Godtier builds?

[FrankieWuzHere]

Back when I used to play I remember that there were a few "godtier" builds.

We had the haruspex which would have 100% dodge a majority of the time and was an (Nearly) unkillable class. (80% max dodge nerf)

Brigand who would deal an outrageous amount of damage (Split nerfed...) and have massive sheet damage

Conquerers who were tanky SoBs who could get nearly every resist maxed and still kick ass. (More resistances go down in difficulty making this much harder to achieve...

Pet builds (Soothsayer I played) who could hold their own much better than now... (Major monster buff in Act3+4... Pets die in milisecs even in epic. Not sure if legendary fixes it...) Sure you can deal dmg yourself but I never liked that part of the build.



These are the builds I mainly used back in the day... So does anyone know what the new "godtier" builds are now a days? Or if they still are the usual ones. (Also if I forgot anyone feel free to tell me)

[Valkinaz]

I dont remember game where pets build were "godlevel" builds abd classes. But daamn if they are satisfied to play as xD

[AH-1 Cobra]

I have 2 "god tier" pet builds. A soothsayer and diviner. Melee builds like Conqueror with decent gear crap all over either of my pet builds. As does Haruspex. Met a conqueror online who was using % exp gear in a few of his slots, and not even optimally geared in the slightest had over 3x the effective killing speed of my considerably better geared Soothsayer. Made my own Conqueror just to find out the difference is even larger when I start throwing on BiS gear on a Conqueror. The difference is night and day. Anyone who claims otherwise must be playing a different game, because the difference is that huge.

With bad gear, pet builds have reasonably good performance, but when you start throwing on high end legendary items onto your builds, then pet builds get comparatively weaker to melee and ranged (bow) builds.

Nordic games didn't change anything. At the end of the day Conqueror and Haruspex are still the 2 best builds when properly geared up.

I can do xMax x10 with x5 bosses on Conqueror easily. Even x5 Hades on Legendary. They're all dead before colossus form expires. No kiting involved, just a straight up bloodbath. God IS a Conqueror. Haruspex could do x5 hades as well, but they'd have to kite, or at least not stand still and attack hades x5. Conqueror stands still.

[Nathiri]

I'm sure other classes and better geared characters in general could clear faster than my pet build. I don't know (or frankly care) what is godtier in this game. All I said was that pets were not necessarily as squishy as described in the OP, since in my experience they are not remotely squishy in epic.

I've been arguing this for a couple of weeks now, since there have been several threads made by people struggling with petbuilds, with contributors chimining in with what seemed to be misinformed or at least outdated info. This idea of pets being totally crap keeps getting repeated.

Pets are good enough to play the game as it is, unmodded. Pet builds are helping me collect stuff I need to play other classes. I don't have godly gear, I came back to AE with no characters and no stash. So, to me that means they are viable up to end of act 3 legendary anyway. Act 4 has other issues going on which means better gear is needed, for everyone.

[FrankieWuzHere]

Originally posted by Liguar:

I'm sure other classes and better geared characters in general could clear faster than my pet build. I don't know (or frankly care) what is godtier in this game. All I said was that pets were not necessarily as squishy as described in the OP, since in my experience they are not remotely squishy in epic.

I've been arguing this for a couple of weeks now, since there have been several threads made by people struggling with petbuilds, with contributors chimining in with what seemed to be misinformed or at least outdated info. This idea of pets being totally crap keeps getting repeated.

Pets are good enough to play the game as it is, unmodded. Pet builds are helping me collect stuff I need to play other classes. I don't have godly gear, I came back to AE with no characters and no stash. So, to me that means they are viable up to end of act 3 legendary anyway. Act 4 has other issues going on which means better gear is needed, for everyone.

Never said they were completely crap 0.o I just said that my wolves get insta killed when they're summoned as level 20s on Epic Typhon. Only my lich survives and I need to spam heal him. (He's maxed as well with his defense skill maxed.

[Nathiri]

Not you buddy, you just said your pets were squishy in that instance.

I added the bit about pet threads in general as there have been various other threads complaining about pet weakness, where people have chimed in saying they're useless at the end of normal. and that they'll be useless again end of epic etc. Almost as many as the Alastor whinge threads ;)

[FrankieWuzHere]

Originally posted by Liguar:

Not you buddy, you just said your pets were squishy in that instance.

