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However, as we always said, we think that's a side issue at this point, which naturally resolves as the game continues to be updated.
# Challengeable Difficulty level Content Absence
Most of the users are still struggling with the current 'Hard' difficulty level. Users familiar with our games know that they want higher challenges, but I think that's a challenge that needs to be made through the addition of new difficulty levels.
And we don't want the Crimson Crow DLC to be more difficult than the white lion and black witch. I'm trying to provide a similar or a little more comfortable level of difficulty. It's trying to reduce the fatigue of making endless builds and continuing to challenge the high difficulty to some extent.
We'll provide a more challenging level of difficulty than the current level of difficulty after this DLC work. So it is not recommended for those whose farming is important because it will not increase additional compensation at the top of the existing difficulty system. For now, it will be purely content for challenges.
# A balance with humans
First of all, we don't think humans are stronger than beasts in concept. In general, just as machines are stronger than humans, beasts are stronger than humans. Although it may seem weak due to stupid AI, the weakest of the three races is basically humans.
Nevertheless, we think you have correctly judged this issue in the discussion. It's a balance problem enhanced by the new monster Mungo.
# About Mungo
We'll continue to adjust the balance in the process of developing this DLC.
Thank you for your suggetion. :)
The beasts finally getting to not be super handycapped outside a select few is exactly the direction I have been waiting and hoping for. This is a good direction for the game to make them more generally useful and fun instead of only certain ones being remotely viable to bother with instead of sticking to Sniper Giselle who can still just chain kill everything in sight faster.
I hope Dandylion doesn't back away from having more cool and good non-human things to play with whether it's beasts or machines if they further develop what we can do with those.
Edit so my post isn't just a rant:
Beasts having high inherent stats is balanced pretty well by their very limited active skills. Even mungos have a lot less tools to deal with situations than Human characters. They also miss out on some massive stat boosts that get provided by things like bracelets, and no matter how much of your board you sacrifice to get Hidden Wildness to a decent level you'll still end up with less than a Human character stacking block/dodge affixes on their equipment. Pincer Attack With Beast makes a lot of beasts more powerful than they otherwise would be, but that's the entire gimmick of Hunter class and in return you give up all the powerful masteries from Sniper.
What I'm trying to say is that beasts being numerically superior is okay because they pay for it in other ways.
Matter of fact is that beasts are supposed to be half a human team member. The latest Mungo incident has shown that that was definitely not the case. They were not only not half a character they were actually outperforming their human counterparts. They have been toned down but I believe that there are still a few borderline broken mechanics that can be abused. At least 1 of them. Don't have enough time to test all the different variations though.
However all that was to be expected. Just hearing that a beast with access to different classes as well as weapons and potions will be coming was enough to know that. That is so many different interactions many of which will be unforeseen and most likely imbalanced. Some may even be straight up broken and unintended. Can only hope that people will figure this out and it will be patched.
On that note I am happy that it has finally been decided that fixing numbers is necessary. Many times we had things implemented and they were not exactly balanced and the approach to balancing them was to add more other stuff that counters them (and may cause other imbalances that way). I think just the good old nerf hammer is a perfectly fine approach for something that can be fixed by just numbers changes. And there are a lot of those things. Hopefully the right compromises can be found.
Beasts are NOT breaking the game by getting stronger or more generally usable. Making absurdly powerful builds usable in every situation has been a thing with the human characters for ages. It's not a new beast problem and we all know the reason everyone keeps aiming to make more and more insane build stuff isn't because the difficulty of the game demands it, it's because that's where the FUN is.
you can only summon 1 beast
I can't speak for everyone, but I think most people who enjoy this game love the existing characters, the human characters.
Where as many of the beast are just designed to just... be there taking up space in missions as enemies
so many of the beast are unused, like venom yashas, or lightning timas, many of the Negoori
I think people would much rather enjoy having access to other cool characters like: Sion, Heixing, and Kylie then get some dumpy looking beast
(the art style difference between human and beast is actually pretty jarring)
We've all seen the request for certain antagonist and NPC characters to join the troubleshooter company after all
as previously stated in the Original Post at the top, quoting Dandylion
the ideal state is that the beast are not meant to compete with human characters directly, and were meant to be a supplement to Giselle
in the same way that Drones are meant to be supplements to Kylie, not replacements for other whole party members
And you know you can't speak for others, so don't do that. Liking the human characters is not some mutually exclusive state from liking non-human characters. I like both but prefer non-human characters in everything so the pets in this game have always been my biggest appeal. That's why I want to see them more usuable instead of ranging from trash to completely broken with no in between worth using vs Sniper Giselle.
Your post whining needlessly about mungos being a bit relevant while they are brand new and using out of context images that don't accurately portray what they do is pathetic and a selfish attempt to say the devs need to cater to your preferences. You took a cropped screenshot of MY BMask stats in combat with buffs just to paint a false picture of "look at unfairly strong" they are on a build with tons of weaknesses that make him team reliant for clearing content still. All while he was objectively weaker then other species and types of beasts and humans still.
You also keep trying to bring up past comments by Dandylion and acting like you get to hold them to never being allowed to change their direction for the pets. You don't. If they decided they want to further expand what beasts and pets are capable of being then they obviously get to do that regardless of what they have stated before. You aren't pushing for a better game by trying to hold them to old statements, you are just trying to keep the game in a tighter box with less possibilities and fun.
