Dalish Mage

[Gorwe]

...which School do you think would fit them best? Imo, a typical Spirit Healer(with added benefit of element of Earth, ofc), but the more I think the more I see Primal or Spirit fitting. The only thing I see as not fitting at all is Entropy.

[Stormsong]

Primal & Spirit for actual schools. I feel like the elves of old would have also had an affinity for Creation (entropy too by way of being "absolute mages") but the quickened, vengeful elves might have lost these more delicate talents, or just go straight to Blood Magic when they want similar results. Keepers might still regularly practice Creation magic, and designated healers. Doesn't seem like something every modern elf with magic talent would do though.

Arcane as well, not a school per se, but still something they'd likely know. Just pure magic as a force itself.

Specializations: Blood Magic, Arcane Warrior, and if you have the DLC, Keeper.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Stormsong the Fallen:

Primal & Spirit for actual schools. I feel like the elves of old would have also had an affinity for Creation (entropy too by way of being "absolute mages") but the quickened, vengeful elves might have lost these more delicate talents, or just go straight to Blood Magic when they want similar results. Keepers might still regularly practice Creation magic, and designated healers. Doesn't seem like something every modern elf with magic talent would do though.

Arcane as well, not a school per se, but still something they'd likely know. Just pure magic as a force itself.

Specializations: Blood Magic, Arcane Warrior, and if you have the DLC, Keeper.

Neh, I can't be a Keeper until the Awakening, fml. If only there was a mod that allowed those in the base game.

And yes, I mistook them for the Wood Elves(even if I shouldn't really), not the Ancient Elves they really are. To use The Elder Scrolls term, they're more of an Ayleid remnant than anything.

I just don't see them using Walking Bomb and such-that thing's too necromantic for them imo. But, then again, I don't understand why the Walking Bomb's in the Spirit in the first place(and not in the Entropy where it should be, come on it's obvious).

Why not the Spirit Healer though? I think that I understand and that the Dalish Mages would be more of Druids and Shamans than of Sorcerers and the like that the Circle Mages are.

[Stormsong]

Well, Spirit Healing seems to have some conditions that need be met for its use. Specifically, exceptional ties to the Fade and its denizens. That alone, given how fragile spirits are, significantly limits compatibility.

If "good spirits" do in fact closely follow mortal virtues or positive emotions, then the ones needed might be ones like Wisdom, or Faith (provided that Faith is more than just a willful hallucination by Cassandra in her Tranquil state). The Dalish are prideful which has been shown to corrupt Wisdom.

The only people I've seen do anything like Spirit Healing were Wynne, Anders, and Solas. Wynne definitely has a special relationship with the Spirit (and it is killing the Spirit). Anders corrupted Justice, and Solas is...well, an exception all unto himself. Spirit Healing seems to require that

A) One must have a COMPLETELY sound mind AND soul. And then also be a mage. Mages don't seem to be the most level headed bunch to begin with.

OR

B) One must more or less live in the Fade.

Wynne had A, on top of the Spirit

Anders had Justice, who was B

And Solas leans HEAVILY toward B.

In fact after lining it up like that it seems even more dependent on B than A, further limiting things. Condition A just might lure the right kind of spirit to work with you.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Stormsong the Fallen:

Well, Spirit Healing seems to have some conditions that need be met for its use. Specifically, exceptional ties to the Fade and its denizens. That alone, given how fragile spirits are, significantly limits compatibility.

If "good spirits" do in fact closely follow mortal virtues or positive emotions, then the ones needed might be ones like Wisdom, or Faith (provided that Faith is more than just a willful hallucination by Cassandra in her Tranquil state). The Dalish are prideful which has been shown to corrupt Wisdom.

The only people I've seen do anything like Spirit Healing were Wynne, Anders, and Solas. Wynne definitely has a special relationship with the Spirit (and it is killing the Spirit). Anders corrupted Justice, and Solas is...well, an exception all unto himself. Spirit Healing seems to require that

A) One must have a COMPLETELY sound mind AND soul. And then also be a mage. Mages don't seem to be the most level headed bunch to begin with.

OR

B) One must more or less live in the Fade.

Wynne had A, on top of the Spirit

Anders had Justice, who was B

And Solas leans HEAVILY toward B.

In fact after lining it up like that it seems even more dependent on B than A, further limiting things. Condition A just might lure the right kind of spirit to work with you.

Yes, the connection to the Fade is exactly what I had in mind as a chief problem to the Dalish Spirit Healer. They can command nature(plants, animals etc) even weather...but the Fade? Oh, well, perhaps if they stumbled upon the Ancient Elven texts or something. Otherwise, no.

Thank you for a nice information. I'll have to think about this. I originally wanted to create a Dalish...shaman(? -> Heal line + Earth line + Nature / Grease line)...I suppose I could do it without the specialization. If I could, I'd take the Keeper in a heartbeat.

[Crom]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

...which School do you think would fit them best? Imo, a typical Spirit Healer(with added benefit of element of Earth, ofc), but the more I think the more I see Primal or Spirit fitting. The only thing I see as not fitting at all is Entropy.

