Whats a good level to start investing into a second mastery ?

[Nocturnal]

See topic.

[the Fimosis is discosis]

depends on your choices. Like: you're planning to use Hunt as a second mastery then there is a great trait in Tier 1 if you're using spears/bows and a nice 1 point wonder in Herbal remedy at Tier 2; in Storm on the other hand there's not too much gained until Squall (Tier 3) which already is a heavy invest in the mastery itself. My average experience is though: concentrate on one mastery as long as possible, unless there's a good reason to branch out. Good reasons: Heart of Oak -> 5 Points for 10% total speed (Nature); Hunting if you match the criteria mentioned above; Spirit for either Ternion Attack (Staff Users) or Deathchill Aura + Mod for melees

[Atomic Kid]

like said above it really depends on what your endgame class will be...most people max out both masteries at 32 pts each at about 40 but sometimes earlier...

good times to unlock early are things like rouge for calcuated strike, warfare for onslaught and weapon training, hunting for woodlore, dream for phantom strike, defense for armor handling

many masteries are front loaded in which most of their good skills come really early on or give the needed stat boost to make going up in levels more convienent...esp if you are picking a str mastery like warfare and comboing it with say dream which gives energy which can make it easier to not run outta energy...

however due to how titan quest works where the main skill is usually lower on the stat points req and other skills higher up are addons to that skill making it better, sometimes you can just add 1 pt to your 2nd mastery pretty early and make the early game much easier just from the lv1 skil from the 2nd tree...however sometimes its better to just finish your main mastery then unlock your 2nd though you do not want to hold off on mastery points for too long as you need the str/int/dex and hp/energy that even if you dont add anything to those skills the stat gains will still be useful..

good classes to finish are defense (collousus form and pulverize are amazing), hunting (volley and scattershot and highest dex growth), dream (trance of wrath wrecks normal mode)...if you are playing a mage you prob will finish it to get the max int and the end spells though storm and earth gets most of its good stuff pre 32 mastery pts though couple 32 mastery pts skills there is really good..runemaster you must max cause transmution finishes up the rune weapon tree which is core to that tree and aftershock is a massive improviement to seal of fate learned at 32 mastery..

[SilentMeteor]

For new players, I recommand choose your second mastery after you finish Normal, or at least finish Act 4. One of the worst decisions you can make in this game is leveling both mastery to 32 points in Normal. I understand that it’s alluring to max other mastery and try out new skills, but if you want a smoother start, try to resist such temptation.
One exception is if your second mastery is Nature. You can put 4 points (but no more) into it and max Heart of Oak early.

[Nocturnal]

Ok thanks people, I don't have much knowlege of the other skill trees so I will take it as it comes, unless as said I see something which looks good in an early tree.

With masterys in general is it generally better to do 1-2 points of mastery per level up and use the other for skill points ?

[HellSlayer]

If you found a build on youtube and like the skill, then pick as early as you want. Because who knows, maybe you will get bored of game in 10 hours and you will never reach level 50+...

[the Fimosis is discosis]

Originally posted by Nocturnal:

Ok thanks people, I don't have much knowlege of the other skill trees so I will take it as it comes, unless as said I see something which looks good in an early tree.

With masterys in general is it generally better to do 1-2 points of mastery per level up and use the other for skill points ?

Which mastery did you pick as 1st choice?
generally speaking, yes its a good idea to spend a lot of points into mastery early. Especially since youre not that familiar with the game you might wanna keep some stat points (str, dex, life etc) in the background, thus the stat points gained from mastery will help you wearing the newest gear suiting your class. Also there are some really strong choices in most masteries that will singlehandedly pull you thru most of normal and dont require too much of an invest

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by the Fimosis is discosis:

[
Which mastery did you pick as 1st choice?
generally speaking, yes its a good idea to spend a lot of points into mastery early. Especially since youre not that familiar with the game you might wanna keep some stat points (str, dex, life etc) in the background, thus the stat points gained from mastery will help you wearing the newest gear suiting your class. Also there are some really strong choices in most masteries that will singlehandedly pull you thru most of normal and dont require too much of an invest

I went warrior and am planning to pick up the defense one. I just read somewhere that to not increase health on the first play and something like a 3:2 strength to dex increase is best.