I added the bit about pet threads in general as there have been various other threads complaining about pet weakness, where people have chimed in saying they're useless at the end of normal. and that they'll be useless again end of epic etc. Almost as many as the Alastor whinge threads ;)

Ah okay my bad man. Yeah they are really weak for me right now... But it might just be that I don't have any legendaries yet. I bet if I get a single one they'll start to get much much stronger.

[Nathiri]

Originally posted by Orendil:

Ah okay my bad man. Yeah they are really weak for me right now... But it might just be that I don't have any legendaries yet. I bet if I get a single one they'll start to get much much stronger.

The good news is that the new wraith lord tier of pet jewellery that you can find in leg is equivalent (pet-stat wise) to the black pearl set pieces. Without all the character stats, but I guess being able to socket them and to choose something other than elemental dmg is pretty good. It's just a matter of dedicated shopping.

Found a couple of wraithlord rings and a pendant (they're green) at the great wall vendor, no idea where they start showing up, and haven't found a wraithlord staff yet. The pendant was the same as the ring.

80 elem +12% elem dmg
92 phys +12 % phys dmg

So I don't know what the math would be on whether that chunk of damage is better than ye olde "...of convocation" ammy, but mine is sacred so it's hard to justify replacing at this point.

[FrankieWuzHere]

Originally posted by Liguar:

Originally posted by Orendil:

Ah okay my bad man. Yeah they are really weak for me right now... But it might just be that I don't have any legendaries yet. I bet if I get a single one they'll start to get much much stronger.

The good news is that the new wraith lord tier of pet jewellery that you can find in leg is equivalent (pet-stat wise) to the black pearl set pieces. Without all the character stats, but I guess being able to socket them and to choose something other than elemental dmg is pretty good. It's just a matter of dedicated shopping.

Found a couple of wraithlord rings and a pendant (they're green) at the great wall vendor, no idea where they start showing up, and haven't found a wraithlord staff yet. The pendant was the same as the ring.

80 elem +12% elem dmg
92 phys +12 % phys dmg

So I don't know what the math would be on whether that chunk of damage is better than ye olde "...of convocation" ammy, but mine is sacred so it's hard to justify replacing at this point.

Damn the top I've found was like +40ish damage. I need to shop for sure! 0.o

[Lord Draco (Draco Vlasavius)]

Originally posted by Orendil:

Damn the top I've found was like +40ish damage. I need to shop for sure! 0.o

I also ended up relying on pets as my Soothsayer and the 'random' drops and shop items never were impressive. I was given advice from many vets here in the TQ-AE forum to use pet enhancing rings and such. In Act IV, I did use two rings here in these screens:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=770595021
(+26 Dex to my Soothsayer, +47 dam & 10% Phy dam for my pets)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=770594939
(+55 Def to my Soothsayer, +47 dam & 10% Phy dam for my pets)

Things went no different after that change. I conclude what you appear to as well, it's not the pet 'damage' that is in question. They appear to get wiped out in seconds. My three 50lvl wolves, 50lvl Liche King, 12lvl Ether Lord Outsider and a Djinni were 'handily' decimated by the Centaur Hero that I faced after going thru the Formicid Queens caverns. I kept the rings for much of the side quest's from those in Medea's Grove during Act IV/Epic difficulty.

My pets just die to fast. Period. It doesn't matter how much damage they can deliver if they die to fast. I eventually took a $9mil gp gamble and purchased a Staff that gave my pets another boost from Vitality damage. -Yikes...! It also made 'no diff'.

$9mil !!!! Gone! 'rrrraaaaargh'! -sniff,....I think I want to sue someone to get my gold back! :)

I sold all the items and just use scrolls more.

I'm in Styx now, fighting onward to finish the game at Epic lvl.

[kekkuli]

Originally posted by Pitvipers:

Originally posted by Orendil:

Back when I used to play I remember that there were a few "godtier" builds.

We had the haruspex which would have 100% dodge a majority of the time and was an (Nearly) unkillable class. (80% max dodge nerf)

Brigand who would deal an outrageous amount of damage (Split nerfed...) and have massive sheet damage

Conquerers who were tanky SoBs who could get nearly every resist maxed and still kick ♥♥♥. (More resistances go down in difficulty making this much harder to achieve...

