Albus's Magic Knight class

[Dead2Rights]

Hi developers!

I have been playing this game a lot recently (about 100 hours). I just wanted to say that the Magic Knight class for Albus doesn't seem to be very good. The primary reason for this isn't the masteries, it is the fact that his attacks either don't rely on ESP damage or very small percents of ESP damage.

Maybe this is intentional, but it seems strange he would have access to both Swordsman and Elementalist masteries as a Magic Knight, but get very little use out of having a high ESP score other than the default class mastery bonus (which is actually very low...)

Could it be possible to look at somehow making the Magic Knight class use the ESP stat more effectively? Perhaps add a level 1 and level 2 magic knight ability that can substitute for a basic sword attack using ESP? It's weird that a magic knights best attack ability is gentle breeze :)

Thank you

[Echo]

Hi Dead2Rights!

I'm glad you brought this up, I think this has been a long-running issue with Albus and one of my pet peeves. There's an interesting discussion in the other Albus thread that touches on this too.

To add to your post, I think a major issue with the Magic Knight design is that there is very little re-use and synergy between masteries. Sword masteries just don't combine well at all with either the MK class masteries or ESP masteries. The result is being forced to go entirely one way (full sword, full MK or full ESP). This is very inefficient and doesn't even begin to form a proper build.

Compare that to the Battlemage where all class masteries are interspersed with ESP masteries to create fun and powerful mastery sets. You can pick and choose there and still have room left over to customize a build and fill any gaps, but the same cannot be said for Magic Knight.

[Ordering]

Hmm... Oddly I found the balance forum come out from the void... Honestly, I think damage-wise MK is fine since ESP crit damage got increase by 9% of attack power thanks to [Magic Sword]. The problem is that MK lacks means to bypass enemy block other than generic masteries.

However, I do think MK masteries don't synergy well, since most of them are somewhat gimmicky. They do provide weird effects(Curse of Sword) or hate effect(like Holy Sword), but not general dmg-boost effects. I guess this is mainly because they designed ESP masteries to be main component for ESP Albus, as the tutorial says(though it is weird that there isn't good ESP sword early on). It would be nice if MK have some anti-block mastery within class, and I also hope there would be proper magic sword(perhaps like those laser swords in SF movies) that is ESP-main, not just blades which have ESP as secondary stats.

[swightly]

I tried doing MK wind mage build but it's just sucks since he's limited to just using the single target wind spell and doesn't really offer anything else. I really like the new recent mastery that gives him passive curse stacks every turn at max vigor, and the lost spirit buffs/debuffs on kill.

I think the best way to use him as MK is just to slap on the unpredictable mastery set with the infinity sword set, park him by your tank and try not to be out of cover from enemy snipers. I've also used the second wind set along with holy sword to stack on the damage resists, but it feels like the enemy snipers can still easily shred him apart in the latest violent mission. The biggest weakness obviously is hardly any block since MK has limited defense slots and not being able to beat high block enemies. It would be nice if they made holy sword work on everything instead of just criminal enemies so I dont need to always swap him out on missions with none of them.

The other masteries for MK seems to outright suck (promised land/magical swordmaster), except Victory Blade for the Justice and Blood memory but I cant use them with unpredictable set until I get more of the new slot increasing masteries.

[Ordering]

Originally posted by swightly:

I tried doing MK wind mage build but it's just sucks since he's limited to just using the single target wind spell and doesn't really offer anything else. I really like the new recent mastery that gives him passive curse stacks every turn at max vigor, and the lost spirit buffs/debuffs on kill.

I think the best way to use him as MK is just to slap on the unpredictable mastery set with the infinity sword set, park him by your tank and try not to be out of cover from enemy snipers. I've also used the second wind set along with holy sword to stack on the damage resists, but it feels like the enemy snipers can still easily shred him apart in the latest violent mission. The biggest weakness obviously is hardly any block since MK has limited defense slots and not being able to beat high block enemies. It would be nice if they made holy sword work on everything instead of just criminal enemies so I dont need to always swap him out on missions with none of them.

