It is a PvP game, stop whining

[thebrzi]

Don't mean to be rude but... Stop whining about game content and whatever. This is a PvP game before anything!

PvE is here so you can learn the basics and farm moves. That is all.

A great and unique PvP fighting game!

[Mieumieu]

That's not how I read what the game was supposed to be. It very clearly says PvP and PvE. It describes itself as a multiplayer co-op game with optional PvP. It says you never know what others are going to do, not that you are supposed to or not supposed to fight each other outside of the arena fights, and that you're playing through a world and story where you may meet others and may not. I don't see the game described as this PvP arena as you're saying.

People want more PvE and that's understandable. Not many people are here playing the game as a PvP game. If there was more PvE content there would be more players hanging around that could take part in PvP or not.

If you want them to shut up and go away - you will get your wish. Eventually they do, and then there ends up being barely anybody playing.

If you're talking about reviews, I guess I understand being a bit upset if it's a game you're into. Personally I think if people are asking for more PvE content and such and saying it's too short that they sort of have a point, if it's as short as they are claiming anyway (I'm not there yet to see).

I just started the game myself. Since I got it in my Humble Bundle subscription, I don't really care if there isn't a lot of content, but after I do blow through the PvE I don't see myself sticking around to PvP here. I only PvP in games where all is equal and not in games where you level up and gain stats and moves that others may not have. If there was more PvE and co-op I'd stick around a long time. If I enjoy my play time, however short, I won't give it a negative review or anything though.

As mentioned I am a new player. I just accidentally attacked someone because I don't know the game well yet :D I was desperate to find enemies to fight without much around and swung before noticing they had a name floating over them.

I realized they were a person too late and hoped they'd keep going, they turned back around to fight back and I killed them with my sword. I felt all guilty, saw a revive button that I pressed and then I ran away quick feeling bad but not knowing how to say I was sorry and it was a mistake.

I obviously saw the function that lets me play solo and avoid others if I want, but I didn't get that the game was based on being even mostly a PvP game in the description. It very much is described as a co-op fighting game with open PvP as well in the world. Sorry but what you're saying just isn't what the game is actually described as on the store page.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by MewmewGirl:

*LOTS*

ALMOST every "game is too short" review is from before Downfall. And because of the prevalence of players who had come to the game for the PvE experience and wanted more, the devs LISTENED and created a new PvE endgame mode.

As for the balance in PvP, it doesn't take particularly long ot level up to 60, which is max. After that, you get prestige leveling which doesn't give further stat points. Even before you hit max level, there's a built in handicap mechanic - between rounds, the winner of the previous round only gets partial healing, and that healing is modified based on the relative level gap between the players, and the starting health of each player at the beginning of the round. And with everything having relatively low soft caps, the benefits of your invested stat points trail off somewhat as you level up, too. So that further mitigates how strong it is to have an advantage in level over your opponent.

Learning moves is the biggest hurdle - and while that can take time to figure out, once you know how it works, you can quickly farm moves that you find useful for building what you want. So the balance in PvP is a lot less "high level = win" than you might think - the high level players dominating new people is VERY MUCH more based on skill and experience than raw numbers being better.

I've fought, fairly and without holding back, against a level 13 player with around 4 hours of playtime but a solid basis in fighting games and a lot of prior research before getting the game, and lost. I've used several characters (because I've made 8) in the level 15 to 20 range against prestiged characters with a full level 60 stat build, and won regularly because I had unlocked useful moves and built solid PvP-ready decks even though I was a low-level character who hadn't yet had the opportunity to meet up with higher-level NPCs or farm moves from other players..

EDIT: Also here, have some quotes from the store page:

"Absolver is an online multiplayer combat game"

Literally the first thing mentioned on the store page.

"Fluid Real-Time Combat: Position yourself in one of four tactical stances during real-time battles and execute devastating attacks, dodges, and parries. Movement becomes your weapon as you engage in solo duels or intense multiplayer melee battles."

The first item on the list of features. Emphasis on "ENGAGE IN SOLO DUELS OR INTENSE MULTIPLAYER MELEE BATTLES" here.

"These moments are filled with tension as intentions to battle or befriend are never clear: trust is always a leap of faith."

This is the most ambiguous part of the most ambiguous feature in the list. And even here it's saying "people might offer to co-op but be careful they might just do it to get an edge in a fight by hitting you in the back after you agreed to co-op".

"Explore a rich and dynamic world including dedicated PvP battle arenas where champions will receive spoils of victory and progress in the ranks of the Absolvers"

This line does continue to mention PvE, but it's pretty blatant that it's an afterthought and not the primary focus of the listing of multiplayer options.

Again, though. The devs already did expand PvE, and what they added is an interesting game mode with (admittedly limited) procedural generation built into it, so even though you know the basic idea of what you're getting into each time, you don't know the exact challenges you'll face on the way through each run.

[thebrzi]

Everything obliviondoll has said in his edit is true and shows the nature of the game, and how PvP is “the core” of the game.

So if someone misunderstands this, his misunderstanding is not the reason to whine and talk smack about the game or the developers.


