2 Questions 1 Post

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Firstly, building paladin and I'm in epic right now. I've invested into adrenaline and the recharge reduction ability and the more and more I go through the game, the less and less effective it feels. By the time I get to legendary (or just tougher acts in epic), will there be a point when adrenaline stops being effective or does it become more and more useful as any type of damage mitigation (regen in this case) is necessary?

Secondly, I've noticed in the DPS calculator that equipping multiple sources of bleed/ poison increases DPS. From what I've read, only the highest source of DoTs are applied to targets and multiple sources don't stack. Does this mean that the DPS calculator doesn't distinguish between different sources and only checks for the damage source?

Thanks

[chris.ferrantegerard]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Firstly, building paladin and I'm in epic right now. I've invested into adrenaline and the recharge reduction ability and the more and more I go through the game, the less and less effective it feels. By the time I get to legendary (or just tougher acts in epic), will there be a point when adrenaline stops being effective or does it become more and more useful as any type of damage mitigation (regen in this case) is necessary?

Personally I use Adrenaline more for the buff from the final synergy, Defensive Reaction than the health regen from base skill. Gulp down pots for health and stack up defensive stats to avoid spike damage.

Secondly, I've noticed in the DPS calculator that equipping multiple sources of bleed/ poison increases DPS. From what I've read, only the highest source of DoTs are applied to targets and multiple sources don't stack. Does this mean that the DPS calculator doesn't distinguish between different sources and only checks for the damage source?

The DPS calculator isn't really a realiable source. As for DOTs, only the highest DOT (of the same damage type) is applied. What do you mean by 'equipping multiple sources of DOT'; do you mean gear? If you have a weapon that applies X DOT and, let's say, a ring, that is adding +DOT of that type, that damage should be added onto the DOT applied from your weapon attack. What won't stack is damage from two different sources (weapon attack or skill)

[Lobo de hielo]

My own personal view is the 50%+ physical damage with the Defensive Reaction synergy is really nice. Adrenaline can be great, especially playing a tankier build you expect to get hit a lot so Adrenaline proc's a lot.
BUT, only if you have enough skill points to use, (depending on how you have built your toon) it is not worth putting a lot of points into it until you have Rally + synergies, Battle Standard + synergies and Quick Recovery to a nice level.

DPS counter (even after all these hours) I rarely check, much prefer to see what damage I am really doing by having the filter for damage on or using a CE when testing.

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by chris.ferrantegerard:

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Firstly,
The DPS calculator isn't really a realiable source. As for DOTs, only the highest DOT (of the same damage type) is applied. What do you mean by 'equipping multiple sources of DOT'; do you mean gear? If you have a weapon that applies X DOT and, let's say, a ring, that is adding +DOT of that type, that damage should be added onto the DOT applied from your weapon attack. What won't stack is damage from two different sources (weapon attack or skill)

I mean if I am dual wielding weapons that have poison damage or have armor that has poison retaliation in combination with other weapons/ armor that provide a source of poison damage. Sorry, my wording was janky in the OP.

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

My own personal view is the 50%+ physical damage with the Defensive Reaction synergy is really nice. Adrenaline can be great, especially playing a tankier build you expect to get hit a lot so Adrenaline proc's a lot.
BUT, only if you have enough skill points to use, (depending on how you have built your toon) it is not worth putting a lot of points into it until you have Rally + synergies, Battle Standard + synergies and Quick Recovery to a nice level.

DPS counter (even after all these hours) I rarely check, much prefer to see what damage I am really doing by having the filter for damage on or using a CE when testing.

So basically what you're saying is until you have several other abilities that provide synergy with Adrenaline, don't put too much into it UNTIL these things are set up to put together? My build is a melee/tank paladin build so I don't have access to Battle Standard, or is there specific late-game gear that provides Battle Standard? What are the requisites aside from Resilience and Defensive Reactions that justify x points into Adrenaline, and how many points would you put into it if realistically if it's only that tree of abilities I'm working with? Thanks.

[Lobo de hielo]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Originally posted by slayor3000:

My own personal view is the 50%+ physical damage with the Defensive Reaction synergy is really nice. Adrenaline can be great, especially playing a tankier build you expect to get hit a lot so Adrenaline proc's a lot.
BUT, only if you have enough skill points to use, (depending on how you have built your toon) it is not worth putting a lot of points into it until you have Rally + synergies, Battle Standard + synergies and Quick Recovery to a nice level.

DPS counter (even after all these hours) I rarely check, much prefer to see what damage I am really doing by having the filter for damage on or using a CE when testing.