I found an item that grants skill honing blade, does that still apply if its not a skill on your tree ?

[Atomic Kid]

if you are playing conquerer then you really want add both to 32 mastery as conquere benefits from the stat gains and both defense and warfare gives massive hp growth to the point where you dont have to add to hp..if you only stick to warfare until epic you might die a lot more due to lower hp and having str issues potentially locking you outta gear...

gear not in your tree is very good, just pick it in the skill list that says item and you can use it (make sure to remove it if you take the gear off)...

and ya usually conquerer goes 3:2 in favor of str or 2:1 str...you need a lot of str to wear your gear and str improves your dps a lot esp late game when 1 pt of str can add potentially 10-20 dps per 4 str...i'd not add to hp unless you are going for a no death run, cause dying in tq isnt really a big deal unless you are going for hardcore achievements and more dps ends fights better...

defense best things come really late, collusus form, pulverize, disable, and shield smash, and shield charge and its add on...the lower tier defense stuff is still good though but you'll prob want to max defense out to give you a massive hp boost and str boost...

warfare is frontloaded and most of its good things come early which is why i think most ppl will recondmend picking that before defense...onslaught learned at lv2, weapon training, battle standard at lv6, war horn for a panic button, battle rage for crits...and the rest of the moveset is add ons to those moves...so ya most of your points early on will be in warfare but warfare would love the hp boost,dex and str boost of adding to defense after you got warfare core skills.

[SilentMeteor]

and both defense and warfare gives massive hp growth to the point where you dont have to add to hp
You never have to add hp. In fact you should not do that except you are a petmancer and your stats are only used for gear requirement.

if you only stick to warfare until epic you might die a lot more due to lower hp and having str issues potentially locking you outta gear...
I never had problem in gear requirement as pure physical combination such as Warfare+Defense. Go 32 points early will end up less points in useful skills and you will end up die even more times than you expected.


defense best things come really late, collusus form, pulverize, disable, and shield smash, and shield charge and its add on...the lower tier defense stuff is still good though but you'll prob want to max defense out to give you a massive hp boost and str boost...
That is exactly where the problem is. You need to invest very heavy in Defense to get these skills, which end up not enough points in the first place.


warfare is frontloaded and most of its good things come early which is why i think most ppl will recondmend picking that before defense...onslaught learned at lv2, weapon training, battle standard at lv6, war horn for a panic button, battle rage for crits...and the rest of the moveset is add ons to those moves...so ya most of your points early on will be in warfare but warfare would love the hp boost,dex and str boost of adding to defense after you got warfare core skills.
It is acceptable to go Warfare 10, and Defense 32 (although it is still worse than Warfare 32). However that is not in accordance with you statement above to go BOTH 32 points.

[Pannathrax]

depending on the play style, for me i prefer the +skill items for early game, and fully max 32 both masteries as soon as possible and drop 1 point in each skills, the effect of the skill after adding the items would be helpful. then i would focus on main skill, and the stats gain is beneficial. but not all characters can do this, some would focus on 1 first and obtain the most needed skill and max them for usage and change later accordingly.

[Atomic Kid]

ya i mean eventually all chars get 32 in both masteries as the stat points esp hp is very important esp if you are purposely not adding to hp...normal mode isnt that hard so that would be the best time to level masteries to make later on where you can start capping vital skills...

and yes i do go 10 warfare/ 32 defense then finish warfare...as early game the mc wants dps so starting as warfare at least gives you onslaught, battle standard, battle rage, war horn...and then lv10 unlocking defense and immeadially geting armor handling which helps a lot early game and helps late game cause armor protection makes armor rating more effective...

and you can start adding to the dual wield stuff in defense, shild bash, disable, and pulverize which is always good to have while gaining insane hp bonuss..and if you are doing the 2 points into mastery and 1 skill and do the unlock defense at lv10 after getting most core skills in warfare you'll cap out defense mid act2-late act2 and get collosus form which is one of the best boss slayers conquerer has..

