Ideal Spear Build?

[damian]

So I have a conundrum... I keep wanting to make a Goddess Athena spear character... but I am not sure what the ideal combination would be for that.

Seems like some combination of HUNTING - DEFENSE - DREAM - ROGUE are the main choices.

Warden seem to be the most obvious choice. Thing is I have a problem with hunting mastery: I actually hate study prey and call of the hunt. The idea of high cost buffs which only last a few seconds pisses me off. I absolutely hated constantly refreshing plague on soothsayer and I am loathe to repeat that annoying playstyle.

But the amount of pierce damage and damage reduction hunting mastery gives, along with the passives... its pretty hard to ignore.

Haruspex I dunno... I feel like Defense offers more than Dream but I could be wrong.

So Templar seems like it could be pretty thematically "Athenian" and there is nothing STOPPING it from using a spear. I don't see it doing as much damage per thrust, but with shield charge, batter, and phantom strike it will have better AOE than any of the hunters. I imagine Templar is even tankier than warden or at least tied with it.

Then as weird options that nobody talks about much: Corsair or Dreamkiller

I don't think I have ever seen a build or any theory on either of these which leads me to believe they just don't measure up. But I also know rogue enjoyed years of being though of as useless...

[Lobo de hielo]

From all the calculations I have ever seen or read (in-game mechanic guides, engine calculations etc over the years) you are better going 1:1 upto 3:2 in Str/Dex.

For Slayer I would use a throw weapon in my offhand.
What I actually came back to say was, why bow and not throw weapon?
Throw weapons can use Onslaught, they are faster than bows, you can get pure physical throw weapons or ones with some great pierce damage. Once into Ragnarok or start of Epic a lot of the Epic and Legendaries that drop carry some really nice affixes including 15% CDR.

[karakat]

Since the final damage of each type of damae is a multiplier product, and the final damage of several types of damage is the sum, it is always more beneficial to scale one damage type.
As example:
6*4>3*2+3*2 even 6*3>3*2+3*2

[karakat]

slayor3000 a écrit :

why bow and not throw weapon?

Firstly, a terrible speed cap for dw throwing weapons, and secondly, a slayer's dual wield gives you practically nothing, because you already have a 33% chance of a double attack, 30% will give you another 20%, but dual wield(warfare passive) can't proc volley, the best range proc in the game, so your dps may even decrease.
I don't see warfare as dw throwing mastery at all. Throw + shield looks much better here.

[Lobo de hielo]

karakat a écrit :

slayor3000 a écrit :

why bow and not throw weapon?

Firstly, a terrible speed cap for dw throwing weapons, and secondly, a slayer's dual wield gives you practically nothing, because you already have a 33% chance of a double attack, 30% will give you another 20%, but dual wield(warfare passive) can't proc volley, the best range proc in the game, so your dps may even decrease.
I don't see warfare as dw throwing mastery at all. Throw + shield looks much better here.

Firstly I suggested Onslaught not Dual Wield, since Dual Wield passives do not work with thrown weapons that would be idiotic to suggest.
Secondly a Slayer with a Bow would never get close to the speed a thrown weapon can do even though it is capped.
Thirdly: https://gameplay.tips/guides/9698-titan-quest-anniversary-edition.html
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=148217054

The second one is older but does have a nice touch to it which is "Actually, there is a point, at which one point of str gives more pierce damage than one point of dex.".

[karakat]

I have a bow slayer with speedcap, no problems due to onslaught, wood lore and CotH.
I don't understand your Firstly and Thirdly.
Actauly ther is a point, at that moment when dex is 1600 more than strength. Good luck collecting these numbers.

[damian]

This is really cool though, I am learning a lot.

I love that the game has so many options that you can theory craft to this level with builds, and I havn't even GOTTEN to optimizing gear which seems to be where people really go nuts with fun build ideas.

