Sword skills take forever to learn

[Mosey]

Seriously, I have every attack from fist yet still have 25 sword skills to unlock. The gains for learning these weapon skills are way out of wack, and yes I am literally handing swords to NPC to farm these which is absurd as a concept.

Please up the per swing gains for these skills, it's silly as is.

[Smokeadelic]

well learn the attack pattern of ur npc of choice and evade / doge his swings with sword goes much faster the learning ...what hard is the sword attacks which npc's do with the "y" button ,but the normal ones are too cheesy...

just for the Salt ,got 70 hour ingame and i just need 4 bare hands and 5 sword skills to finish ....for all ....

[Mosey]

Did I imply somewhere that I was eating blows to the face? I am not. Most enemies don't have swords, genius, and those who do break them (and if an attack is second or third in the chain, you MUST eat the attack or you'll never see it at all hence their sword breakage). I am literally arming NPC to fight them which is, again, absurd.

Sorry for my tone, but it's tedious for no reason. Farming non-weapon skills was far less of a PITA.

[slcp_valkyrie]

Hi Mosey,

We're sorry to hear learning sword skills feels tedious and apologize for any frustration. That being said, we truly appreciate your feedback and will keep it in mind when working on future updates.

[obliviondoll]

Sword skill learning tends to go a lot smoother with players than with NPCs, in part because, unlike fists, swords keep breaking. Using Windfall can help with this tendency, because Windfall avoids get you out of the damage AND prevent the sword from losing durability when you nail them. But yeah, slightly faster learning would benefit the weapon style progress.

Essence Reserves tends to be a good place to learn sword moves, because there's a lot of swords laying around all over, and they have no cut damage so you don't have to worry as much as against other swords when you block the hit.

[Mosey]

I've done literally everything suggested and it's still maddeningly slow. And, again, windfall doesn't do anything that special since if a blow is 2nd or 3rd in rotation they'll need to hit my block 1 or 2 times since if I dodge they stop their rotation (which is one of the many problems although yes, vs. a player it would be 'better' I guess but that's not my point.) If it's an alternate attack you might as well walk away.

The essense area is good for the moves that those enemies use, but notably they DO NOT appear to have most attacks only a subset of them.

Farming from players is currently the only non-idiot way to get sword skills, which is dumb but true. How that's ok in a game with literally no chat is possibly the biggest design failure I've come across in my almost 175 hours playing.

It takes so much longer to learn sword skills that you would think they would be that much more powerful, yet they are not. The time to learn them is way out of sync with how 'good' they are in general and specifically. That's an issue for me.

Even SPECIFICALLY farming for them for a week, doing all of the above suggestions (sans other players) has not been enough to gain those abilities whereas a week of farming was more than enough for every last fist attack minus 'Slap' which is sold as being rare so I have no issue there.

[Mosey]

Origineel geplaatst door slcp_valkyrie:

Hi Mosey,

We're sorry to hear learning sword skills feels tedious and apologize for any frustration. That being said, we truly appreciate your feedback and will keep it in mind when working on future updates.

For what it's worth I don't expect an apology, I just felt like this needed to be said. I'm sure I'm not the first to bring it up, but the gains are exceedingly out of line for what it is given the breakability of weapons and amount of enemies who may have sword attacks to teach, but have no sword (or weapon) whatsoever.

Also, fun fact, some enemies apparently have no weapon attacks at all so if you give them a weapon (throw down a randomly aquired sword near them) they will sometimes pick up said sword and do nothing. It functionally makes them unable to attack, which is pretty amusing.

[Lordzio]

Man, I have just 126 hours and I got everything, you're not efficient enough :P

[Smokeadelic]

Origineel geplaatst door Lordzio:

Man, I have just 126 hours and I got everything, you're not efficient enough :P

so true
hitting my 80 hour in game and only missing "calbot" (rar npc) and "rising spin slash"(no npc's got this move only players ..) sword skill learning is fast enough for my point of view (did them with staggerstyle )
some players got the skill, some not

[Mosey]

There's pretty much zero skill involved in learning skills, no offense. I didn't start purposefully farming for them until around hour 100 or so because my focus was on farming out fist abilities which took perhaps 40 hours. The majority of my time has been figuring a rotation for fist, and after that was solved I figured why not get sword skills too.