The other masteries for MK seems to outright suck (promised land/magical swordmaster), except Victory Blade for the Justice and Blood memory but I cant use them with unpredictable set until I get more of the new slot increasing masteries.

Tbf, Wind MK still bring unique role to the table, since he is only proper mage with double turn ability and dash ability. I think he is okay as ESP skirmisher, unless you count Kylie(but she can perform any role, so it isn't fair comparison). At least, there are situations that I would pick him rather than Black Mage Sion, like the mission where there are too many buildings

[Echo]

Originally posted by swightly:

I think the best way to use him as MK is just to slap on the unpredictable mastery set with the infinity sword set, park him by your tank and try not to be out of cover from enemy snipers. I've also used the second wind set along with holy sword to stack on the damage resists, but it feels like the enemy snipers can still easily shred him apart in the latest violent mission. The biggest weakness obviously is hardly any block since MK has limited defense slots and not being able to beat high block enemies. It would be nice if they made holy sword work on everything instead of just criminal enemies so I dont need to always swap him out on missions with none of them.

The problem with this is that the same approach works much, much better as a GS bleed. MK needs to bring something different, unique, and comparably good to be a valid alternative.

Originally posted by Ordering:

Tbf, Wind MK still bring unique role to the table, since he is only proper mage with double turn ability and dash ability. I think he is okay as ESP skirmisher, unless you count Kylie(but she can perform any role, so it isn't fair comparison). At least, there are situations that I would pick him rather than Black Mage Sion, like the mission where there are too many buildings

You can get double turns as a GS no problem, especially with Catharsis you can get triple turns if enemies are close together. This is not an advantage of MK, but Albus himself.
As an ESP skirmisher, he's seriously lacking in the AoE department. Even with One Shot One Kill, it's just far less inefficient than Bleed, since he can only target enemies in range and then he's done, vs constantly moving/scouting/repositioning as GS.

[Ordering]

Originally posted by Echo:

You can get double turns as a GS no problem, especially with Catharsis you can get triple turns if enemies are close together. This is not an advantage of MK, but Albus himself.

True but there is enough difference between two classes because GS is better for slashing and MK is better for Wind attack. The problem could be just that there isn't enough enemies who requires ESP attacks(for example, some enemies might have stupidly high armor compared to resistance), rather than just MK being weak.

Originally posted by Echo:

As an ESP skirmisher, he's seriously lacking in the AoE department. Even with One Shot One Kill, it's just far less inefficient than Bleed, since he can only target enemies in range and then he's done, vs constantly moving/scouting/repositioning as GS.

MK Albus can use 'Calling on the Wind' and do wind damage with his dashing attack, which allows repositioning, and it is viable even if you are ESP main unless you target tough one thanks to Magic Sword increasing ESP crit dmg. Witch Anne also has one single target/one small AoE like Albus(not counting SP ability), but no one complains much. You can argue Anne has healing, but Albus has double move/wind walk as well.

[Echo]

Anne doesn't only have healing, but area of effect buffs and debuffs as well. She's infinitely more versatile than Albus, and can be specced for support, damage or a mix of both with added utility. She can also single-target just as well as Wind Albus. And her AoE has better scaling, skill and mastery support.

Are you seriously comparing MK Albus with Anne?

We've had this discussion before and I still can't understand how you can consider MK Albus good in any way compared to GS or other teammates. Unless you're not going for optimum builds and efficiency.

[Seswatha]

I mean, it's worse than GS, but not by that much. GS itself doesn't offer that much tbh. Most of the usedul sets come from the base swordsman set. And its not all about sets since a good mix of right masteries can be better.

GS has:
-Higher dodge and block bypass. Mostly through the base class bonus.
-Generally better stats (e,g. higher base block and dodge)
-Traces of Blood set for 40%(70% if bleeding) blade storm activation
-Blade set phantom for a bit better life drain, AT reduction on heals etc

GS problems:
-Generally low hit chance after dashing. Mostly relies on guaranteed crits from retaliation set and forstalment for dealing damage although if you're in a middle of bleeding enemies you didn't finish with counters you can mop them up very quickly
-Poor tanking
-Poor vigor management - low pool and regen, at least counterattacks are free

Imo the rest of the stuff is too gimmicky (happy to be proven wrong). Some people swear by Sword of guard but there's only so much AT reduction you need and the bleed set seems superior. Plus Albus makes a terrible block tank anyway due to lack of affordable block bonuses, heals and stackable damage reductions (see battlemage).

