Are there really 770 cards? [Now 887!]

[Miraglyth]

So I've scoured all the discussion threads and longer Youtube series for the game, and it seems people all get stuck around the 620-640 mark.

Official word is that there are 770 and that many are found in duels.

I can only assume that means when two different characters share a line of dialog in combat, it is actually two different cards, so for instance, these...

• [The Prince] saying "Your mother would be proud of your knitting skills."
  
• [The General] saying "Your mother would be proud of your knitting skills."
  
• [The Lady] saying "Your mother would be proud of your knitting skills."

...would count as three different cards. This would explain some of the gap as many of the unseen cards would be those duplicates for the exceptionally rare fights (The Prince and The Barbarian. I saw it suggested once you can fight The Nobleman too?)

But it certainly wouldn't explain all of them. That I can tell, each character has 12-14 duel cards so that wouldn't make up a gap of nearly 150.

Edit: The worrying thought occurs to me that dual cards might not just be linked to character but also encounter. For instance you can start duelling The Lady by choosing either option in the garden scene, and perhaps each option there counts for a separate set of cards.

Otherwise I struggle to believe the game can count that many cards. For all the reports of people having 620-640 cards, there hasn't been a single report of anyone owning between 650 and 750. A few people with the achievement sure, but if they really had gone through all the trouble I can't believe they wouldn't have spoken about their ordeal.

Edit: Okay there is some strange behaviour... I finally got to fight The Barbarian for the first time ever and though I saw one new combat line ("Tonight I will dine in Valhalla..."), but the count did not increase until I let myself die when it raised by 1.

So either the new combat line or the new death did not add to my count. Which means either duel cards or deaths are not included in the 770 (and the official word is that the former do) or the game is failing to count things that it should meaning getting all the cards is effectively impossible.

[Miraglyth]

So I started a completely fresh save, and it seems that both duel turns and deaths do count as a card each. Different deaths sharing the same card image also count as different cards.

So I don't understand why I didn't get any new cards from the first time I ever fought The Barbarian (besides the death), unless another character also says that "dine in Valhalla" line? I've yet to confirm if two characters saying the same line counts for two cards. If so, then for some reason the game didn't give me an increase that it should have (i.e. a bug).

One thing I have confirmed is that the messages on the "backs" of cards does NOT count for a card. In other words the messages on a light brown background you see when the Spirit of the Fallen leaves, or when you give The Witch the wrong answer for the Zgando question. Similarly when you first get Diabolus, that doesn't count for a card either.

This wasn't originally a PC game, right? If it was made for phones first, might there be any cards (or even whole card sets) that were removed? The main example I can think of is if there are any for rating the game on an app store. If they existed and were removed, is it possible the count wasn't decreased to accommodate for that?

[Locke]

I did come across one for rating the game on the app store while playing on my phone last night. I was half asleep and didn't think it was a big deal, so I don't remember the specifics. I still thought you might want to know though.

[Miraglyth]

Oh cool, that's an interesting question then. I wonder if they've been accounted for in the Steam version.

I must say too, thanks for reading all that text to have seen it mentioned! Looking at it again today it does seem a little much but we've got a lot of unknowns at the moment.

[Miraglyth]

Found a breakthrough with repeated new saves:

Some duel cards add to the count, and others do not.

From the training fight with The General alone, I noted the following:

Cards that add to the total:

1. All is fair in love and war.
   
2. I'm going to attack you.
   
3. This one will be difficult to parry, be careful.
   
4. Where did you learn that move? The hospital?

Cards that do not:

1. [name] stares intently at you...
   
2. Did you try selling these impressive brushing skills of yours?
   
3. Mind the pointy bit of your sword... I don't want you to cut yourself before I can skewer you.
   
4. Now I'm going to defend.
   
5. You feel [name] is plotting something...
   
6. You will dance in hell.
   
7. You look like a reckless worm trying to fight an eagle.
   
8. Your breath is a better weapon than that toothpick of yours.
   
9. Your mother would be proud of your knitting skills.
   
10. You're moving so sloooowwwlly. This is never going to end.

I also noted an inconsistency with the victory/defeat cards:

• You won my Lord, beginner's luck! Do you want to know how to improve?
  
• You will do better next time. Do you want to know how to improve?

In some saves both of these added to the total, and in others only one of them would. I couldn't see a pattern to it, but it probably means that some people's saves have one card fewer than they should for this as well.

This is just one fight and 10-11 cards are not being included in the count. If when other characters use the same lines it is meant to count as separate cards, and if this issue is not limited to just The General (which is likely given I have seen unique lines in The Barbarian's duel not count), that's over 60 cards that should be counted but aren't.

Obviously this is not intended, and we can surely conclude that it is impossible to reach 750+ presently.

[Miraglyth]

It's been brought up in another topic that the 38th character yet to be added probably also brings cards that aren't available yet. If they were also added two months ago then naturally we won't be able to get those either.

The official mention of there being 770 cards came around the same time as the 38th character, so it's possible there were less previously and that the difference is not in the game yet.

[Kitty]

Originally posted by Miraglyth:

The official mention of there being 770 cards came around the same time as the 38th character, so it's possible there were less previously and that the difference is not in the game yet.

This has always been my thought. Still waiting on an official release date, the most dev has said about it was an estimated 1-2 months of remaining development, back in January, so supposedly any day now, if the projection was accurate.

[Miraglyth]

While testing a few things to update my deaths guide just now, it occurred to me that the issue with some cards not counting might be language-specific.