So basically what you're saying is until you have several other abilities that provide synergy with Adrenaline, don't put too much into it UNTIL these things are set up to put together? My build is a melee/tank paladin build so I don't have access to Battle Standard, or is there specific late-game gear that provides Battle Standard? What are the requisites aside from Resilience and Defensive Reactions that justify x points into Adrenaline, and how many points would you put into it if realistically if it's only that tree of abilities I'm working with? Thanks.

Apologies, I meant Battle Awareness. Sorry for the confusion.
Now confused though. As you make it sound as if you are not putting points into the skills that make a melee/tank a true tank (need to include armour handling of course).
But Adrenaline until I get towards the end of epic and hopefully have +2 or +3 skills, I would have only 1 pointed each. I then decide which skills need points the most. Defensive Reaction is the synergy I would first look at maxing. Then balance Adrenaline and Resilience until I see it proc a lot, because by then I might have some extra cdr from gear.
I have never seen the health regen of Adrenaline as a must have for a tank build, when you can at some point hit Rally almost constantly and recoup the majority of your health.

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

Apologies, I meant Battle Awareness. Sorry for the confusion.
Now confused though. As you make it sound as if you are not putting points into the skills that make a melee/tank a true tank (need to include armour handling of course).
But Adrenaline until I get towards the end of epic and hopefully have +2 or +3 skills, I would have only 1 pointed each. I then decide which skills need points the most. Defensive Reaction is the synergy I would first look at maxing. Then balance Adrenaline and Resilience until I see it proc a lot, because by then I might have some extra cdr from gear.
I have never seen the health regen of Adrenaline as a must have for a tank build, when you can at some point hit Rally almost constantly and recoup the majority of your health.

I actually have Battle Awareness almost nearly maxed (I prioritized Storm for a while to get the utility going, and I've just switched back to Defense. I haven't taken enough damage yet to justify increasing it beyond 10). I also have Armor Handling maxed, I have Rally upgraded enough to heal my entire health pool (will keep upgrading as I get more health), 1 point in Quick Recovery, and 1 point in Focus.

So you're saying max defensive reaction and THEN put equal points into Adrenaline and Resilience?

[Lobo de hielo]

It is what I would do but also ensure pushing Quick Recovery and Focus up more, especially for going into Legendary. If you end up with +4 skills and a little cdr (maybe 40%), your shield will be up almost constantly. I have stood in front of a group of archers and just let them fire at me, health bar did not even move. It was wise to put a point into it early to get the extra 10% armour absorption.
Also remember with that amount of cdr you can have Rally up most of the time and the Defiance synergy gives 65% elemental resistances and Iron Will covers nearly all secondary resistances. You only need concentrate on a few resistances.
You seem to have everything covered for a top build.

[-=GHS=-BoonDock™]

if your interested in a partner to play with add me

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

It is what I would do but also ensure pushing Quick Recovery and Focus up more, especially for going into Legendary. If you end up with +4 skills and a little cdr (maybe 40%), your shield will be up almost constantly. I have stood in front of a group of archers and just let them fire at me, health bar did not even move. It was wise to put a point into it early to get the extra 10% armour absorption.
Also remember with that amount of cdr you can have Rally up most of the time and the Defiance synergy gives 65% elemental resistances and Iron Will covers nearly all secondary resistances. You only need concentrate on a few resistances.
You seem to have everything covered for a top build.

Thank you. I just got to Act 2 on Epic so I am still a while off from Legendary (assuming the pacing is about the same first time through, should just be a few days from now), I'll have more of these abilities leveled up, I focused more on damage and attribute distribution on normal since I was more focused on running through to get quick XP which worked pretty well and didn't really have issues, but I know enemies scale above you in epic and legendary which is what I'm trying to get ahead on now before I start hitting walls.

So order or leveling would be Quick Recovery > Focus > Defensive Reaction > Adrenaline/ Resilience?
I should also mention I have 1 point in Iron Will. How many points do I want to put into that to reach the 80% threshold? I don't know what late game armor resistances look like so is this another 1 point and done?

[Lobo de hielo]

Originally posted by RealVanillaSmooth:

Originally posted by slayor3000:

It is what I would do but also ensure pushing Quick Recovery and Focus up more, especially for going into Legendary. If you end up with +4 skills and a little cdr (maybe 40%), your shield will be up almost constantly. I have stood in front of a group of archers and just let them fire at me, health bar did not even move. It was wise to put a point into it early to get the extra 10% armour absorption.
Also remember with that amount of cdr you can have Rally up most of the time and the Defiance synergy gives 65% elemental resistances and Iron Will covers nearly all secondary resistances. You only need concentrate on a few resistances.
You seem to have everything covered for a top build.

