Small Torch DPS

[Pax]

Just noticed today that the DPS for the Small Torch I'm still using in Epic triples or more by the end of fighting a large mob. It's resting DPS is 404 (for me), but at the end of a small battle it's nearly 1200. I was shocked! I'd never checked my weapon DPS after a heated battle before, is DSP increasing like that normal, or is it tied to Rune Mastery (maybe Warfare, too, but don't play that Mastery often)?

One thing I've noticed with the Small Torch is it's insanely fast and fires as rapidly as a machine gun, none of the other throwing weapons I've tried move anywhere near that fast.

[Necanthrope]

If your using a basic attack modifying skill like Onslaught or Rune Weapon that have 'charge levels' then damage will increase with each level. Charge levels are linked to hits so faster weapons will ramp up the bonus faster. The charges start to decay as soon as you stop attacking.

[Pax]

Right, DPS did drop almost immediately. I thought it was tied to Runes Mastery (Warfare, too), and knew it was probably a dumb question when I asked it, but had to know for sure. Still, that Lvl 8 Small Torch still working in Epic? It's stated damage stats are nothing, and it just says "Fast", not "So fast you won't believe it." You should see it take down the Terra Cotta Soldiers, that thing's like a machine gun. LOL I pass it between players, and it even works with my Lvl 60. She's only Epic in Act III, though, never had a Legendary in all the years I've played, too much of a slog, so don't know if that magic torch would work on the highest rank monsters.

However, for me it was lousy against Typhon, couldn't stay close to him long enough to get the machine gun going with all those rocks he drops, and giving him distance just meant he sucked the life out of me. Seems Typhon was designed with a Warrior in mind. Anyway, had to use a sword and stay close to him. After Typhon that Small Torch was operating beautifully again on everything else. It took down all the Telkin and dragons were torch-fodder (dragon mages were tricky), but Typhon was another matter. Think Typhon can be done with the Small Torch, too, though. because someone said there was a challenge to do the entire game with just the Small Torch. I failed with that challenge. Maybe next time.

[Graeystone]

I have two of them for dual wielding. One has a bit larger damage than the other. For some real brutality a Dragon Slayer(Runemaster/Hunter). Maxed Volley, Scatter Shot(choosing Marksmanship instead of Rune Weapon), Runeword Explode/Burn. It turns into carnage on the battlefield. Thunder Strike/Unleash is the skill attack. Quite a few projectiles when it's used. Study Prey/Flush for debuffing. Wood Lore may turn the machine gun into a potential gatling.

The only skill I'm not sure about is Gouge. I don't know if it'll work with Thrown Weapons or just Bows and Spears like the description says.

The craziest thing(at least to me) is that I have an accessory I keep in the shared stash that gives Blade Honing. . .and it will work with a Small Torch! Crazy Blade Honing won't work with a Bow but will with a Thrown Weapon.(I play on a Swtich so. . .)

[Pax]

Originally posted by Graeystone:

I have two of them for dual wielding. One has a bit larger damage than the other. For some real brutality a Dragon Slayer(Runemaster/Hunter). Maxed Volley, Scatter Shot(choosing Marksmanship instead of Rune Weapon), Runeword Explode/Burn. It turns into carnage on the battlefield. Thunder Strike/Unleash is the skill attack. Quite a few projectiles when it's used. Study Prey/Flush for debuffing. Wood Lore may turn the machine gun into a potential gatling.

The only skill I'm not sure about is Gouge. I don't know if it'll work with Thrown Weapons or just Bows and Spears like the description says.

The craziest thing(at least to me) is that I have an accessory I keep in the shared stash that gives Blade Honing. . .and it will work with a Small Torch! Crazy Blade Honing won't work with a Bow but will with a Thrown Weapon.(I play on a Swtich so. . .)