The is NO such thing as best thing. Not even typical. But...

Dont play Spiritual Healer, its boring and you do not need any healing in this game.
Entropy is one of the most powerfull tree in game.

But...

For good sake, choose tree which you like to play, which looks inetresting to you. Its RPG. Jees... players...

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by zangori:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

...which School do you think would fit them best? Imo, a typical Spirit Healer(with added benefit of element of Earth, ofc), but the more I think the more I see Primal or Spirit fitting. The only thing I see as not fitting at all is Entropy.

The is NO such thing as best thing. Not even typical. But...

Dont play Spiritual Healer, its boring and you do not need any healing in this game.
Entropy is one of the most powerfull tree in game.

But...

For good sake, choose tree which you like to play, which looks inetresting to you. Its RPG. Jees... players...

Really? You don't see the difference between the Dalish and the Circle Mages? I just wanted to see whether there are other points of view besides my own(Earth Heal Nature).

[Crom]

You play Gray Warden. Thats what this game is about.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by zangori:

You play Gray Warden. Thats what this game is about.

Yeah, you're right. As much as I might want otherwise...

[K00lex]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Originally posted by zangori:

You play Gray Warden. Thats what this game is about.

Yeah, you're right. As much as I might want otherwise...

No, don't be. Grey Wardens are composed of various backgrounds and talents. Being a Grey Warden is a job, career, or responsiblity, but not his/her skills, resume, or life. I mean, the game is called Origins for a reason.
Yes, the game is an RPG, that means it's up to the player to roleplay however or whatever level of immersion he wants. One can forget the origins and start a new life as a Warden (use a respec mod), or one can remain true to himself and pursue his goals and talents, while eradicating darkspawn.

Please do not get discouraged, OP. You have brought excellent discussions into this forum.

As for the original question, I'd go with Arcane Warrior and/or Shapeshifter specializations and really any line of spells from any school, since you can justify by assuming that the Keeper of your particular clan focused on whatever was passed down or survived all the travelings. She wouldn't necessarily have to be confined to strict 4 Schools under the Circle.

[Zadok]

Originally posted by K00lex:

As for the original question, I'd go with Arcane Warrior (...)

The Arcane Warrior. Now that's definitely an elven thing as far as lore goes, yet it is a rather odd specialization to begin with. The massive armor mage. What would tradition for these guys look like? I could see it as a sacrifice, to place oneself between any harm and the clan. Perhaps also a reaction to ancient battles with heavily armored foes? An ethically questionable thing developed and used in a crisis? In any case I find the Massive Armor Mage needs some kind of explanation, perhaps self-restrictions, to make any sense as a roleplayed character.

Also he's extremely overpowered. Back in my first D&D group my mage eventually found the spell to wear armor. And the Sword with D6-1+Death. That's what beginners end up with usually: a generic "can do everything" cardboard character. Elves can easily fall into this trap. The Arcane Warrior at first sight seems to pretty much be that trap.

My own character is an Arcane Warrior and an elf (Origin: Mage). Now he's a black hearted sucker for power. Not entirely. More like your average politician. He would feel bad when selling his grandma. He'd do it though. Of course he simply believes pretty much everybody naive, shares his mind with nobody, plays along but always goes alone. No doubt he hates the idea of a Templar of all people being the heir to the throne. So much so: He'd rather make deals with a known foe who is a politician than empower a dangerous fool and mortal enemy.

He is not a Bloodmage but he already peaked into it, considered it but didn't find a use for it yet. Fools after all, played by powers they believe under their control. Also dangerous, given how mages are under permanent scrutiny. That's also how he uses the Arcane Warrior: without any regards for ethics or tradition, a raw source of power, a tool to work with. There is no doubt in my mind that this behaviour is breaking with ancient tradition. A weak tradition anyway, one that failed and finds its last defenders in those weak-minded, foolish Dalish he despises as a living reminder of his heritage's greatest sin: weakness.

Straight out using that power without swearing any oath, without preparing body and mind and binding oneself to a purpose, egoistic and without a clan, neglecting the sacred rites: That's certainly no better than bloodmagic in its creator's eyes. Perhaps it even is bloodmagic, considering how it uses magic to not just strengthen the body but replace bodily strength, untying the balance of body and soul in favor of all powerful magic. The guy you get it from isn't exactly a holy man either, more of an eternally cursed soul who sells secrets he's likely sworn to protect to escape his torment. It is forbidden power.

So at this point, for immersion, my character definitely needs to fail tragically to make any sense. Even in a solo the Arcane Warrior is overpowered and broken. Unholy. Somehow it would be fitting if that school was the very beginning of the elves' downfall.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by K00lex:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Yeah, you're right. As much as I might want otherwise...

No, don't be. Grey Wardens are composed of various backgrounds and talents. Being a Grey Warden is a job, career, or responsiblity, but not his/her skills, resume, or life. I mean, the game is called Origins for a reason.
Yes, the game is an RPG, that means it's up to the player to roleplay however or whatever level of immersion he wants. One can forget the origins and start a new life as a Warden (use a respec mod), or one can remain true to himself and pursue his goals and talents, while eradicating darkspawn.

