*massive spoilers* is Morrigan the worst character ever?

[edmek55555]

I know everyone loves her, and I agree that her story is great, but a lot of people seem to think she is a grey area character when in reality she is pretty evil. She builds a relationship with the warden literally just to have a kid and then kidnap the unborn child. A matter of fact, it doesn’t even have to be the warden. She can have a relationship with the warden and she will volunteer to get impregnated by literally anyone. Even with all the dlc and inquisition, she only lets the warden see his child one time and only comes out of hiding when she needs something. I don’t see where the grey area is

[AbedsBrother]

The grey area is that she is portrayed differently based upon how you interact with her. If you take the romance path seriously with her, she gets confused & hesitant, then caves. She is very regretful that she has to leave - and in the Witch Hunt DLC, you find her again and can leave with her to be a family together. Now you might suspect that ending is too good to be true, but it isn't - because Morrigan plays an important role in Dragon Age Inquisition and when she shows up you can ask her about her relationship with the Warden (if that is the path you chose in DAO).

[edmek55555]

Originally posted by AbedsBrother:

The grey area is that she is portrayed differently based upon how you interact with her. If you take the romance path seriously with her, she gets confused & hesitant, then caves. She is very regretful that she has to leave - and in the Witch Hunt DLC, you find her again and can leave with her to be a family together. Now you might suspect that ending is too good to be true, but it isn't - because Morrigan plays an important role in Dragon Age Inquisition and when she shows up you can ask her about her relationship with the Warden (if that is the path you chose in DAO).

I played the game and all the dlc a while back and I don’t remember the option to leave with her in the dlc. Hmmmm. I may have to replay that just to see. I know when everything was current everyone was in an uproar that there was no “good” ending to that relationship

[ADEC Inc]

You have to keep her romance active, which requires NOT talking to her during the battle of Denerim. May also be important to keep her ring in inventory.

[AbedsBrother]

Originally posted by edmek55555:

Originally posted by AbedsBrother:

The grey area is that she is portrayed differently based upon how you interact with her. If you take the romance path seriously with her, she gets confused & hesitant, then caves. She is very regretful that she has to leave - and in the Witch Hunt DLC, you find her again and can leave with her to be a family together. Now you might suspect that ending is too good to be true, but it isn't - because Morrigan plays an important role in Dragon Age Inquisition and when she shows up you can ask her about her relationship with the Warden (if that is the path you chose in DAO).

I played the game and all the dlc a while back and I don’t remember the option to leave with her in the dlc. Hmmmm. I may have to replay that just to see. I know when everything was current everyone was in an uproar that there was no “good” ending to that relationship

Here's the scene. This is with accepting & performing the "dark ritual," though apparently this is also possible even if the dark ritual was refused.
https://youtu.be/tRDEHUd9HUY

[biogoo]

What is so evil about capturing the soul(?) of a demon in an unborn child? Wait a minute...

[no1schmo]

I find it funny that this is your example. If you had cited her routine dislike and contempt for people who are weak or injured, I'd understand more. Because even if you romance her, all that really shows is that she, selfishly, doesn't like the conflict she has to endure; she is still borderline evil to everyone else, precisely when it doesn't really matter, she just wants to be hostile and cruel. But what she does with the kid is, well, part of a greater plan--I'm not really big on sacrifice but there are cases where you have to sacrifice someone or some group to save the greater whole.

[LukanGamer]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

(and to otherss)
she not evil at all, she not even a yandere maybe a little tsundere with healthy nice touch of mature woman that has to often seen the world how it is and raised by a ♥♥♥♥ both making her tired of things easy and a llitte bit of a beach but far from evil.

Do all her quests (including dlc as above has said that helps) properly and good and bring her aound with companions on all your adventurers and you should notice all that.

Leliana is actually slightly evil (though does her best not to be and is a terrific character)

[no1schmo]

I never said she was evil. I generally dislike something as blanket as "evil", it's not very descriptive. But no matter what you do, she is still contemptuous, and seems to see no particular value in the lives and happiness of other people. You can make her reveal her own emotions, to show that she does actually have feelings, but she doesn't stop looking down on others, she just tolerates them slightly more. And you're right that it isn't really her fault, she was raised in a bizarre way by an amoral...thing. But that doesn't change the fact that she's not that great; either she hates everyone, or she dislikes everyone except you. I'm not even mad about that; I've got 500 hours in Baldur's Gate, I've played very, very evil characters with very evil friends, all far worse than Morrigan. But still, she's not great. Arguably you can start her on a path to redemption, but that's about all.

[AbedsBrother]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

I never said she was evil. I generally dislike something as blanket as "evil", it's not very descriptive. But no matter what you do, she is still contemptuous, and seems to see no particular value in the lives and happiness of other people. You can make her reveal her own emotions, to show that she does actually have feelings, but she doesn't stop looking down on others, she just tolerates them slightly more. And you're right that it isn't really her fault, she was raised in a bizarre way by an amoral...thing. But that doesn't change the fact that she's not that great; either she hates everyone, or she dislikes everyone except you. I'm not even mad about that; I've got 500 hours in Baldur's Gate, I've played very, very evil characters with very evil friends, all far worse than Morrigan. But still, she's not great. Arguably you can start her on a path to redemption, but that's about all.