as long as you have 10 pts in warfare you can still use that 1 skill point per level to add points to onslaught, battle standard, and many other things that fix your dps ratings while working on defense mastery which imo has all its good skills at the top of the tree...most of the lower stuff is good but usually you dont add much to aderline tree until later on and rally isnt good for all builds but amazing on others, petmasters usually love rally for the reflect damage and aoe healing for pets...most chars leave rally at 0 and aderline tree at 1 each while working on more important skills like the stuff in onslaught and the dual wield stuff in defense

after defense mastery is capped and you gained massive hp and got the dual wield of defense at least started, you can finish up warfare mastery at about late act3-early act4 usaully lv34...and then everything else after that can be going into capping skills...most of them will be at 1 pt for a long time though while working on masteries..

[kekkuli]

Originally posted by SilentMeteor:

One of the worst decisions you can make in this game is leveling both mastery to 32 points in Normal.

This is actually the worst piece of advice i've ever read on these boards. It's absolutely viable and even recommended to max both masteries on normal. I usually have both maxed by lvl 35-40 or so. You could do it even earlier tbh. It makes last acts much easier as you gain lots more hp. Damage is not really a problem on normal either way so just get some key skills and pump those masteries. Remember that attributes also up your damage.

Btw it's funny, he says "One exception is if your second mastery is Nature. You can put 4 points (but no more) into it and max Heart of Oak early." but that has pretty much same effect than mastery points, more hp.

Btw Atomic Kid, what do you mean by dual wield "stuff" in defence mastery? There is none. You mean shield procs i presume?

[Atomic Kid]

ya shield proc where you hit with shield and weapon...so thats basically a dual wielded hit using the shield damage number which can be higher then even clubs (it uses your atk speed) it pretty much is a dual wielded hit with one being the shield hit and the other the weapon hit and the animation is about the same duration as hitting once so you are more then doubling your dps..

nature takes a while to become good due to the good skills being higher up in the skill tree but the lower tier stuff are amazing 1 pointers for most of the game...heart of the oak even with 1 pt is +10% total speed which is 10% move,cast,atk speed really useful...and lv8 plague with lv1 in both add on is a really good debuff...though i notice ppl maxing plague completely cause it lowers enemy stats so much that the mp cost of it is worth it...

regrowth at lv20 heals for 3k hp and with plenty cooldown reductions you can reduce it below 1 sec coodlown so you can save yourself late game with regrowth spamming on yourself along with potions, most other chars only have potions and life steal to stay alive...

the biggest draw at max 32 nature is refresh which is one of a kind which gives nearly your entire moveset back if refresh is leveled also refresh is effected by cooldown reductions so if you have plenty you can spam it even more and get to use skills much more often and do insane things other class combos without cannot...

though if they want to balance nature, id think refresh shouldnt be effected by cooldown reductions as its really fair if you have no cooldown reductions allowing you to unload all your high dps moves like lethal strike, phantom stirke,etc, and then refresh to get them off cooldown and do it again doing so much damage that the enemy will just not be able to stand up to it...and even things from warfare and defense benefit from refresh things like shield charge, war horn, war wind...doing those 2x in a row is so broken and seeing how cooldown reduction makes refresh go down in time needed to get it back and every other move too..well you get a recipe for broken op move..

[kekkuli]

Well i think conqueror is even more op. Can literally kill hardest bosses in the game on legendary in yellows. Nothing can beat the combo of colossus+battle standard imo. Not to say that the class performs very well without those buffs too.

[Atomic Kid]

ya collusus form +battle standard is one of the best boss slayer combos, your resistances and hp go though the roof so you wont die...and your dps skyrockets with both up...conquerer reaches really high dps once you reach the endgame only to be beaten by pierce toons or pierce toons with refresh like ranger..

though ranger with a spear and high levels needs amazing gear to outdps a sim leveled engame conquerer but usually i notice ranger and brigid spear user will outdamge a conqueror but not tank aswell