Please do not get discouraged, OP. You have brought excellent discussions into this forum.

As for the original question, I'd go with Arcane Warrior and/or Shapeshifter specializations and really any line of spells from any school, since you can justify by assuming that the Keeper of your particular clan focused on whatever was passed down or survived all the travelings. She wouldn't necessarily have to be confined to strict 4 Schools under the Circle.

Thank you. Now, if Bioware itself applied such in depth(depth...lol in today's fast food world) thinking...perhaps we would still have Entropy, Creation etc in Inquisition and not that typical FCL + Heal nonsense the Magic devolved to. For shame.

But he's mostly right. You are a Gray Warden of an Origin x. That Origin is, quite sadly, mostly irrelevant(with the possible and likely exceptions of Dwarfen Origins). Would I prefer something more akin to SWTOR where you play through 6 different stories? YES. Perhaps even add in the "Gray Warden" origin or allow the GW as a CHOICE. Be as it may. Ultimately, I see DAO's Origin system as nothing more as a prototype for SWTOR. I...am not clear how to feel about that tbh.

[Zadok]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

You are a Gray Warden of an Origin x. That Origin is, quite sadly, mostly irrelevant.

To create six paths is a lot of effort. To tie them aptly into a whole epic? It's just too much. The origins can be nice if you fancy roleplay but from a game design point of view I find it a poor decision. The beginning is a rather important, perhaps the most important, part of an RPG. To split ressources right there... I don't know. I like the idea but I don't consider it practical at all. In drama it leads to repetition (the drama of the human noble origin is mirrored in the following chapter) and in immersion it feels awkward, because it isn't woven into the main plot all that much (which would need even more ressources spent on something you only get to see 1/6th of).

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Zadok:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

You are a Gray Warden of an Origin x. That Origin is, quite sadly, mostly irrelevant.

To create six paths is a lot of effort. To tie them aptly into a whole epic? It's just too much. The origins can be nice if you fancy roleplay but from a game design point of view I find it a poor decision. The beginning is a rather important, perhaps the most important, part of an RPG. To split ressources right there... I don't know. I like the idea but I don't consider it practical at all. In drama it leads to repetition (the drama of the human noble origin is mirrored in the following chapter) and in immersion it feels awkward, because it isn't woven into the main plot all that much (which would need even more ressources spent on something you only get to see 1/6th of).

Yes, I know. That's one of the main reasons why SWTOR failed. The 8 different stories + 2 Factional stories + other MMO things...it's just too much to bear.

Maybe I don't see the middle point(the 4 different venues for support) as interesting because...it is dull(imo). The Dwarf and the Dalish parts are ok...everything else is farsical. I'd love to choose Kolgrim and say "Eat them all" to his pet :D . Boring knights taking up ~20% of gameplay time. They aren't even half as interesting as Teyrn Loghain is(really just compare TEAGAN with Loghain, hell even "awesome" Arl Eamon pales in comparison).

[K00lex]

Originally posted by Zadok:

I find the Massive Armor Mage needs some kind of explanation, perhaps self-restrictions, to make any sense as a roleplayed character.

Elven AW doesn't necessarily have to wear massive or even metallic armor. My AW Warden doesn't, to minimize fatigue.

The Dalish AW would use leather armor or cloth robe (maybe occasional studded or partial chain), as the wandering clans no longer have the needed infrastructure to process iron and manufacture full metal armor sets.
I think of Combat Magic as an alteration of the mage's body. Almost a possession by the spirit/demon. Similar to Spirit Healer Specialization, where one can roleplay that the mage has accepted the help or made a deal with a benevolent spirit to allow it to experience mortal life and reality in exchange for access to rare fade power. Opposite of maleficars who interacted with demons.

On a side note, Arcane Warriors remind me of Physical Adepts in Shadowrun. Too bad that hand-to-hand or martial arts combat isn't simulated in DA.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by K00lex:

Originally posted by Zadok:

I find the Massive Armor Mage needs some kind of explanation, perhaps self-restrictions, to make any sense as a roleplayed character.

Elven AW doesn't necessarily have to wear massive or even metallic armor. My AW Warden doesn't, to minimize fatigue.

The Dalish AW would use leather armor or cloth robe (maybe occasional studded or partial chain), as the wandering clans no longer have the needed infrastructure to process iron and manufacture full metal armor sets.
I think of Combat Magic as an alteration of the mage's body. Almost a possession by the spirit/demon. Similar to Spirit Healer Specialization, where one can roleplay that the mage has accepted the help or made a deal with a benevolent spirit to allow it to experience mortal life and reality in exchange for access to rare fade power. Opposite of maleficars who interacted with demons.

On a side note, Arcane Warriors remind me of Physical Adepts in Shadowrun. Too bad that hand-to-hand or martial arts combat isn't simulated in DA.

Yeah, the Dalish Leather sets are just so good. Look good too in T3 and T4 variants(the green ones -> it's just so...Asrai like, especially T4).