*massive spoilers* is Morrigan the worst character ever?

[edmek55555]

I know everyone loves her, and I agree that her story is great, but a lot of people seem to think she is a grey area character when in reality she is pretty evil. She builds a relationship with the warden literally just to have a kid and then kidnap the unborn child. A matter of fact, it doesn’t even have to be the warden. She can have a relationship with the warden and she will volunteer to get impregnated by literally anyone. Even with all the dlc and inquisition, she only lets the warden see his child one time and only comes out of hiding when she needs something. I don’t see where the grey area is

[Luck-E-lynx]

Soloontherocks původně napsal:

I think first you have to define "worst". Evil? Bad? Amoral? Annoying? Poorly written? Under-used? Overrated? What specifically are you asking here?

Oghren is the worst however you define it. Threatens to harm Dog for taking his pants. (Which he was still wearing) also threatens to eat Schmooples.

Nothing anyone does in the game is worse than threatening Dog, or Schmooples.

Zevran or Nathaniel Howe threatens me... I am fine with, but puppy. No sir, You will leave now!

[Cyanmurder]

Me and Morgan is like peas and carrots, two bullets in a mag, two midgets in fat man rib cage, two love birds in DA-Inquisition too. Theres nothing evil about her or her blanketed aura, maybe her mum is evil. Hell of a fight between me and her mum (true form)

[pie gie]

I completed the romance with her and found it to be worth it. Some things that stood out to me, take it for what you will.

Regarding the Dark Ritual, she mentions that there could be a 100 Grey wardens, but she wants your permission to go through with it. Which could be evidence that she puts the relationship ahead of her ambition/duty. I dd not complete the ritual.

Her Romance is great, however there is dialogue that she wants to hop into bed with Sten, whilst in a relationship with the Warden. It's not clear whether the approval level changes this.
It wouldn't be a problem if she liked to share you, which she doesn't. I never got the dialogue myself, but it rubbed me the wrong way when I looked it up on later.

My jaw dropped when at the end my Warden went through the Mirror with her, it was an ending too good to be true. I originally thought it ran against her character, but I didn't care, I was satisfied with the happy ending.

She is incredibly selfish, I will give you that.

[ashbery76]

Worst? Not the correct term as she is great.

[Advent]

I don't know about her being able to do it with anyone since when I used every dialogue options, I was left with just agreeing or not agreeing to it. Also, Morrigan said that romance between us makes things even better, she also tells you to forget about ritual part and just enjoy the night. And when you talk with her in Battle for Denerim, she will tell you she loves you. About being evil, as someone said, child is not going to have archdemon reborn but The Old God. Untainted one. She said that there are some things in this world worth preserving (she means you as well as it will save your life). She had some power hungry moments like when I declined offer to sacrifice elven slaves to increase my power or decided to destroy Anvil of Void instead of making Golems. She is neither black or white, she is quite interesting, I like the way she responds to people. Overall as for personality and morality, I am all over Leliana.

[boiling pie]

When the player refuses the offer of the Tevinter mage in the Denerrim alienage to sacrifice the captured elves, Morrigan approval drops. This even though the father of the city-elven warden is among the captured. She is evil.
The only reason I kept her after this is because I assumed it must have been an oversight by the devs.

[LukanGamer]

boiling pie původně napsal:

When the player refuses the offer of the Tevinter mage in the Denerrim alienage to sacrifice the captured elves, Morrigan approval drops. This even though the father of the city-elven warden is among the captured. She is evil.
The only reason I kept her after this is because I assumed it must have been an oversight by the devs.

pretty certain you can persuade her in that moment. And that not pure evil, would say more like chaotic neutral, as she not doing it because she wants to see some sort of major suffering. That is also near end game.... so idk "The only reason I kept her after this is because I assumed it must have been an oversight by the devs." if this unintentionally misleading or what.

[boiling pie]

"Hey let's sacrifice your father in some blood ritual that makes us more powerful!"
if that is "chaotic neutral", then chaotic neutral is evil.
I could not believe the devs would go so far.