Pet builds (Soothsayer I played) who could hold their own much better than now... (Major monster buff in Act3+4... Pets die in milisecs even in epic. Not sure if legendary fixes it...) Sure you can deal dmg yourself but I never liked that part of the build.



These are the builds I mainly used back in the day... So does anyone know what the new "godtier" builds are now a days? Or if they still are the usual ones. (Also if I forgot anyone feel free to tell me)

the hunter centric builds seem to be really stroll currently, with dext now upping their dmg, they;re in a very solid spot

DEx upping their damage? what do you mean by that, the bleed damage ? Or piercing? But dexterity has always upped pierce damage, and i find bleeding pretty much useless to invest on.

AS for pet builds, my wolves have yet to die in epic, and i'm in middle of act 3. I'm illusionis´t, so my traps are supporting the wolves, and i got tons of DA myself so i tank most melee mobs.
But even if i don't, the wolves are VERY durable, i got + 400 health from gear to them, (puppetmaster staff+conquerors mark) and heart of the oak gives like 95% life. Plague also helps by making enemies deal less damage and hit slower.

But to answer to the topic, i would say conqueror is still pretty imba, brigand with spear could be pretty fun because calculated strike got buffed by like 50%. Might try it myself next after my wolftrapper build is in legendary. Some mage builds work good as well, like ternion. Dual wield classes are ofc good.

[Val]

Originally posted by kekkuli:

DEx upping their damage? what do you mean by that, the bleed damage ? Or piercing? But dexterity has always upped pierce damage, and i find bleeding pretty much useless to invest on.

Dex hadn't upped Marksmanship/Scattershot, now it does.

[kekkuli]

Originally posted by Val:

Originally posted by kekkuli:

DEx upping their damage? what do you mean by that, the bleed damage ? Or piercing? But dexterity has always upped pierce damage, and i find bleeding pretty much useless to invest on.

Dex hadn't upped Marksmanship/Scattershot, now it does.

Okay, but scattershot got nerfed so badly it makes no sense.

[Val]

Originally posted by kekkuli:

Originally posted by Val:

Dex hadn't upped Marksmanship/Scattershot, now it does.

Okay, but scattershot got nerfed so badly it makes no sense.

How's this related?

It doesn't matter how good or bad the scattershot is, because by the end of the day only your single target DPS matters, which scattershot never affected in the first place. As for trash monsters - trash is still trash, even nerfed scattershot should be enough for them. Ghosts and Automatoes could be troublesome though.

[kekkuli]

Originally posted by Val:

Originally posted by kekkuli:

Okay, but scattershot got nerfed so badly it makes no sense.

How's this related?

It doesn't matter how good or bad the scattershot is, because by the end of the day only your single target DPS matters, which scattershot never affected in the first place. As for trash monsters - trash is still trash, even nerfed scattershot should be enough for them. Ghosts and Automatoes could be troublesome though.

And have you tried a bow build in AE? Because i have, and area damage is what really made hunter strong with scatter shot. Now area damage is much weaker, i'd rather kill lots of things faster, than kill only single targets little faster.

And single target damage still was not a issue with bow builds even in pre-nordic.

[Val]

Originally posted by kekkuli:

Originally posted by Val:

How's this related?

It doesn't matter how good or bad the scattershot is, because by the end of the day only your single target DPS matters, which scattershot never affected in the first place. As for trash monsters - trash is still trash, even nerfed scattershot should be enough for them. Ghosts and Automatoes could be troublesome though.

And have you tried a bow build in AE? Because i have, and area damage is what really made hunter strong with scatter shot. Now area damage is much weaker, i'd rather kill lots of things faster, than kill only single targets little faster.

And single target damage still was not a issue with bow builds even in pre-nordic.

In short - no. I was playing the bow haruspex when beta patch with class changes came out. I had played only a little more before going back to Grim Dawn, and my memories about the time are rather vague.

Anyway, what are you getting at? I only showed up here to correct your statement on dex and pierce damage.
Yes, I know that scattershot is now weaker, but until I have played it myself I'm inclined to think that you're overreacting.