as well as out of Ostagar battle, Cailan wanted to keep his half-brother as far away as possible. Yeah, I remember him mentioning it, I can't really comment on that despite wanting to, suffice to say it happened so yeah.

One mad Grand Cleric is like not much of a loss to your already poor reputation, it was another matter if he insulted Mother Augustine who is above all Grand Clerics in Ferelden. Well, Duncan wasn't wrong here, Alistair did pester mages at whim of a cleric because she wanted to flex over the Circle. Problem was that he was Warden now and he shouldn't get involved in Chantry affairs anymore, that was the case why Duncan berated him over it.

[fauxpas]

Whether or not it's "ok" anyone who claims to be completely consistent and free of hypocrisy is a liar (or someone who is completely lacking any life experience). So whether you like it or not it some degree of hypocrisy is a normal part of the human condition and pretending otherwise is pointless.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

Whether or not it's "ok" anyone who claims to be completely consistent and free of hypocrisy is a liar (or someone who is completely lacking any life experience). So whether you like it or not it some degree of hypocrisy is a normal part of the human condition and pretending otherwise is pointless.

True, but that doesn't excuse Duncan's lying and hypocrisy which is used in its purest form. From withholding all consequences of being a Warden to been a terrible motivator, morale supportive, just the plain "Do as I say and don't expect any rewards". Ok, pretending otherwise is pointless, that's alright, just don't expect me to follow Duncan's will to sacrifice myself so young for Thedas where half its people will never care about you again.