It's cool if you think it's fine, but I suspect few people even bother with these skills at all. The mechanics aren't impossible, they're just bad. Frankly, just changing the gain rate isn't even an ideal fix. The main issue is how few NPC have a sword to teach, and the durability of those weapons is poor.

Question for those 'pro' gamers, did you farm them from a player? I suspect you did.

[DisTer]

Origineel geplaatst door Mosey:

It takes so much longer to learn sword skills that you would think they would be that much more powerful, yet they are not. The time to learn them is way out of sync with how 'good' they are in general and specifically. That's an issue for me.

Doesn't sounds like a great idea to relate the power to the time or difficulty it'd take to learn a skill (unless you're no-living in South Corea).

The point is we shouldn't have to farm moves for pvp at all, i really hope they'll remove this system when they'll add ranked.

[Mosey]

Origineel geplaatst door DisTer:

Origineel geplaatst door Mosey:

It takes so much longer to learn sword skills that you would think they would be that much more powerful, yet they are not. The time to learn them is way out of sync with how 'good' they are in general and specifically. That's an issue for me.

Doesn't sounds like a great idea to relate the power to the time or difficulty it'd take to learn a skill (unless you're no-living in South Corea).

The point is we shouldn't have to farm moves for pvp at all, i really hope they'll remove this system when they'll add ranked.

Oddly enough I do like the way you learn moves, I really do. I just dislike it when it comes to swords since, unlike fist moves, it's a mixed grab bag of RNG layered upon RNG to learn them.

It's not just 'does this NPC know this move' it's 'does this NPC know this move, does this NPC have a weapon for me to even KNOW they have the move, and will the durability of that weapon last long enough to support the moves placement in their cycle'.

That's a big difference.

[obliviondoll]

Origineel geplaatst door Mosey:

Origineel geplaatst door DisTer:

Doesn't sounds like a great idea to relate the power to the time or difficulty it'd take to learn a skill (unless you're no-living in South Corea).

The point is we shouldn't have to farm moves for pvp at all, i really hope they'll remove this system when they'll add ranked.

Oddly enough I do like the way you learn moves, I really do. I just dislike it when it comes to swords since, unlike fist moves, it's a mixed grab bag of RNG layered upon RNG to learn them.

It's not just 'does this NPC know this move' it's 'does this NPC know this move, does this NPC have a weapon for me to even KNOW they have the move, and will the durability of that weapon last long enough to support the moves placement in their cycle'.

That's a big difference.

This is a good explanation of the problem with learning sword moves.

[Lordzio]

Origineel geplaatst door DisTer:

Oddly enough I do like the way you learn moves, I really do. I just dislike it when it comes to swords since, unlike fist moves, it's a mixed grab bag of RNG layered upon RNG to learn them.

It's not just 'does this NPC know this move' it's 'does this NPC know this move, does this NPC have a weapon for me to even KNOW they have the move, and will the durability of that weapon last long enough to support the moves placement in their cycle'.

That's a big difference.

Actually, certain NPCs have certain moves and comboses, it's not RNG. Only RNG here is which combo they are using. Also when you use dodge special skill from Windfall the enemy is not using his durability with sword, so you can farm longer. On top of that you can start their combo by coming close and dashing out when they are starting the attack, and then you come closer and use dodge skill when you need it. That's how I've learned it anyway.

[obliviondoll]

Dodging (not Windfall avoid) has iframes. Time a backward dodge right against most attacks and you can phase through the attack *WITHOUT* taking yourself out of line for the next attack in the enemy's string. Also back dodging at the beginning of an attack string can often allow an enemy to swing multiple attacks that miss you before getting in range for the one you want.

Also, once you've identified a move you want, and the NPC who has it, you *CAN* actively keep in mind what the NPC looks like, and any other NPC with the same outfit will have the same moveset.

And, again, I do still agree with the basic premise that sword attacks are slower to farm than it feels like they should be. Making weapon attack XP go a bit faster than it does right now would be great.

[Mosey]

I just mean the RNG of spawns, but the point is well taken. Even finding out if a certain NPC has a certain sword attack is a pain that usually requires giving them one of the many crappy weapons that dot a map. That seems silly to me.

Perhaps all NPC should just have a weapon they can draw. That could work.