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But for legendary, 850 OA/DA is fine, (they buffed hero's and bosses with +200 DA in a recent patch) so you might even need 1000 OA now.
Just remember OA only applies to the player's melee attacks, otherwise you don't need to care for it. DA only applies to enemies melee attacks. These two stats are more important to a melee build that has to hit and get hit in close quarters.
DA can still be important for ranged builds, as you don't want to be crit by melee enemies running at you, but you can get away with having 300-600 range if you have skills or ways of % reduced damage to the enemy. It will mean their damage gets multiplied by 0.6 for example, instead of 1. Squall and plague are a few to mention.
Other ways of dealing with low DA, slowing their attack speed, stunning, fumbling, confusing, etc ..
Another thing to add, since only Pierce damage and Physical damage can crit, having high resistances to those type help even with low enough DA to get crit by an enemy.
Also they have altered/ added some OA and DA to bosses and heroes in the last patch, so giving a good number is more of a guess at the moment.
For DA, I would have said in the past 400/ 800/ 1100 at end of each level.
For OA (melee builds) add 100 to each above, so 500/ 900/ 1200.
You can get away with a lot less, depending on your build. Example is using Study Prey/ Flush Out which without +4 skills still reduces enemies Defence by 36%. Battle Rage adds 36% Offensive ability.
So check tooltips. As you might see to have an easy Normal run a Slayer is quite fun and easy as an early skill in both will give an extra 222 OA and Da.
Ok cool, Yeah I am playing a Conqueror. Trying to go for Hardcore Legend. Currently nearing end of Act 1 Epic and was just curious. Sitting on just shy of 900/600 OA and DA respectively, but I also have 42% dodge chance and 35% avoid projectiles chance, on top of 55% block chance (and have Quick Recovery in case). Mobs and bosses aren't really doing much to me, but thought I would just ask in advance so I know what to expect going forward. Only guy that has actually come close to killing me so far was Toxeus in Secret Passage on Normal.
In terms of completing Hardcore Legend, do you only need to complete up till Act 5 on Legendary, or do you now also need to complete Eternal Embers with the addition of it in the new expansion?
If you do have EE, from what I remember, you get 1 achievement for finishing Ragnarok and another for finishing EE. 1 achievement was finishing Hardcore Legendary and the other for finishing EE with a mastery.
Just out of curiosity I checked 3 Legendary Hardcore builds to see what OA and DA they had. IMPORTANT to note they just went through Ragnarok and EE and not built your "average" way. All high hp and "physical" resist.
Spiritualist OA 214 DA 450
Hermit OA 202 DA 460
Disruptor OA 456 DA 752
old hunting and dream passives gives +% DA thats probably why u got 2k+ DA disc verison
Block chance can actually be maxed out at 100%, but there is something called shield recovery time, every time your shield blocks an attack it goes into recovery and cannot block again until around 3 seconds. That means even with Shield Recovery hitting -90% (if taken to 12/8) and 100% block chance, there will be a 0.3 window where you can still be hit by attacks.
A great shield if you can find one https://tq-db.net/en/search/einherjar's+stand (comes with -% recovery time) drops in Act 5
https://tq-db.net/en/search/blacksteel+bulwark is also good, comes +% shield block chance. drops in Act 5
https://tq-db.net/en/search/turtle+shell
awesome charm thats easily farmable and provides +% shield block chance + recovery
(these will help a lot when quick recovery isnt off cooldown)
Hardcore will require you to play very carefully, because there's a lot bs damage that can shotgun you or instant gib you, definitely if you are playing on Very Fast speed because the internal clock of the game means everything is faster (like taking damage) except your own reflexes. But if you are playing on Normal or Fast, it's less problematic and with Battle Standard and Colossus form you have great tools to stay alive.
You only need to complete the campaign for achievements (last time I checked), which is the last boss of Ragnarok DLC.
Yeah 900 OA without Battle Rage. Been fairly lucky with items. I can get DA to that with my other shield if I want to, but my current one gives extra % to dodge. I'm not getting crit as of now from what I can tell, but if I do I can switch to that one.
Yeah I am aware of recovery, always keep it in mind. I appreciate the links to items, will definitely keep a look out for them as I move through the acts.
Overall, the "Cut Off" point for OA and DA does not exist, because they don't make much sense to actually make a difference below or above a certain number.