MK has:
-Higher hit chance and crit damage. It's easy enough to have 700+ esp and attack under magic amplification in the mid-late game which is +20% hit and +60% crit damage. With endgame gear probably not hard to hit 1000+ on both and 1500+ with Curse of the Sword stacked
-Better vigor management - essentially infinite with soul drain or alternatively avalon and sage give a ton of regen
-Can stack up some pretty ridiculous buffs with Curse of the Sword, like +99 speed at full stacks. It takes a long time though, but between Infinity Sword and Soul Reaver set faster than you would expect
-Tornado slash uses 100% att and 25% esp and both ults use 100% of both att and esp so these attacks are gonna be more powerful on MK
-Has a workable ranged attack

MK cons:
-No extra perks to deal with enemy block (breakthrough is still there for everyone though)
-Lower base block/dodge
-bladestorm is not as powerful (likely not worth bothering with on MK)

I wouldn't play Albus MK as a pure wind mage, he first and foremost lacks good abilities to pull it off (I think getting some basic wind attack instead of Wind Slash would make this route more viable). Having to use swords also hurts his hit chance as these usually lack the +SP type hit chance bangles have.

Overall GS seems better suited for taking out bosses and high block enemies, mostly using retaliation attacks, while MK is better at actively attacking using a mix of melee and ranged attack from a safer position to take out weak enemies while building up the Curse of the Sword stacks until he's strong enough to engage tougher enemies.

[Ordering]

Originally posted by Echo:

Anne doesn't only have healing, but area of effect buffs and debuffs as well. She's infinitely more versatile than Albus, and can be specced for support, damage or a mix of both with added utility. She can also single-target just as well as Wind Albus. And her AoE has better scaling, skill and mastery support.

Are you seriously comparing MK Albus with Anne?

We've had this discussion before and I still can't understand how you can consider MK Albus good in any way compared to GS or other teammates. Unless you're not going for optimum builds and efficiency.

Well, I think 'the character actually being weak' and 'there isn't proper environment for the character' should be distinguished. Like having those bicrons that has anti-wind mastery as its default mastery isn't the problem for Wind MK being weak, but poor design in general. I think the problem is more on the design itself is harsh to wind MK, rather than just character being weak. I don't think Double Turn/Wind Walk are lesser than healings or buffs, but the current design don't encourage people to use it. As I said, if there are several enemies with high armor on buildings, Wind MK would become good choice for clearing them.

[Xaxil Nightsun]

For me MK is an odd situation mostly due to Albus' kit catering more towards GS, his two offensive wind attacks are sub par to be consider viable long term compared to his melee attacks.

There is also the issue with wind mastery set options for Albus, and his board not allowing for much synergy between wind and MK, you either have to commit to one or the other, Albus' abilities don't allow for much freedom on this, plus there is also the issue of the swordsman class in general being pretty offense focus and he doesn't have any really good defense options as a MK that would let him survive enemy pressure long enough to make a comeback or get help should he get focused compared to GS, plus even the offense focus options are pretty inferior to GS when in the hands of Albus, you have a lower chance of taking out units as a MK then you would as a GS, not so low that you can do it consistently but low enough that it makes GS more reliable and less likely to fail you.

You could make the argument that Second wind is his defense option but that frankly isn't enough given the level of damage enemies can do now plus there is also a staggering lack of defensive focus wind sets for him to use, he ONLY has second wind as his choice for wind, his other non- offensive focus options is just utility which Albus really doesn't need, maybe Bianca yeah but not Albus.

As Ordering metioned there is also the enemies we've been facing plus the environment, many of them have just been making wind element and Mk feel inferior in all areas. I think the best thing they could do to balance MK is honestly just improve Albus' kit imo. Only his melee attacks are flawless everything else is pretty meh. Mk it self isn't really the bad it's just Albus' relationship with the class that is the issue.