But I still hope you will enjoy the game and find your fun in it and make friends.

[Mieumieu]

Originally posted by obliviondoll:

EDIT: Also here, have some quotes from the store page:

"Absolver is an online multiplayer combat game"

Literally the first thing mentioned on the store page.

"Fluid Real-Time Combat: Position yourself in one of four tactical stances during real-time battles and execute devastating attacks, dodges, and parries. Movement becomes your weapon as you engage in solo duels or intense multiplayer melee battles."

The first item on the list of features. Emphasis on "ENGAGE IN SOLO DUELS OR INTENSE MULTIPLAYER MELEE BATTLES" here.

"These moments are filled with tension as intentions to battle or befriend are never clear: trust is always a leap of faith."

This is the most ambiguous part of the most ambiguous feature in the list. And even here it's saying "people might offer to co-op but be careful they might just do it to get an edge in a fight by hitting you in the back after you agreed to co-op".

"Explore a rich and dynamic world including dedicated PvP battle arenas where champions will receive spoils of victory and progress in the ranks of the Absolvers"

This line does continue to mention PvE, but it's pretty blatant that it's an afterthought and not the primary focus of the listing of multiplayer options.

Again, though. The devs already did expand PvE, and what they added is an interesting game mode with (admittedly limited) procedural generation built into it, so even though you know the basic idea of what you're getting into each time, you don't know the exact challenges you'll face on the way through each run.

Sorry but that stuff to me still doesn't seem as if the game is being listed as being a PvP focused game.

Even if it's supposed to be one, I'm just saying from the store page it certainly looks like it's a mix between an online co-op fighter and PvP arenas.

Solo duels to me sounds like that's is something done against the NPCs you come across. It doesn't say PvP duels. The solo and mutliplayer battles it's talking about sound to me as if they mean people fighting the NPCs alone or with others.

An online multiplayer combat game doesn't mean that combat is against other people, or else it would say an online multiplayer PvP combat game. Every pure PvE MMORPG is an online multiplayer combat game. We're online in multiplayer with others all over and we're taking part in combat against the NPCs.

You can even play the game offline without other people there, to me that isn't a feature in a game that is supposed to be PvP focused. To you, you may feel like that is practice. To me that felt like it was a major part of the game.

PvP is barely mentioned, other than the PvP arenas and that you'll meet people that you never know if they'll be friendly or not. PvP focused games normally say all over them that they're about PvP and specifically about fighting other players.

I don't enjoy PvP in the majority of games that have leveling of stats but I still really am having fun here so far. Yes, I did fly through the original campaign pretty quick and maybe I would have said in a review that I would have thought it should have been $20 because of that (before the DLC was here), but I wouldn't list it as not recommended because of that.

I think part of it may also be that the PvE they did add is such a fun experience and so cool that people end up wanting more (again I may be wrong here as I haven't looked through the reviews a lot, I'm just thinking about how I would personally feel). It feels as if this was the first chapter in a game that would had have many more if it had sold better. It's really very cool and makes you yearn for more.

The store page definitely looks vague to me about the game's main aim being PvP. Even if that is the game's focus, it doesn't read that way to many of us who view it. Maybe they should update the description, or maybe now that they added more PvE DLC it doesn't need to be updated :P

I've said how I feel, though definitely won't be giving it a negative review because of this or anything.

I don't have any more to say now though on this issue after this post so I probably won't be replying again on this subject :D

If you have more you feel you want to let me know I'll read the reply out of respect for your opinion and of course it is your post and you should say all you want on the subject. I'll definitely read your reply if you feel that you want to say more on the subject, I just probably won't write back again because I'd be going in circles repeating myself :D

*Edit - One other last note I thought of here just after I clicked post - the articles I read on game sites about this game always described it as a martial arts like MMORPG game. They wrote about it as a co-op brawler with optional PvP. They always said the game was a mix of PvE and PvP and the articles lean more towards talking about grouping with others and such rather than fighting against them. So if it is supposed to be mainly a PvP game, the media reporting on it didn't see that very easily either. To many of us the PvP image isn't being conveyed well.

[thebrzi]

From official FAQ on Steam:

“Once they achieve Absolution they are free to roam the land engaging in combat, becoming a mentor to those that wish to learn from them, and entering into more traditional 1v1 matches.”

Becoming a mentor (PvP aspect of the game, you cannot become a mentor to an NPC)
Traditional 1v1 matches (obvious PvP)

_______________________________________________________________________

“Absolver is a somewhat unique blend of online and offline game, both happening in the same experience with other players passively introduced to each other’s game similar to thatgamecompany’s Journey. WHILE ABSOLVER WAS DESIGNED AND INTENDED TO PLAYED ONLINE WITH OTHERS, players can certainly play offline and even choose to limit other players from entering their game. Though possible to complete the game offline, THE TEAM AT SLOCLAP HIGHLY RECOMMENDS THAT PLAYERS EXPERIENCE THE MULTIPLAYER COMBAT AND SOCIAL INTERACTION THAT ARE INHERENT TO ABSOLVER’S DESIGN.”

