Extremly overrated

[Kentathor]

I love this game and have played it for several hundred hours since it came out. It was really good when it came out but now it can't hold it's own against the newer ones. It is just so lacking.

Yet I still see people saying how this is the best one or how good everything is in this. It was great when it came out and held up well for many years. Now it's not. It's fun to play sure but the mechanics in the game are barebones compared to most other similar games and newer total wars.

It must be nostalgia speaking, looking at all the details only a few things can be argued as better in this but these are just preferences. I'm mainly thinking about the music which is great still.

I don't want to ♥♥♥♥ on this game, I love it still. I just wonder why people still hold this game so high, is it nostalgia speaking?

[HazardHawk]

Because it is not limited like the newer Total War games. The same can be said about Medieval 2 and then no more to follow. Starting with Empire the games are locked against modding which lost many Total War followers. Yes, there is a workshop for most, but that is not modding, that is tweaking.

Besides, any total war Game AFTER Empire has only been challenging in dealing with the errors. Any moron can play the newer Total War games and win campaigns. Not so easy in Rome.

[Sorcerer117]

Some games are atemporal. I think this is one of those.

I've played a ♥♥♥♥ load of it in 2004, ive re-installed some days ago, get the mod Sparta Total War and i'm having a blast.

Sure the animations and graphics are not compared with new Total Wars, but i think the game still holds something by itself.

If someone have a pc that cant handle new stuff, they will be alot of happy with this.

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

Because it is not limited like the newer Total War games. The same can be said about Medieval 2 and then no more to follow. Starting with Empire the games are locked against modding which lost many Total War followers. Yes, there is a workshop for most, but that is not modding, that is tweaking.

Besides, any total war Game AFTER Empire has only been challenging in dealing with the errors. Any moron can play the newer Total War games and win campaigns. Not so easy in Rome.

Yeah, there were less structure in the older games but I don't think that was a good thing. How do you mean limited? Concerning mods?

Rome was very easy, at least after a while when you learned the mechanics. The newer games are tougher in every way (maybe not vanilla empire or vanilla warhammer). More mechanics and harder AI, less ways to exploit too. Not to say that the AI is great or anything or that all the added things are good but you're completely wrong when you say that Rome was easier or implying that they've dumbed down the games. They really haven't.

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by Fubary:

Some games are atemporal. I think this is one of those.

I've played a ♥♥♥♥ load of it in 2004, ive re-installed some days ago, get the mod Sparta Total War and i'm having a blast.

Sure the animations and graphics are not compared with new Total Wars, but i think the game still holds something by itself.

If someone have a pc that cant handle new stuff, they will be alot of happy with this.

Yeah, again I love this game and especially Med 2. I agree with everything you say too, I play a lot of older games. Graphics are a small part in how good a game is and new games seldom replace an older one completely.

My only problem is seeing people everywhere that say that this is the best total war game or that the newer games are dumber or inferior. They really aren't.

[HazardHawk]

They have very much dumbed down the games. They tried to smarten up Rome 2 and ended up having to both dumb it back down again with the Emporer Edition to replace the original release and to make it run for people who cannot afford high grade computers.

[[*UNITY*]_ james]

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

Because it is not limited like the newer Total War games. The same can be said about Medieval 2 and then no more to follow. Starting with Empire the games are locked against modding which lost many Total War followers. Yes, there is a workshop for most, but that is not modding, that is tweaking.

Besides, any total war Game AFTER Empire has only been challenging in dealing with the errors. Any moron can play the newer Total War games and win campaigns. Not so easy in Rome.

Ah yes, because playing WRE on legendary in Attila is a breeze. There are still many challenging campaigns in the newer titles.

And to be frank, I am on Kentathor's side here. Yes the newer titles are streamlined, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they have to suffer for that or be worser off. I for instance cannot imagine having diplomats as agents anymore, much easier to access diplomacy with anyone now with the click of a button.