Thank you. I just got to Act 2 on Epic so I am still a while off from Legendary (assuming the pacing is about the same first time through, should just be a few days from now), I'll have more of these abilities leveled up, I focused more on damage and attribute distribution on normal since I was more focused on running through to get quick XP which worked pretty well and didn't really have issues, but I know enemies scale above you in epic and legendary which is what I'm trying to get ahead on now before I start hitting walls.

So order or leveling would be Quick Recovery > Focus > Defensive Reaction > Adrenaline/ Resilience?
I should also mention I have 1 point in Iron Will. How many points do I want to put into that to reach the 80% threshold? I don't know what late game armor resistances look like so is this another 1 point and done?

Looks good. Iron Will just 1 point for now. Later in Legendary if you hit +4 skills and have 2 spare to use then its maxed.
p.s You do have a point or so in the "God Killer", Colossus Form? Very useful against Typhon.

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

Looks good. Iron Will just 1 point for now. Later in Legendary if you hit +4 skills and have 2 spare to use then its maxed.
p.s You do have a point or so in the "God Killer", Colossus Form? Very useful against Typhon.

I don't have a point in it YET. It was something I didn't feel the need to rush to in normal so I focused my time more on foundational stuff even though I realize that Colossus Form becomes a hallmark for WHY you eventually want to play Defensive. On my assassin in normal (level 30 at the time) I killed him in under 2 minutes, Conjurer was about a minute and a half. Paladin took about 10 minutes which was A LOT longer and made me understand how good the form would be for trouble bosses. Then the albino spider boss in act 4 was crushing me even with 80% lighting resist, 500+ defensive, and 450-ish armor. After that I started putting more mastery into Defensive and took Iron will until I can unlock it in about 3 or so levels I think

[Lobo de hielo]

Yep. Colossus Form you do not use much, but great for as you said the trouble bosses.
That damn spider is the bane of my life. I always kill it, but it gets me running around so often, its not funny.
That web decreases your defence ability 33% and it deals a lot of physical and vitality as well. I usually use a scroll of crushing vortex just to deal with the pesky minions.

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

Yep. Colossus Form you do not use much, but great for as you said the trouble bosses.
That damn spider is the bane of my life. I always kill it, but it gets me running around so often, its not funny.
That web decreases your defence ability 33% and it deals a lot of physical and vitality as well. I usually use a scroll of crushing vortex just to deal with the pesky minions.

LOL Ok so it wasn't just me having issues with that boss. I thought that thing was a few notches stronger than everything else. That thing killed me where Hades couldn't lol
Is Colossus a good scroll to use there if I am clearing out the spiders with Lightning Bolts? That's what I've used on some of the stone carrier when melee gets shredded by some of them

[Lobo de hielo]

Are you on about Scroll of Primal Chaos, I always carry 1 or 2 with me. Its great for the extra damage (physical and elemental) that it gives. A defence build in epic would still benefit a little from the extra damage absorption. With a Paladin build (with no Colossus Form yet) I would most likely use that and lay Squall + synergy ( obscured visibility) for its reduced damaged and reduced resistances right at my feet.
That spider (for me) is one of the toughest bosses in the game, especially if you do not know how hard it hits, since it looks like nothing.
You do know they have Lightning/ poison and pierce resistances?

[RealVanillaSmooth]

Originally posted by slayor3000:

Are you on about Scroll of Primal Chaos, I always carry 1 or 2 with me. Its great for the extra damage (physical and elemental) that it gives. A defence build in epic would still benefit a little from the extra damage absorption. With a Paladin build (with no Colossus Form yet) I would most likely use that and lay Squall + synergy ( obscured visibility) for its reduced damaged and reduced resistances right at my feet.
That spider (for me) is one of the toughest bosses in the game, especially if you do not know how hard it hits, since it looks like nothing.
You do know they have Lightning/ poison and pierce resistances?

I had no idea they HAD those resistances, but I suspected they might have had lightning resistance since my Lightning Bolts do about 70% of most mobs health (for primary target, not Chain Lightning). I haven't looked up the health, but it seems pretty beefy too. I remember on my assassin I went back to scumming it up by laying traps and kiting it in circles.

I don't know how many cyclops scrolls there are, I just assumed there was an upgraded one of each for each new difficulty, not including DLC scrolls lol