Multiplayer combat (it is not written “cooperative combat”, so again it is PvP)
Social interaction (again PvP, no social interactions with NPCs)

_______________________________________________________________________

“THE CORE OF ABSOLVER’S GAMEPLAY IS ITS DEEP FIGHTING MECHANICS AND ONLINE COMBAT. Prospects will enter the plains of Adal alone and ENCOUNTER BOTH AI-CONTROLLED OPPONENTS AND LIVE PLAYERS through Absolver’s shared online experience structure. Players will roam the world as their own independent ‘server’ as the game seamlessly introduces other Prospects into their game experience. ONCE PLAYERS ENCOUNTER ONE ANOTHER THEY WILL HAVE A CHOICE TO ENGAGE IN FRIENDLY SPARRING, MORE AGGRESSIVE PVP COMBAT, OR COOPERATIVE PVE PLAY WITH UP TO THREE PLAYERS AT ONCE.”

Online combat (PvP if you ask me since you can play the game offline, so no point to metion online combat as a PvE; but people could interpret this differently)
Encounter both AI-controlled opponents and live players (mix of PvE and PvP)
Friendly sparring (PvP)
More aggressive PvP combat (PvP)
Cooperative PvE play (PvE)




So anyone can easily see how big a focus is on PvP versus PvE

_______________________________________________________________________

In addition

“IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT ABSOLVER IS NOT AN ONLINE RPG OR AN MMO, THE SCALE IS RELATIVELY SMALL COMPARED TO WELL KNOWN GAMES IN THOSE GENRES AND THE ONLINE INTERACTIONS ARE MUCH MORE FOCUSED AND PERSONAL WITHOUT THE LARGE SCALE SERVER POPULATIONS ONE MIGHT EXPECT FROM AN MMO.”



"THE WORLD OF ADAL IS RELATIVELY MODEST AND CAN BE TRAVERSED FROM END TO END IN HALF AN HOUR OR SO PROVIDED ALL AREAS HAVE BEEN UNLOCKED. THE GOAL WAS NOT TO HAVE A LARGE OPEN WORLD BUT INSTEAD A REALM WHERE PLAYERS COULD EXPLORE AND ENCOUNTER BOTH NPC COMBATANTS AND OTHER LIVE PLAYERS TO INTERACT WITH, WHETHER THAT BE FIGHTING, SPARRING, OR SIMPLY POLITELY BOWING AND GOING THEIR SEPARATE WAY."

The world can be traversed from end to end in half an hour
Goal was not to have large open world
Encounter both NPC combatants and other live players to interact with, wether that be fighnng, sparring (again a mix of PvE and PvP)

_________________________________________________________________________


So... just count the PvP and PvE.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by MewmewGirl:

*Edit - One other last note I thought of here just after I clicked post - the articles I read on game sites about this game always described it as a martial arts like MMORPG game. They wrote about it as a co-op brawler with optional PvP. They always said the game was a mix of PvE and PvP and the articles lean more towards talking about grouping with others and such rather than fighting against them. So if it is supposed to be mainly a PvP game, the media reporting on it didn't see that very easily either. To many of us the PvP image isn't being conveyed well.

In the several pre-release interviews, and in the official demonstrations of the game on the publisher's Twitch channel, they did a good job of presenting the game as a fighting game with a more expansive PvE experience than the genre normally has. Several MMO sites picked it up for NO REASON and a bunch of other websites jumped on the "it's listed on MMO.com so it's MMO" bandwagon in spite of "It's not any kind of MMO or anything like that" having been in interviews some of those same websites had posted.

Also, when the publishers put the game into the hands of streamers about a month early, there was a TON of misinformation from streamers flat-out lying to people about the information they'd been given and about what the game is, with the good sources of valid information being few and far between and not the bigger familiar names people jumped on.

So all the OFFICIAL information was pretty good, and the earlier you started looking, the more blatantly "this is a PvP game first and foremost" you found. But much information being spread elsewhere was simply complete incompetence on the part of the videogame journalism industry. Which, for reference, I've worked in for several websites and it SUUUUCKS. Game news is really, REALLY horribly handled as a marketplace and the industry surrounding gaming news is beyond money-hungry to the point of not being worth calling news any more in most cases.

[No1Eye]

it is a pvp oriented kind of a game, with a bit of pve on the side.

[Mashtooth]

Whining about whining, gotta luv it.

[Snow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g

[thebrzi]

O great, more smart people – just the thing this games needs (like it is not full of it already?!).




I'm just trying to explain the obvious thing that for some reason is not obvious (go figure?!).

Even the main bosses require you to reach a certain combat trial level if you wanna fight them on higher levels. And to reach that certain combat trial level one needs to, well surprise surprise, duel in PvP arenas.

[No1Eye]

for the love of god, stop whining for all the whining threads.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by No1Eye:

for the love of god, stop whining for all the whining threads.

Stop whining about people whining about people whining?

[thebrzi]

You perceiving me as a whiner for your own whining amusement doesn't mean your perception is right.

And if you don’t like whiners then why are you a whiner?!

[Mary]

*whines*

[No1Eye]

stop whining