And if you were to look at Rome 1's vanilla objectively, you would see that it really isn't all that great. Its very unpolished, (e.g. underdeveloped unit rosters for most of the factions) and don't even get me started on the shiny and bright neon faction colors. Not to mention the cringey anachronisms, like how Egypt in 270 BC somehow has units from the Old Kingdom period.

Chances are that when people speak of how good Rome 1 was, they really meant the mods for it. You can argue that modded Rome 1 is better than modded Rome 2, but I just don't see how you can still argue that for vanilla.

That being said I do miss some of Rome 1's features. Its a shame that you can't construct watchtowers or forts, and Rome 2's politics could learn a thing or two from that of Rome 1's.

[Sorcerer117]

Originally posted by Kentathor:

Originally posted by Fubary:

Some games are atemporal. I think this is one of those.

I've played a ♥♥♥♥ load of it in 2004, ive re-installed some days ago, get the mod Sparta Total War and i'm having a blast.

Sure the animations and graphics are not compared with new Total Wars, but i think the game still holds something by itself.

If someone have a pc that cant handle new stuff, they will be alot of happy with this.

Yeah, again I love this game and especially Med 2. I agree with everything you say too, I play a lot of older games. Graphics are a small part in how good a game is and new games seldom replace an older one completely.

My only problem is seeing people everywhere that say that this is the best total war game or that the newer games are dumber or inferior. They really aren't.

True. Somedays ago I installed Med 2 to play Third Age Total War, also was having alot of fun playing with Rhún. The units, the world and oh my the soundtrack is awesome.

Anyway, i can't point out one game and say "This is the best", i believe each one have something special.

I think my next run will be Med 2 Stainless Steel with Kievan-Rus, I mean, if someone owns all the Total Wars you can have so many options, there also that WWI mod, thats why i cant say "This one is best" or "this is not".

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

They have very much dumbed down the games. They tried to smarten up Rome 2 and ended up having to both dumb it back down again with the Emporer Edition to replace the original release and to make it run for people who cannot afford high grade computers.

No, lack of polish or bad programming has nothing to do with how dumb or smart the games are. The newer ones (maybe even warhammer) have way more mechanics, better AI (although not enough by far), harder gameplay and more tactics in battles. You can argue that these changes are bad or uneccesary but the newer games aren't dumbed down. The battles in Rome were way more arcadey, the AI dumb and more predictable, the historical accuracy was worse and economy was worse. I am not saying that the new games are perfect but they are deeper by far.

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by Fubary:

True. Somedays ago I installed Med 2 to play Third Age Total War, also was having alot of fun playing with Rhún. The units, the world and oh my the soundtrack is awesome.

Anyway, i can't point out one game and say "This is the best", i believe each one have something special.

I think my next run will be Med 2 Stainless Steel with Kievan-Rus, I mean, if someone owns all the Total Wars you can have so many options, there also that WWI mod, thats why i cant say "This one is best" or "this is not".

I love SS and Third Age. I play all the games, the oldest one Rome but Med 2 with mods is something special. That's the biggest mistake with the newer ones, they don't care about providing tools to the modders.

[HazardHawk]

To each their own and if you were actually Talking about Rome Total War 2 I would agree, but you are talking about Rome Total War 2 Emperor Edition. For those of us eagerly downloading Rome 2 on Day one and taking the time to play the complex game seeing what it was meant to be and then watching patch after patch castrate the game until Emperor Edition simply replaced Rome 2 so people with slower computers could play and so the children would not complain because the scripted AI could beat them even on easiest setting having no tactical knowledge to do anything about it. Oh, and let's not forget the transformation into a world of Total Economy and Food rather than Total War that began with Shogun 2 and carried into both Rome 2 and Attila used to castrate both the player and the AI making it a game of Moderated War rather than Total War. We can also add in the limited number of Generals and the Generals ability to walk out on water with ships magically appearing as they do so.

If you want to talk to me about comparisons, I suggest you go find and install Day one release, Patch 3 release, patch 7 release, and patch 11 release and learn a little about what you are talking about. I have them all installed, but generally only play patch 3 or Day one.

