Ralph and Chang Getting Free Turns

[Duskmare]

In the 'save the civilians mission with Ray, these two guys show up as part of the spoonists and then randomly take turns when it's not their turn.

Plus, I don't think it's possible for ralph not to crit and he's wiping my guys in 2 hits. Often back to back because, oh, he also has that stupid mastery that lets him attack twice, for some reason. Add to that forewhatever for a free attack whenever someone next to him tries to get away or literally do anything. (Once he even seemed to attack a guy randomly, while it was another ally's turn. That was fun...)

Honestly, the annoying moves wouldn't be so bad if he just stuck to his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place in the queue. What's not alright is him having some mini-cutscene, for NO reason, and then getting a free hit. Then Chang apparently gets a free turn whenever Ralph does, so he comes to mop up if someone somehow survives Ralph's multiple attacks.

Seriously, just make a game that doesn't cheat. Jumping in the load order for no reason is just not acceptable.

[Starmachine24]

The thing you described about him attacking you when you are moving close or trying to attack hem or moving away sound like the mastery [Forestallment]. It allows a character to take a once per turn responsive attack on an enemy that goes within 1 square of the character.

Which mission is this? I can't seem to remember which one you are talking about. When you say they take turns randomly when not their own turn, have you attacked them or anything? I don't know how that game handles when new enemies enter the battle and if their speed is higher than everyone else if that lets them go first.

[Duskmare]

Originally posted by Starmachine24:

The thing you described about him attacking you when you are moving close or trying to attack hem or moving away sound like the mastery [Forestallment]. It allows a character to take a once per turn responsive attack on an enemy that goes within 1 square of the character.

Which mission is this? I can't seem to remember which one you are talking about. When you say they take turns randomly when not their own turn, have you attacked them or anything? I don't know how that game handles when new enemies enter the battle and if their speed is higher than everyone else if that lets them go first.

Yeah, Forestallment was the "forewhatever" I meant.

I can't remember the name unfortunately. It's about level 25. Story wise there's been a huge car crash with at least 100 dead and you're there to pick up the survivors, then the gangs show up because... Actually, there's not any good reason for them to show up, just that the mission would be too easy without enemies I guess...

It really seems like they just get turns at random. Like, all the enemies spawn in then turns progress normally. I shoot some of them (actually killed more than half of them because heixing's scattershot is crazy), then at some point when it should be my guys moving another 3-4 times in a row, the enemy bosses just decide to have a turn. I didn't move closer to them, I didn't trigger any of their skills, they just decide that that's when they'd like to have a turn. Which is exceptionally annoying because if I had been given those 3-4 turns I probably could have killed the bosses, or at least forced them to run away to heal, instead of them getting to just outright kill one of my units.

Also, why the heck does dodge just become useless halfway through the game? I was quite happy having an invulnerable character out front to soak attacks but now it seems like the enemies are just hitting them every time. Especially the white tiger sword guys (Ralph included). My guy has 60% dodge. Add to that whatever the enemy is missing from their hit accuracy (usually they have about 80%) and I should be dodging them 80% or more of the time. Except they just seem to hit me now, regardless of how high my dodge is. Actually, seems to be white tiger guys in general because I remember the first mission against them was when I started getting hit. It was the one where you have to grab the three police groups and run away from the infinitely spawning enemies. Their gunners seemed to hit my dodge focused character 90% of the time too...
Unfortunately, I don't have all the info on them yet so I can't actually check the 'troublemakers' page to see what might be causing my dodge skill to not work.

[RexEviL]

Because game is getting harder :D, dodge is useful if you get 70-80%, otherwise block better.
They do have special masteries such as, +20% hit against bleeding, +50% hit against enemies hit by friendly etc.

[Duskmare]

Originally posted by RexEviL:

Because game is getting harder :D, dodge is useful if you get 70-80%, otherwise block better.
They do have special masteries such as, +20% hit against bleeding, +50% hit against enemies hit by friendly etc.

Ah. Yeah. Those are pretty horrible. The bleeding one especially since their gunners have that mastery that applies bleeding even if they miss. Hmm, though, I swear they hit every single time, rather than missing the first time or only hitting after the character has already gotten bleed on them. Maybe I have just been a bit unlucky with that then...

[x_equals_speed]

There are a few ways things could be getting free turns, it mostly comes down to masteries that reduces their action time (The number on the bar on the right that determines turn order).