[LukanGamer]

boiling pie původně napsal:

"Hey let's sacrifice your father in some blood ritual that makes us more powerful!"
if that is "chaotic neutral", then chaotic neutral is evil.

I mean as always it debatable.
O the father part is what bothering you :D, but ya I mean don't risk dieing + grow in power which is important both in order to do important stuff and to her personally + and it not to directly cause the pain/suffering as reason I think it is.
Now if she said I want to watch you grovel in pain as we watch your father bleed to death and I don't care what you say, or you had a lovely moment with your dad and said you didn't/couldn't ever do such a thing and she went through with it laughing then that would be.

[no1schmo]

LukanGamer původně napsal:

boiling pie původně napsal:

"Hey let's sacrifice your father in some blood ritual that makes us more powerful!"
if that is "chaotic neutral", then chaotic neutral is evil.

I mean as always it debatable.
O the father part is what bothering you :D, but ya I mean don't risk dieing + grow in power which is important both in order to do important stuff and to her personally + and it not to directly cause the pain/suffering as reason I think it is.
Now if she said I want to watch you grovel in pain as we watch your father bleed to death and I don't care what you say, or you had a lovely moment with your dad and said you didn't/couldn't ever do such a thing and she went through with it laughing then that would be.

Under the classic D&D morality system, that is not neutral. A chaotic neutral character is unpredictable and basically random, doing things for no particular reason, saving people one day and setting them on fire the next. A true neutral character is a druid, back in the AD&D days, someone concerned with maintaining balance with little concern for virtue. A lawful neutral is an administrator, carrying out laws and orders without particular concern of whether or not they are good or bad. Calling for the sacrifice of innocents to increase one's own power would definitely fall on the evil side. It's more neutral evil than chaotic evil, I suppose, as it's neither deliberately to cause problems nor to enforce a totalitarian rule, so in that sense, you might call it neutral, but it's definitely evil. You could only really maintain otherwise if Morrigan either did or said some really good things elsewhere, or if she had a "higher" reason to approve the sacrifice and made a case as to why it was necessary at this time, beyond "Sure, kill people for power, sounds good!"

[LukanGamer]

no1schmo původně napsal:

LukanGamer původně napsal:

I mean as always it debatable.
O the father part is what bothering you :D, but ya I mean don't risk dieing + grow in power which is important both in order to do important stuff and to her personally + and it not to directly cause the pain/suffering as reason I think it is.
Now if she said I want to watch you grovel in pain as we watch your father bleed to death and I don't care what you say, or you had a lovely moment with your dad and said you didn't/couldn't ever do such a thing and she went through with it laughing then that would be.

Under the classic D&D morality system, that is not neutral. A chaotic neutral character is unpredictable and basically random, doing things for no particular reason, saving people one day and setting them on fire the next. A true neutral character is a druid, back in the AD&D days, someone concerned with maintaining balance with little concern for virtue. A lawful neutral is an administrator, carrying out laws and orders without particular concern of whether or not they are good or bad. Calling for the sacrifice of innocents to increase one's own power would definitely fall on the evil side. It's more neutral evil than chaotic evil, I suppose, as it's neither deliberately to cause problems nor to enforce a totalitarian rule, so in that sense, you might call it neutral, but it's definitely evil. You could only really maintain otherwise if Morrigan either did or said some really good things elsewhere, or if she had a "higher" reason to approve the sacrifice and made a case as to why it was necessary at this time, beyond "Sure, kill people for power, sounds good!"

Ya suppose somewhat, again it is always debatable, but ya then she Neutral since there was reason I/she pointed out.

A chaotic neutral character *may be* unpredictable, but his behavior is *Not* totally random. Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents *True Freedom* from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal. is what I was going off of, but ya normal neutral makes more sense, I wasn't giving it a offical calling was just saying she was being closer to it then evil.

[no1schmo]

No, neutral evil is closer. Killing innocents for your own sake is pretty far over towards evil. She's only "neutral" because it's not explicitly for a lawful or chaotic purpose. I'm also pretty sure the official D&D description of Chaotic Neutral is pretty much crazy and unpredictable, and outright says it's probably the hardest alignment to roleplay as, since you have to deliberately rebuff both all notions of order and goodness, and yet not be consistently evil either.