[WoundedPlayer]

Rome 1 and Med2 were definitely the highlight for me. Since then the games have become too complex and too limited.

Med 2 and especially Rome 1 have a lot of quality mods. I prefer Rome 1 mainly because of the annoying unit cohesion in Med 2 (and the buggy siege battles where the AI attacker gets stuck at the walls).

Rome 1 seemed to be the best of both worlds. I could never get into the newer games.

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

To each their own and if you were actually Talking about Rome Total War 2 I would agree, but you are talking about Rome Total War 2 Emperor Edition. For those of us eagerly downloading Rome 2 on Day one and taking the time to play the complex game seeing what it was meant to be and then watching patch after patch castrate the game until Emperor Edition simply replaced Rome 2 so people with slower computers could play and so the children would not complain because the scripted AI could beat them even on easiest setting having no tactical knowledge to do anything about it. Oh, and let's not forget the transformation into a world of Total Economy and Food rather than Total War that began with Shogun 2 and carried into both Rome 2 and Attila used to castrate both the player and the AI making it a game of Moderated War rather than Total War. We can also add in the limited number of Generals and the Generals ability to walk out on water with ships magically appearing as they do so.

If you want to talk to me about comparisons, I suggest you go find and install Day one release, Patch 3 release, patch 7 release, and patch 11 release and learn a little about what you are talking about. I have them all installed, but generally only play patch 3 or Day one.

I haven't mentioned Rome 2, I don't even own it. I have played it though and it was one of the weaker ones even as a "Emperor Edition".
I agree that you should be able to control single units but that is a design-choice and not something to do with dumbing down. I think the naval combat only have improved since Rome 1, it's good that you can transport units over water in my opinion and that is a simplification that I think was good.
That you have to manage more then just battles is also good in my opinion, but they must polish it further. If you only fight the battles there are mods that gets rid of food, money and sanitaion requirements etc so people who find it tedious can install those. I don't want them to think the game is too complex because that is what your'e saying, at least it sounds like that. Even if you meant that, that's okay. But I personally want the game to have more features, not less.

[Kentathor]

Originally posted by FourthAgeMods:

Rome 1 and Med2 were definitely the highlight for me. Since then the games have become too complex and too limited.

Med 2 and especially Rome 1 have a lot of quality mods. I prefer Rome 1 mainly because of the annoying unit cohesion in Med 2 (and the buggy siege battles where the AI attacker gets stuck at the walls).

Rome 1 seemed to be the best of both worlds. I could never get into the newer games.

To each their own, I think that Rome was good but that the later games only have improved upon it. It was too rough. That has it's charm too of course and luckily, if you like the newer ones; you can play both. I just get annoyed when people have these rose-tinted glasses and pretend that it wasn't simpler, less buggy as the new ones etc.

[Hat8]

Originally posted by Kentathor:

Yet I still see people saying how this is the best one or how good everything is in this. It was great when it came out and held up well for many years. Now it's not. It's fun to play sure but the mechanics in the game are barebones compared to most other similar games and newer total wars.

What have new total wars actually added? All they've done is simplify for the most part.

Hell, I'd argue that the combat is worse since there's no unit collision and the recent games campaign maps are so bland and easy to manage.

[Kentathor]

Simplified what? More mechanics overall, tech tree, family and faction tree expanded, more combat mechanics, better AI in every way, more balanced units, naval battles, better UI and better menues and added better story elements. They have also done many improvements such as getting rid of watchtowers and the need for diplomats. They are defineatly more complex, have just more features in them and have improved the existing things Rome had.
You can argue that you want it simpler or that stuff have been implemented bad but you can't say that they have simplified it.

Combat is tough to evaluate, the old combat wasn't perfect and the new system have improved over it in many ways but the unit collision is something they need to bring back. They add some good things but take away good things too.

Bland campaign map? It's way more detailed and different between locations then the old ones, harder to manage too. The old one was super easy to control after a while. Or do you mean battle-maps?