So I tried playing the game in French, and can report that the same issue occurs. Sparring with The General again:

Cards that add to the total:

1. Général [name] vous regarde intensément.
   
2. Je vais vous attaquer.
   
3. Maintenant je vais me défendre
   
4. Vous sentez Général [name] préparer quelque chose...

Cards that do not:

1. Attention au bout pointu de ton épée... Je ne voudrais pas que to te coupes, avant que je t'embroche.
   
2. Ce coup-là va être difficile à pare. Ça va faire mal.
   
3. Où as-tu appris ce movement ? À l'hôpital ?
   
4. Ta mère doit être fière de ce don pour le tricot.
   
5. Ton haleine est une meilleure arme que ce misérable cure-dent.
   
6. Tout est permis en amour et à la guerre.
   
7. Tu as essayé de vendre cette impressionnante technique de balayage aléatoire ?
   
8. Tu n'es qu'un ver de terre assez téméraire pour s'attaquer à un aigle.
   
9. Tu vas danser en enfer.
   
10. Vous vous déplacez trop lentement... On n'en finira jamais.

This time neither the victory or defeat cards added to the count.

That these lines all translate directly to match the English lines. This is a point of interest because three of the lines that work in French didn't work in English (and vice-versa).

So it might be that different cards work in different languages and that playing the game in multiple languages would allow them all to count. Alternatively it could be that the translations of the duel cards were re-ordered and it's just the same four cards counting in both languages.

[Miraglyth]

New post, another discovery that I feel merits it.

To continue testing I made a new save, and a different set of four cards in French added to the count, with the original four listed above not counting this time.

This leads me to believe that instead of some cards not counting ever, certain cards share internal IDs with other cards, so only the first of these to appear counts. If so then it probably wouldn't matter what language the game is set to unless they are assigned different IDs per language, which sounds like it would be tricky to manage (then again, the idea that they haven't been managed right may actually support this...)

Rather than digging deeper about that I'm interested to know if the same dual lines spoken by different characters does count as separate cards so that's where I'll look next.

[Ryuu]

It's only wise to give up on two last achievements for now until getting long-awaited update.

[Miraglyth]

One mystery is progressed with a little more history-reading than I had made before.

Originally posted by nerial:

You can get 99% of the 750+ cards...

This was posted in August, so we now know that there were 750+ cards (likely the 770 since quoted) before the placeholder 38th character, and there probably aren't any unobtainable cards associated with them in 1.25.

Originally posted by nerial:

Take the duel with the nobleman for example, one of the rarest event of the game : it is linked to 10 or so duel cards specifically for that duel.

This is two posts later and suggests that non-specific duel cards - when multiple characters share the same duel line - it counts as one card. That's what I wanted to confirm in my last post and haven't done yet.

As a reminder, we know that some unique duel cards (all of the ones I've seen used by The Barbarian) share internal IDs with other cards (probably other duel cards) and don't count when they should.

We don't know if that 770 count includes duplicate cards or not. It could be that the game actually has 800 cards with 30 duplicates, if so the existence of duplicates that don't count wouldn't stop us being able to get to 770.

I suspect however if nobody has got close to 700 yet that this is unlikely.

Separate to all that we don't know if the cards Locke found in the mobile version (about rating the app) are fully removed from the PC version, or if they are dummied out from being able to appear but are still part of the count.

[nerial]

The achievements to discover all the cards has been lowered, so that you don't really have to find all the cards to unlock it, as most probably you will never be able to unlock the whole 770 cards. Every variation of the duels (some duels are quite hidden, like the son or the nobleman), the dungeon or the kidnapping are counted as cards. That's why unlocking everything is relatively tough.

Note also that there are now around 900 cards in the game, following today's upgrade.

You're right, two cards are locked on steam for the mobile rating. They're not counted in the achievement.

[sadsadsadsa]

Originally posted by nerial:

The achievements to discover all the cards has been lowered, so that you don't really have to find all the cards to unlock it, as most probably you will never be able to unlock the whole 770 cards. Every variation of the duels (some duels are quite hidden, like the son or the nobleman), the dungeon or the kidnapping are counted as cards. That's why unlocking everything is relatively tough.

Note also that there are now around 900 cards in the game, following today's upgrade.

You're right, two cards are locked on steam for the mobile rating. They're not counted in the achievement.

What about 38th character? can it be done 100% now?

[PreGy]

Originally posted by nerial:

The achievements to discover all the cards has been lowered, so that you don't really have to find all the cards to unlock it, as most probably you will never be able to unlock the whole 770 cards. Every variation of the duels (some duels are quite hidden, like the son or the nobleman), the dungeon or the kidnapping are counted as cards. That's why unlocking everything is relatively tough.

Note also that there are now around 900 cards in the game, following today's upgrade.

You're right, two cards are locked on steam for the mobile rating. They're not counted in the achievement.

Thanks! It's so nice to see a dev taking into account achievements and the likelyhood of getting them, and adjust it so it doesn't make a bad impression on the player trying to complete a game.

Back to do another run and see the changes!

[nerial]

Thanks! It will still be a hell of a challenge to get the "all the cards achievement". But I'm ok with it I think. It's the most difficult to get. Today 0.3% of players found it, I don't want more than 0.5% I think.

Yes! the mysterious 38th character is now unlocked, as are the 3 new deaths!

[Will Hunter]

Okay thanks for the answer @Nerial ! :)
There is how many cards in the game now? (9??)