Wow! That's amazing! I haven't tried any of that. You can dual-wield without having Warfare? I have something with Blade Honing, I'll have to hunt it down. I'm still regretting selling one of my Small Torches way back when, just have one now that I pass between characters to test builds.

Think the reason I never noticed the DPS increases was because I've always played mage staff-users almost exclusively. This time around, using the Runes/Hunting and thrown weapons is an all-new TQ for me. Have a Runes/Earth that's working great, too, maybe better than Runes/Hunting, too soon to tell. Hardest is proving to be Runes/Nature. Haven't tried combos of other skills with Runes yet, but Runes is my new must-have.

Glad to talk to someone who's discovered the magic of that Small Torch. Kindred soul. LOL

[Gorilianul]

So...Small Torch huh, no sir I don't think I have any use for Small Torch.
I'll tell you what though Do you have any Gills of the Tiamat? (I think it's best throwing weapon)
https://tq-db.net/en/equipment/gills-of-tiamat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAEmuRcUl8

[Lobo de hielo]

Depends on the build!

If playing Hunter/ Rogue type with a lot of piercing do not overlook the Skeletal Dart (one with good affixes), it may look like a poor base damage, but 50% pierce damage is damn great for that type of build.
Small torch is okay for elemental types, Rune etc but remember to up your base fire damage somehow.
Early on I prefer (towards end of act 3) piau's easy to buy and any with "relentless or of haste". You can get great green ones with a lot of affixes.
Gills of Tiamat amazing for Rogue/ poison builds.
Need some cdr, try duel wielding 2 x Neiths Will which can carry from 14% to 18% cdr. Great for types like Rune builds and Thunderstrike, add a 20% cdr amulet. Well!!!!

All comes down to build type. Lots of others which may suit you build better.

[Pax]

Have a Lvl 60 character on Epic who has both Small Torch and Neith's Will equipped. Small Torch works better on some monsters like Terra Cotta Soldiers, Neith's Will on others like Tigermen. Both seem great on Dragons, though think Small Torch wins with them because of its speed. Use a lot of "% Slowed" wherever I can add it, jewelry/armor, and have Health Regen pumped way up. Working good so far.

Think I'll carry my Lvl 60 through to Legendary, never had a Legendary, just wasn't interested in the grind of rerunning the same old stuff, killing the same old monsters that have just been pumped to meaner. Seemed pointless to me. Until recently, I've had her in Chang'an building skills, farming Bandari, the sorcerer controlling the Terra Cotta Soldiers. Mainly, she's been parked due to her difficulty with Tigermen, her powerful staff just wasn't enough (in all the time I've played, never got the hang of spells). Neith's Will fixed the Tigerman problem.

[Graeystone]

Originally posted by Pax:

Wow! That's amazing! I haven't tried any of that. You can dual-wield without having Warfare? I have something with Blade Honing, I'll have to hunt it down. I'm still regretting selling one of my Small Torches way back when, just have one now that I pass between characters to test builds.

Think the reason I never noticed the DPS increases was because I've always played mage staff-users almost exclusively. This time around, using the Runes/Hunting and thrown weapons is an all-new TQ for me. Have a Runes/Earth that's working great, too, maybe better than Runes/Hunting, too soon to tell. Hardest is proving to be Runes/Nature. Haven't tried combos of other skills with Runes yet, but Runes is my new must-have.

Glad to talk to someone who's discovered the magic of that Small Torch. Kindred soul. LOL

There's a Rune Mastery Skill called Reckless Offense unlocked at Skill Level 24. Cuts down almost everything with ease with torches.

I'm experimenting with a Torch Thunderer(Rune/Storm Mastery) One downside to a Thunderer Little Torch - going to have to sacrifice some of skill points(for Rune Word: Feather for lowering strength requirements and attribute points(Strength) meet the Small Torch requirements because Storm Mastery doesn't give any Strength Bonuses.