I'll just be simple on OA, if you need a number, I'd say 1000 OA in legendary Act 5 is the number you want so that you won't miss attacks. Consider the recent change increased boss DA, the number could go up to 1200. However consider you are Conqueror, you have reliable source to reduce enemy DA, so your OA simply won't be a problem, 850+ is already fine.
For DA, there is no point to get high DA so that you won't get crit, although the number to not get crit is around 1000 in legendary Act 5. I know a lot of people here don't agree on this, but that's the fact. Crit multiplier in this game is capped at 150%, so even if you are 100% get crit...well in real case it won't happen, your chance to get crit is around 70% even you have only ~200 DA from dex, damage taken is increased by roughly 70%*1.5+30%=135%, yeah you take 135% of normal damage.
So math time, say you have 5000 health, if you start from ~200 DA from dex, and raise it by 800, to 1000, your EHP increased from 5000/135%=3700, to 5000. And what if I choose to ignore DA and raise other stats instead? If I choose to increase health, I need 5000*1.35-5000=1750 health, if I choose to increase resistance, I need 1-1/1.35%=26% physical and pierce resistance, provided that you have 0% physical and pierce resistance. Well if I combine with health and resistance, I need 675 health and 16% physical and pierce resistance to get same EHP. Now, which do you think is easier to get from gear? 800 DA, or 675 HP+16% physical and pierce resistance?
I know I didn't take armor into calculation, but that will be a very sophisticated problem if I do because I have to ask what armor do you use, do you have defense mastery, do you face enemy elites or heroes, do they use spear (high pierce damage not reduced by armor) or club, etc etc. Honestly higher armor would favor DA as crit multiplier applies before armor reduction so crit or not makes a larger difference in the end. But I also didn't mention non physical/pierce damage from melee as they simply won't crit, and they are indeed significant as well. I'll just say none of them will change the conclusion: it's not effective to raise your low DA (200-400) to 1000 so that you won't get crit.
That does NOT mean DA is useless. The real power of DA is on the other part of the curve: when you have higher DA than enemy OA. As you may or may not know, high DA does not only result in evade attacks, but also result in damage reduction. Although in AE devs changed OA-DA formula and hard capped DA dodge chance to 90%, it's still powerful regardless. If you increase your DA from 1000 to 1400, and you still have 5000 health, guess how much EHP do you get? You will get ~40% chance to evade, and ~25% melee damage reduction. So total EHP multiplier = 1.25*(1/(1-40%)=208%. If you further increase your DA to 1800, the number would be 365%. All numbers are calculated by someone else based on current nPTH, or normal ProbabilityToHit.
So to compare:
Raise your DA from 200 to 1000, you get 135% EHP, or increased your tankiness against melee by 35%. None physical/pierce melee damage is not reduced as they did not crit in the first place.
Raise your DA from 1000 to 1800, you get 365% EHP, or increased your tankiness against melee by 265%, which is 265/35%=7.6 times more effective than previous. None physical/pierce damage is also evaded, but not reduced.
To conclude, the correct strategy is split, not universal: if you do NOT have any innate skills to raise your DA, and you are not dex-based class, just IGNORE DA and leave crit be. Try dodge/resistance/health/kill enemy faster to keep safe. If you have innate skills to raise your DA and/or you are dex-based class so that you can raise your DA high enough not to get crit easily, please continue to raise it to at least 1400, and the higher the better.
For example if your shield is "53% Chance to block 736 damage", and you take a hit that deals 500 physical damage. You can raise your block chance to 100%, but if your DA is not high enough so you get crit, the damage may become 500*1.5=750, which exceed the block value of the shield. Therefore, even if you "blocked", you blocked nothing, you still take 750 damage. Moreover, your melee block chance has an hidden block chance modifier that is related to your DA and enemy OA, so even you have 100% chance to block theoretically, you won't 100% block in reality. So given the two factors above, if you want to fully utilize block, you need to also raise your DA to around 1000.
And last but not least, there's the 90% block recovery cap. You will have 0.25/0.3 seconds cooldown on block check (please note that if you passed block check, but blocked nothing as said above, you still enter block cooldown). So it's better if block can be paired with melee dodge or evade (even higher DA), as both of them happens prior to block check.
1. attacker's damage calculation, including damage reduction to attacker
2. reflection/retaliation. reflected damage bypass step 3-5.
3. dodge melee/projectile
4. (melee) crit, evade and damage reduction from OA-DA
5. block
6. resistance
7. (physical) armor
8. damage absorption