Some enemies reduce the AT of nearby allies when they die.
Some reduce their own time when they see people on their side die (or people on your side)
Some reduce their own time when they're attacked and block (or when they're attacked and dodge or when they're attacked and hit)
Some get to go instantly if their next turn is far enough away (So doing enough reaction attacks makes it their go!)

All of these are things you can do once you've beaten them and have their masteries ;)

If you can spot a symbol floating off them that looks like a clock with a number next to it, that's their AT changing. Figuring out what's making that happen can make a fight a lot easier. It could be you need to stop AoEing the mooks because killing a bunch makes it the bosses turn, perhaps you need to prevent them taking counter attacks using ranged abilities, perhaps you need to hit them a smaller number of times with big single target powers rather than lots fo weak hits. I can't remember this level well enough to say exactly what you need to do, but figuring out why they're getting turns rather than experiencing it as random will be the key to success.

I quite like that the game throws you curveballs and you need to work out new approaches rather than doing the same thing all the time. It does mean that some levels feel like brick walls because your previous tried and tested approach doesn't work anymore. The first bicron level, the draki nest and the skull snipers all did that to me.

[Duskmare]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

There are a few ways things could be getting free turns, it mostly comes down to masteries that reduces their action time (The number on the bar on the right that determines turn order).

Some enemies reduce the AT of nearby allies when they die.
Some reduce their own time when they see people on their side die (or people on your side)
Some reduce their own time when they're attacked and block (or when they're attacked and dodge or when they're attacked and hit)
Some get to go instantly if their next turn is far enough away (So doing enough reaction attacks makes it their go!)

All of these are things you can do once you've beaten them and have their masteries ;)

If you can spot a symbol floating off them that looks like a clock with a number next to it, that's their AT changing. Figuring out what's making that happen can make a fight a lot easier. It could be you need to stop AoEing the mooks because killing a bunch makes it the bosses turn, perhaps you need to prevent them taking counter attacks using ranged abilities, perhaps you need to hit them a smaller number of times with big single target powers rather than lots fo weak hits. I can't remember this level well enough to say exactly what you need to do, but figuring out why they're getting turns rather than experiencing it as random will be the key to success.

I quite like that the game throws you curveballs and you need to work out new approaches rather than doing the same thing all the time. It does mean that some levels feel like brick walls because your previous tried and tested approach doesn't work anymore. The first bicron level, the draki nest and the skull snipers all did that to me.

Hmm, that's a possibility too. Again, I don't really have access to the boss stats in the troublemaker menu so I can't check, but I did eliminate a whole lot of mooks with my lads Sion and Heixing. It was right after the second lot (Sion's turn) that the bosses got free turns. I definitely didn't see any 'AT changing' sign though...

[Starmachine24]

Hmm then i have no idea why that happens, as the only things i can think of is what X_equals_speed said. Could be that it is a bug involved but i would highly doubt it.

Edit: Do you know which chapter the missions is in? If you go to Silverlining and then the office, you can click on Case Record and replay scenario missions. Up at the top there should be indicators allowing you to select which chapter you want to play a scenario from.

[x_equals_speed]

I had a look at Ralph and checked his masteries. It's more satisfying to figure it out for yourself but if you've got fed up with the level Ralph has the mastery Comeradery which lowers his action time by 30 every time an enemy in his line of sight dies or makes it his go immediately if his action time was 30 or less. On average it takes him about 60 action points to have a turn, so killing two enemies in his LOS gives him a free turn. I suspect that you missed the symbol showing his action time changing because It would appear at the same time as the XP and masteries for killing the enemy, they appear on the centre of the screen while his AT change would appear centered on him (possibly offscreen entirely if he's not close to the enemy but still in LOS).

[Duskmare]

Originally posted by x_equals_speed:

I had a look at Ralph and checked his masteries. It's more satisfying to figure it out for yourself but if you've got fed up with the level Ralph has the mastery Comeradery which lowers his action time by 30 every time an enemy in his line of sight dies or makes it his go immediately if his action time was 30 or less. On average it takes him about 60 action points to have a turn, so killing two enemies in his LOS gives him a free turn. I suspect that you missed the symbol showing his action time changing because It would appear at the same time as the XP and masteries for killing the enemy, they appear on the centre of the screen while his AT change would appear centered on him (possibly offscreen entirely if he's not close to the enemy but still in LOS).

Yeah, seems it was this then. I must have just missed the symbol, as you said. I was using multi-kill abilities so there would have been a lot of pop-ups all at once too.