Stagger needs a nerf (a big one)

[SewnTogether]

By far the fastest, ridiculously easy, and highest dps; stagger is way too op. I've been getting my ass handed to me countless times in combat trials against people with stagger, and more often than not i could barely land more than 2 hits without getting pummeled. From level 60s to level *35s* they all have won flawlessly against me with stagger. All one needs to do is button mash the mouse or gamepad to win. If this topic has not been addressed yet I do hope this post will get some attention.

[Datsurb]

I think that has more to do with their combat deck, not their fighting style. And instead of asking for a nerf, maybe team up with someone with stagger, and learn from them how to counter it.

[Jean-Guy]

Just git gud m8

[Dclyde]

Yeah they just line up the quickest attacks in there combat deck. It is possible to beat them but you have to just play perfect defence, like even one hit on you will ruin it at times. I do hope they nerf the lighter attacks.

[Neo]

Wrong. Stagger is just like Windfall you need to know what direction to hit for it to work. Up down left or right, the timing also has to be pretty good. The easiest to use is the foresaken parry, which Im currently working on, having learned the other three. Khalt absorb is the easiest to do but can be difficult to make useful. As a Khalt its tempting to go for the big hit right after the absorb to get the health back, but if you actualy wait it out you get the health back anyway and you can find a better opening, as the absorb will refill stamina I find a quick attack or a dodge to be much better than whatever super slow hard hitting move most khalts go for.

As for Windfall duck and jump will ruin most spammers day but it is the least forgiving style but that makes sense as it also gives the best reward. Windfall also doesn't work as well when surrounded, Absorb, stagger, and parry do much better in that regard.

I do think that the Parry is a bit too good, attacks that break absob should also break parry. There is nothing in this game as funny as doing a jumping attack and then haning mid air for a solid six seconds after being parried.

Stagger style also has the lowest health, and a good windfall deck and build will probally deal higher dps but the stagger will have higher potential damage. But thats deck and stat dependent.

[Maraxus]

Originally posted by Datsurb:

I think that has more to do with their combat deck, not their fighting style. And instead of asking for a nerf, maybe team up with someone with stagger, and learn from them how to counter it.

I have trouble with stagger attacks as well, but I don't think they're unbeatable. Time's too early to tell if they NEED a nerf, so the best thing we can do for the game in general is to try to adapt as well as possible.

[Swollwonder]

Stagger is a free win for me lol

[Neo]

Originally posted by King Maraxus:

Originally posted by Datsurb:

I think that has more to do with their combat deck, not their fighting style. And instead of asking for a nerf, maybe team up with someone with stagger, and learn from them how to counter it.

I have trouble with stagger attacks as well, but I don't think they're unbeatable. Time's too early to tell if they NEED a nerf, so the best thing we can do for the game in general is to try to adapt as well as possible.

Yeah it's far to early for people to be talking nerfs and buffs or meta. When I checked last night steam said 0% of players had learned all styles and I belive near zero for all moves. The game has also only been out for a few days. First day I remeber people complaining about foresaken being op, then yesterday it was fast attack spam, then this morning I saw people ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about hyperarmor. We clearly do not have the kind of experience base that other fighting games have yet.

[Maraxus]

Originally posted by Neo:

Originally posted by King Maraxus:

I have trouble with stagger attacks as well, but I don't think they're unbeatable. Time's too early to tell if they NEED a nerf, so the best thing we can do for the game in general is to try to adapt as well as possible.

Yeah it's far to early for people to be talking nerfs and buffs or meta. When I checked last night steam said 0% of players had learned all styles and I belive near zero for all moves. The game has also only been out for a few days. First day I remeber people complaining about foresaken being op, then yesterday it was fast attack spam, then this morning I saw people ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about hyperarmor. We clearly do not have the kind of experience base that other fighting games have yet.

We'll have to give it time. In the meantime, try to help each other understand how to combat difficulties they encounter, like this one. Keeping communication like that going should help identify what's actually unbalanced and what's just unfamiliar.

[Tenkula]

i have a feeling it's not about stagger being op, just stagger being easier to use than others

[danpaladin]

It's the stagger decks with lots of dual sweeping hits that gets me. So many anti-charge moves that aren't labeled as such but are effectively anti-charge + fast + sweeping (aka anti-dodge) + good DPS + built-in-evade. I can stop single shot spams with charge moves, but facing multiple cards of that kind of move in a stagger deck at once seems to be a bit much. Sort of feels like Eddy Gordo from Tekken.

It feels a little needing of adjustment in that regard. Otherwise, it's managable I'd say.

[The Word-Mule]

Agreed. It's unbalanced as ♥♥♥♥. It's not like they're unbeatable but they're definitely way stronger than any other style.

[Maraxus]

Originally posted by danpaladin:

It's the stagger decks with lots of dual sweeping hits that gets me. So many anti-charge moves that aren't labeled as such, but are effectively anti-charge + fast + sweeping (aka anti-dodge) + good DPS. I can stop single shot spams with charge moves, but having 3 or 4 of those moves in a deck at once seems a bit much.

It feels a little needing of adjustment in that regard. Otherwise, it's managable I'd say.

Yeah, that's my biggest problem with em, I find. I tend to use charging attacks to beat spammier styles, but they don't work on stagger because of all the double hits. Can't rely on absorb either because absorb can't counter for ♥♥♥♥, lol.

[Smug Kot]

nah stagger free deck its a decent one.

[Neo]

Originally posted by King Maraxus:

Originally posted by danpaladin:

It's the stagger decks with lots of dual sweeping hits that gets me. So many anti-charge moves that aren't labeled as such, but are effectively anti-charge + fast + sweeping (aka anti-dodge) + good DPS. I can stop single shot spams with charge moves, but having 3 or 4 of those moves in a deck at once seems a bit much.

It feels a little needing of adjustment in that regard. Otherwise, it's managable I'd say.

Yeah, that's my biggest problem with em, I find. I tend to use charging attacks to beat spammier styles, but they don't work on stagger because of all the double hits. Can't rely on absorb either because absorb can't counter for ♥♥♥♥, lol.

Agreed, Ive tried to mix my deck to deal with spam, sweep, and charge. Not easy to do mind you. I do think it is made eaiser by using the alt attacks not as heavy hits but as quick situational adjustments is better. I also have the deck set up so that Stance 1 leads to 3, 2 to 4, 3 to 2, 2 to 4 and then the alt attacks are flipped order. So if I know oh hey this guy is jab spam I chain stance 2 and 3 mostly, while sweep is mostly 4th and hyper is 1. The deck also favors stance 2 as due to the camera I always seem to start in forward right.

That said actually being good at switching stance and patterns and timing of the alt attacks is eaiser said than done.

[BritishPatternBalding]

Literally never lost to a stagger user, not even one round always 3-0, even the first time I ever saw stagger style in a trial I beat them with their own sword they pulled out on round 3. I'm not trying to brag I'm just saying the free deck has an easy pattern, always swipe, straight, swipe straight and so on. And no one uses a 100% deck of one style so if you fight a stagger style its the school deck.