That's a good description of her character in Origins. Romancing her & having the kid does change her in Dragon Age Inquition - she is a very good mom and her personal priorities have clearly been adjusted. Still edgy and contemptuous, but the edges are dulled a bit. I was glad BioWare kept her fairly consistent. That's just the way she is.

[LukanGamer]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

well you did say "borderline evil and Cruel" and I was just pointing out that she far from evil not even borderline in other words. Cruel she can be to *some* though barely really (like 50%+ people you run into are way worse then her :D inclduing to some extent companions and they have no or least much much less excuse or reason besides evil/greed/selfishness/etc...).

And she has plenty of nice things to say about some people so long they not against her beliefs even then she can see reason to things (like mage tower) and a lot of the stuff that is "bad" is borderline joking then extreme cruelty in any way; she even warms up to the dog unlike modern RL ones who kick them and throw them around for 0 reason let alone if they did what this one does :D .
Also who cares about the Baldurs gate thing that random info, I I think I recall playing a Barney in barney in friends when I was like 5 on og pc or nintendo or something and roleplayed as something not quite so loving and nice.

Again imo you should replay the game bring her to every quest with every companion do all her stuff as you clearly missed a ton of her lines behind the glasses of seeing her 1st impression / book cover.

Although to ease some your easrly frustration with her I suggest slap Morrigan mod if want, if you have not already used it.

[no1schmo]

No, my preferred playstyle is to role with 3 mages, and I have romanced Morrigan. I stand by my observations. You can soften her, slightly, but there's still alot of nastiness to her, where she has no compassion for the people being slaughtered by Dark Spawn. Even in the Circle, I recall her kind of shrugging with an attitude like "Well, these mages permitted themselves to be controlled by the Templars, so it's fine if they wind up dying" which is awfully hypocritical in light of the fact that she equally "allowed" a witch to control her (aka, it wasn't really a choice, it was obey or die). I brought up Balder's Gate for the exact reason I gave--to make clear that I do not have a specific problem with Morrigan just because she isn't a lovey-dovey touchy-feely happy character. But she has a strong "survival of the fittest" mentality, which she throws in the garbage as soon as it's HER butt on the line, then it's "Help me!" Basically, she's a sociopath. And contrary to common belief, sociopaths are not inherently evil villains, no, but it's very, very easy to BECOME one when you just don't feel empathy or compassion for the suffering of others. Morrigan is clearly walking that line depending on her mood that day.

[Luck-E-lynx]

Her backstory basically includes her being raised in isolation in a hostile environment by an abusive mother. Being taught that people will hate and fear her. Some will even try to kill her simply for existing (templar, chantry) which is not untrue.

Do you think she might develop some antisocial tendencies? Probably...Yet still she travels off with 2 strange wardens she just met in the wilderness (one a known idiot) and the adorable dog to help them save everyone from being killed by "evil" monsters.

Is she a bad person because she mocks people for foolish decisions or pointless traditions along the way? For not shedding fake tears for those that likely would not have cared for her in the slightest if the situations were reversed.

You can cherry pick parts that make her seem a horrible person, or a hero. As you can for pretty much all the characters.

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by Luck-E-lynx:

Her backstory basically includes her being raised in isolation in a hostile environment by an abusive mother. Being taught that people will hate and fear her. Some will even try to kill her simply for existing (templar, chantry) which is not untrue.

Do you think she might develop some antisocial tendencies? Probably...Yet still she travels off with 2 strange wardens she just met in the wilderness (one a known idiot) and the adorable dog to help them save everyone from being killed by "evil" monsters.

Is she a bad person because she mocks people for foolish decisions or pointless traditions along the way? For not shedding fake tears for those that likely would not have cared for her in the slightest if the situations were reversed.

You can cherry pick parts that make her seem a horrible person, or a hero. As you can for pretty much all the characters.

She travels off because she was ordered to, to carry out the plan Flemeth devised, and keeping in mind Flemeth's OTHER plan involving Morrigan, basically the whole thing was a way for Flemeth to gain god-like powers or some nonsense. I don't recall discussing "foolish decisions" and "pointless traditions", so I am not sure why you brought that up, or why you did NOT bring up how she mocks and derides innocent victims for no reason. Even when it comes to the Templars, she doesn't care about the ethical implications of Templar control vs the risk of abominations and blood mages running rampant, she's just mad about anything that limits her personally. Completely self-centered. And I'm not cherry-picking, I'm looking at the totality here; she is occasionally not terrible, especially if you soften her with a romance, but on the whole, she is. Which isn't strange; even history's most terrible people have done good things here and there. As I already acknowledged, yes, her mother is mostly to blame for her behavior, but that doesn't change the fact that it is her behavior--understanding why someone is a jerk doesn't make them not a jerk.

[Solutad]

I think first you have to define "worst". Evil? Bad? Amoral? Annoying? Poorly written? Under-used? Overrated? What specifically are you asking here?

[Xerica]

Originally posted by biogoo:

What is so evil about capturing the soul(?) of a demon in an unborn child? Wait a minute...

its not the soul of a demon. It is the soul of an Old God...and old Elven God. The more i read about the Chantry and the Maker. The more i think that the maker was kind of a ♥♥♥♥ to other gods.