I put three skill points in Feather and did the rest with attribute points to get the bare minimum for Small Torch. The other problem is physical defense. Since the main attribute is Intelligence it means the stronger physical based armor can't be used. Overall my only problem were those damn magic using Dragonettes and that Fire Shield they use which reflects fire damage back. . .nothing more than running around waiting for that shield to go away while dodging magic attacks. . .

The main goal for Thunderer Torch - to get Fire/Cold/Lightning attacks via Small Torch and Skills. The Skill is Storm Nimbus and its Passives. Like I hinted before this build is more about magic offensive power than being tank. I put points into Wisp Pet. It makes for a good distraction/meat shield.

This may not be a good build for newbies because of the early skill/attribute juggling with strength and the squishy nature of the character.

Here's what the build could look like - https://www.tqcalc.com/TitanCalc464c464crunee80e.html?mastery=Thunderer&master1=8&master2=10&sa=30&m1=40-0-10-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-12-0-16-12-0-8-8-8-0-0-0&m2=40-10-4-10-15-0-10-0-0-10-10-0-10-10-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-0-0-0-0

TQ is one of the very few ARPGs where DPS does matter for real. A lot of players say that while a mace or bow have the power they doesn't have the DPS of a fast weapon like a sword or thrown weapon because former are 'slow weapons'. IMO, TQ is very unfriendly toward magic users. Too many skills have high recharge times and there's no variation with weapons like other melee and ranged class weapons. There's no passive in the magic masteries that improves a staff's speed(could be wrong) unlike what's in hunter(spear/bows) and warfare(sword/axe/mace)

[Pax]

Originally posted by Graeystone:

There's a Rune Mastery Skill called Reckless Offense unlocked at Skill Level 24. Cuts down almost everything with ease with torches.

I'm experimenting with a Torch Thunderer(Rune/Storm Mastery) One downside to a Thunderer Little Torch - going to have to sacrifice some of skill points(for Rune Word: Feather for lowering strength requirements and attribute points(Strength) meet the Small Torch requirements because Storm Mastery doesn't give any Strength Bonuses.

I put three skill points in Feather and did the rest with attribute points to get the bare minimum for Small Torch. The other problem is physical defense. Since the main attribute is Intelligence it means the stronger physical based armor can't be used. Overall my only problem were those damn magic using Dragonettes and that Fire Shield they use which reflects fire damage back. . .nothing more than running around waiting for that shield to go away while dodging magic attacks. . .

The main goal for Thunderer Torch - to get Fire/Cold/Lightning attacks via Small Torch and Skills. The Skill is Storm Nimbus and its Passives. Like I hinted before this build is more about magic offensive power than being tank. I put points into Wisp Pet. It makes for a good distraction/meat shield.

This may not be a good build for newbies because of the early skill/attribute juggling with strength and the squishy nature of the character.

Here's what the build could look like - https://www.tqcalc.com/TitanCalc464c464crunee80e.html?mastery=Thunderer&master1=8&master2=10&sa=30&m1=40-0-10-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-12-12-0-16-12-0-8-8-8-0-0-0&m2=40-10-4-10-15-0-10-0-0-10-10-0-10-10-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-0-0-0-0

TQ is one of the very few ARPGs where DPS does matter for real. A lot of players say that while a mace or bow have the power they doesn't have the DPS of a fast weapon like a sword or thrown weapon because former are 'slow weapons'. IMO, TQ is very unfriendly toward magic users. Too many skills have high recharge times and there's no variation with weapons like other melee and ranged class weapons. There's no passive in the magic masteries that improves a staff's speed(could be wrong) unlike what's in hunter(spear/bows) and warfare(sword/axe/mace)

That's all very interesting and informative, thank you! Never knew about DPS until recently, because the main characters I played previously were all staff-users, no DPS. I realize now the one staff-user who made it through Typhon with only 2 deaths was a miracle, and she started into Ragnarok with only 4. None of her deaths were where you'd expect them. She's an Earth/Nature build, so go figure. Same build as on the character I just parked that failed miserably. LOL She's through Ragnarok and into Epic now, so we'll see how she fairs, still scrounging for resists (I truly hate that resists penalty).