[Lobo de hielo]

karakat a écrit :

I have a bow slayer with speedcap, no problems due to onslaught, wood lore and CotH.
I don't understand your Firstly and Thirdly.
Actauly ther is a point, at that moment when dex is 1600 more than strength. Good luck collecting these numbers.

Your post prior suggested someone had advisedDual Wielding.
Those are game mechanics showing calculations etc for str/ dex etc.

damian a écrit :

This is really cool though, I am learning a lot.

I love that the game has so many options that you can theory craft to this level with builds, and I havn't even GOTTEN to optimizing gear which seems to be where people really go nuts with fun build ideas.

Optimising gear depends on which build you choose.I would say for something like slayer you need to aim at 600+ in strength for legendary, throw the rest towards dex and hold on to some att points. If starting to be critted too often then more dex is needed.

[karakat]

Dual wield works with throwing weapons, so I assumed that this is what you are suggesting, as most people think of a warfare thrower that way. My mistake.

[Lobo de hielo]

karakat a écrit :

Dual wield works with throwing weapons, so I assumed that this is what you are suggesting, as most people think of a warfare thrower that way. My mistake.

Yes Dual Wield works but its synergies do not.
The only decent build to Dual Wield throw weapons is Rune and them builds are great fun.

[ninakoru]

damian a écrit :

Has anyone tried a 1:1 ratio of evenly raising STR/DEX so you get the benefits of everything slayer has to offer?

Yeah, in fact is the common way to go with spears.

The thing is that spears have a big physical damage (as slow weapon have a big weapon base damage) component, and a big pierce damage (25% base).

You want to rise both, phys wants nice scaling because of armor, all damage that goes past enemy armor, and very lightly mitigated due to rare phys resistances, you want pierce scaling because as how pierce ratio works, phys damage is calculated first then goes all the pierce damage scaling.

Raising both will still rise the pierce ratio formula of dex/str (at a lower rate compared to dex focus, but still...).

[Elriadon]

damian a écrit :

I mean I know that IDEALLY you are just supposed to be using a fast sword with conqueror, but it seems like the pros of warfare tree are still valid for any melee even if you aren't using the optimal weapon.

I'm pretty sure that an axe/mace is better for Conqueror than a sword.

[damian]

Darel a écrit :

damian a écrit :

I mean I know that IDEALLY you are just supposed to be using a fast sword with conqueror, but it seems like the pros of warfare tree are still valid for any melee even if you aren't using the optimal weapon.

I'm pretty sure that an axe/mace is better for Conqueror than a sword.

Is it? I read that the stun factor is a pretty small % is less useful than faster weapon speed.

But I am sure axes and maces are still better than spears for Conq :p

[karakat]

Main factor here is attack speed cap, if you can reach it with mace without big costs mace will be better then sword.

[Lobo de hielo]

damian a écrit :

Darel a écrit :

I'm pretty sure that an axe/mace is better for Conqueror than a sword.

Is it? I read that the stun factor is a pretty small % is less useful than faster weapon speed.

But I am sure axes and maces are still better than spears for Conq :p

I would say for normal a fast sword for Conqueror (not my type of build, but...), when you get into Epic/ Legendary you would look for Green Mi's (Greens can be shop bought) that have Veterans and Reckless power affixes, that actually gives an extra 22% speed and there is a relic that can come with an affix of 35% attack speed.
With a little extra work/ luck you can get close to capping the speed on axes/ maces/ spears and with the amount of base physical damage these weapons do they beat swords for damage output for a strength build.

[sarcastic_godot]

I want to toss in another point that should be considered: For any melee char, it's necessary to have some source of OA, or your swings/stabs simply miss the late-/endgame baddies.

Point for Warfare (Onslaught...), Dream (Premonition) and - not yet mentioned - Earth (Flame surge halves enemy DA, which does the trick nicely, too).

You can get quite some OA from gear, ofc, and there are several spears with +OA. But relying on that while keeping your resistances in the green etc. can become somewhat tricky...