[LukanGamer]

no1schmo původně napsal:

No, neutral evil is closer. Killing innocents for your own sake is pretty far over towards evil. She's only "neutral" because it's not explicitly for a lawful or chaotic purpose. I'm also pretty sure the official D&D description of Chaotic Neutral is pretty much crazy and unpredictable, and outright says it's probably the hardest alignment to roleplay as, since you have to deliberately rebuff both all notions of order and goodness, and yet not be consistently evil either.

again that your opinion, I mean you are saving the world (or least Fereldan so more power for good cause, along with not risking dieing to the mage).
I just copied and pasted 1 the definitions of Chaotic Neutral (why it does not include a 2nd him/her added it to 1 area forgot other). But ya they tend to be random, again though it always falls on opinions and even video games with its mechanic often have long debates on it.

[no1schmo]

LukanGamer původně napsal:

no1schmo původně napsal:

No, neutral evil is closer. Killing innocents for your own sake is pretty far over towards evil. She's only "neutral" because it's not explicitly for a lawful or chaotic purpose. I'm also pretty sure the official D&D description of Chaotic Neutral is pretty much crazy and unpredictable, and outright says it's probably the hardest alignment to roleplay as, since you have to deliberately rebuff both all notions of order and goodness, and yet not be consistently evil either.

again that your opinion, I mean you are saving the world (or least Fereldan so more power for good cause, along with not risking dieing to the mage).
I just copied and pasted 1 the definitions of Chaotic Neutral (why it does not include a 2nd him/her added it to 1 area forgot other). But ya they tend to be random, again though it always falls on opinions and even video games with its mechanic often have long debates on it.

Unless you a complete moral relativist, it's not "my opinion", it's the facts. And if you ARE a complete moral relativist, then you don't believe in the very concept of evil to begin with, you just believe different people do different things and...that's it, there's no judgment to be made, except perhaps whether or not the means chosen actually achieve the ends desired, aka, utilitarianism. So there's no point in "discussing" anything, because you'd have to believe that whether or not to murder babies for kicks is no more impactful than asking whether you should watch movie X or movie Y. At the end of the day, regardless of your personal opinion, it's pretty clear that that overwhelming majority of people think killing defenseless innocents to increase your own power is evil, so by the rubric of society AND the rubric of D&D, she's not great. She's not 100% evil all the time, but she absolutely does some evil stuff.

[LukanGamer]

no1schmo původně napsal:

Unless you a complete moral relativist, it's not "my opinion", it's the facts. And if you ARE a complete moral relativist, then you don't believe in the very concept of evil to begin with, you just believe different people do different things and...that's it, there's no judgment to be made, except perhaps whether or not the means chosen actually achieve the ends desired, aka, utilitarianism. So there's no point in "discussing" anything, because you'd have to believe that whether or not to murder babies for kicks is no more impactful than asking whether you should watch movie X or movie Y. At the end of the day, regardless of your personal opinion, it's pretty clear that that overwhelming majority of people think killing defenseless innocents to increase your own power is evil, so by the rubric of society AND the rubric of D&D, she's not great. She's not 100% evil all the time, but she absolutely does some evil stuff.

lol had a massive thing typed up on your random reply, but it so far off topic and odd I see no point.

Thanks though for finally semi agreeing and seeing she not some major Evil all i was saying, everyone more so in dire situations, circumstances, and special settings can do a little bad/"evil" things but that just makes them Neutral/not pure good (unless they doing it for kicks like that random exaggerated go to babies comment obvi. )

But ya I suggest playing more the video games that have the mechanic and then having giant debates on their choices, this game doesn't and is just getting to off topic.
(also ignoring you from here on, no point talking to someone that's random and just wants to listen to themselves talk etc though this 1st time in all my years I think I blocked someone *on steam* lol maybe I blocked one other before like fake scammer not sure tend to just ignore them not block).