Right, Attack Speed must be gotten from items, always on the lookout even now that I've decided to switch to Runes with Thrown. Still a big deal to me, coupled with as much Slow Attack/Movement as I can add. Really into Health Regen, too, but it's not nearly as useful on the higher level characters against monsters that do really heavy damage in one hit. Of course, the Slow usually has no effect on most bosses, but it's great against mobs.

[Graeystone]

One possible mage staff substitute that I read about is Ice Shard(Storm). At max skill it's 40 energy a shot but if it's a pure mage then a character should technically have energy to spare. The upside there's no recharge time and at skill level 1 it's stronger than most weapons at the start of a new game.

[Pax]

Originally posted by Graeystone:

One possible mage staff substitute that I read about is Ice Shard(Storm). At max skill it's 40 energy a shot but if it's a pure mage then a character should technically have energy to spare. The upside there's no recharge time and at skill level 1 it's stronger than most weapons at the start of a new game.

Oh, really?! That sounds promising! I have a newbie that's Storm/Earth, but haven't really played her. Maybe I should make a Storm/Runes. Never really played Storm, Spirit, Rogue or Dream... got to face it, think I'm in a rut.

[CygGame]

Originally posted by Pax:

Originally posted by Graeystone:

One possible mage staff substitute that I read about is Ice Shard(Storm). At max skill it's 40 energy a shot but if it's a pure mage then a character should technically have energy to spare. The upside there's no recharge time and at skill level 1 it's stronger than most weapons at the start of a new game.

Oh, really?! That sounds promising! I have a newbie that's Storm/Earth, but haven't really played her. Maybe I should make a Storm/Runes. Never really played Storm, Spirit, Rogue or Dream... got to face it, think I'm in a rut.

Dream and storm, with psionic touch skill using a lighting stave coupled with high attack speed is amazing. synergizes really well with the lighting skills from storm and dream. Level 43 right now and looking very promising.

[CygGame]

Originally posted by Graeystone:

One possible mage staff substitute that I read about is Ice Shard(Storm). At max skill it's 40 energy a shot but if it's a pure mage then a character should technically have energy to spare. The upside there's no recharge time and at skill level 1 it's stronger than most weapons at the start of a new game.

I have a level 74 ice sharder with runes and it's just squishy, stand and spam is how they are effective. Low HP and defense and low dps is not a good combo. Its been a chore to play, however I don't think I built that character correctly trying to do too much at once I think.

[Pax]

Originally posted by eqthedr:

Dream and storm, with psionic touch skill using a lighting stave coupled with high attack speed is amazing. synergizes really well with the lighting skills from storm and dream. Level 43 right now and looking very promising.

Nice to know! Always steered clear of Lightning staves because their output reads as being so erratic, big swing between least and most, a lot worse than Cold, but Fire is what it states, why I've always preferred it. Dumb move when you're about to face a Fire god. LOL Chose Cold, never even considered Lightning. There's so much yet for me to learn about TQ.

[Pax]

Originally posted by eqthedr:

Originally posted by Graeystone:

One possible mage staff substitute that I read about is Ice Shard(Storm). At max skill it's 40 energy a shot but if it's a pure mage then a character should technically have energy to spare. The upside there's no recharge time and at skill level 1 it's stronger than most weapons at the start of a new game.

I have a level 74 ice sharder with runes and it's just squishy, stand and spam is how they are effective. Low HP and defense and low dps is not a good combo. Its been a chore to play, however I don't think I built that character correctly trying to do too much at once I think.

Think that's the problem with my now-parked character, I was going for a Battlemage like I loved to play on UO, but missed completely with TQ. But I've just discovered Thrown weapons work for pure mages, so there's hope, but not for her, she fails even then.