I agree that beasts are far too powerful for Beast+Giselle to add up to one character. As things stand a beast achieves at least parity with a human character so if the design goal is for one to add a fraction of a character that goal is not being met.
I agree that this design goal may no longer be a top priority. I'm quite happy for them to be the equal of a human, it is nice to be able to open up weapons and classes the player doesn't otherwise get to use. Getting to use more stuff is fun and having a character using it as parity seems more entertaining than one who'll achieve little.
I agree that beasts stats tend to be better than humans using equipment to boost them. I agree that humans have a lot of tricks to equalise this. Bond masteries haven't come up yet but I'd point to that as a meaningful advantage.
I agree that beasts can be built into extremely powerful specs and also that this is already true of the human characters in the game. Once you get into the top end of what can be built you can have one character clear whole maps anyway. It seems almost meaningless to compare top end builds to each other and more useful to think about how more modest approaches to character building will interact.
I agree that you don't want a beast to overshadow a main character at the main thing they're good at, so having Mungo's access core class masteries creates a real risk of that happening. In ninja Misty has got some difference-in-kind stuff she can do that Black Mask can't, but in rogue it feels like she's just got equal or worse versions of its moves. I dunno if this is a Black Mask problem or just that Misty/Rogue has struggled for a niche since creation.
There are loads of good points being made. I think the bottom line is to focus on what makes characters and beasts interesting to build and to try to emphasise that.
We try to reflect our users' opinions as much as possible, but it always happens within the maximum and minimum changes we determined of.
As we said at the beginning on this thread, we do not take this issue very seriously. There are various opinions from players, but if beast will weak, it'll tend to be easier beat the beast mission. It's our point. All the balance in our game is not determined by the character's stats themselves like what @x_equals_speed said.
In addition to this, what some players overlook in the balance problem every time is the mission we make. We can create countless missions that require you to build a few unimaginably "forced" builds when we make a mission. Every balance that you think of is just determined by the structure of the mission that's made now, the placement of the monsters, and the characteristics that we intend. Compared to that, the stats are small influential.
Of course, there are stats that seek overwhelming efficiency in various special builds such as block, move distant, speed and sight. However, all of these can be invalidated very easily due to the specificity of the mission.
However, these attempts may be a very enjoyable process as a challenge for some users to create a variety of builds, but for users who are accustomed to their preferred builds, they can be approached with a very unpleasant feeling of denying their style.
To be honest, we think this Mungo issue is in the same context. For some, this expansion that Mungo's class acess other class is the entrance to various experiences with plentful joy, but for others, it is just an unpleasantness that destroys the game balance they think.
This tendency may vary from person to person, but on the contrary, even the same person's view of this balance changes easily with very personal environmental changes such as the mood of the day, the number of training books left, and whether I have enough time to play the game.
We look at the balance of our game as above, so whenever we update, we consider and update the maximum and minimum of the emotional and actual efficiency aspects that the content will reach the player. For example, Misty has the potential to acquire additional mastery within the crimson crow DLC, so She is not strong at the begining. On the contrary, beast Mungo needed to be strong, so we tried to give it higher status at the begining.
However, in this process, users who think like @Vermillion must have thought it was quite unpleasant. We fully sympathize with that. Therefore, we proceeded with the same update as yesterday under the judgment that we should update the Mungo to the lowest state to make the mission easier and reinforce the weakened part in the Mungo that appears later. (Mission making easy is not about not making challenging things. It's just that players don't need to create a forced build at the current mission.)
All of these changes, though prolonged, are within the direction we consider. So don't worry too much. Although we naturally agree with the part where we think that added content like @TheGrouch91 will break the balance, if it was a game like that, the game would have already been completely ruined. However, most of player super builds are not unpredictable result, but the expected result that we allowed. Because we didn't want to control and offend the fun it gives.
Of course, if a particular build and play style is too fun by efficiency or play concept, users who do not use it have a relative deprivation that makes them boring and unpleasant like this case. Therefore, we prefer the degree to which we consistently adjust only the spikes of balance. And with additional updates, we pursue a better experience by coordinating the classes and enemies that fall behind.
Of course, we are not powerful developers, so we sometimes fail to keep this direction well. And there were even times when our judgment itself was wrong!
:D
We're truly sorry that we ruined the fun that each plasyer feels with constant changes!
We'll eventually do our best to reach a state where more people are happy. And the reason you can do that is because you give us a lot of different needs.
It's the end of the year in many ways, but I'm sorry again for making this issue!
Happy New year!
p.s
There will be further changes to Mungo today. We'll set some compromise that's weaker than previous Mungo, but a little better than it is today. Of course, even if this change goes in, it will be weaker than the first Mungo. We hope this adjust update doesn't make another storm...
The communication and willingness to see different opinions and respond as best the devs can is really nice to see and I hope you guys keep that up even in spite of the people expressing themselves harshly or even worse rudely since that wasn't deserved. Puts my mind at ease to hear we shouldn't have to face such severe sudden changes to balance again without more time being spent to consider options.
I am not sure how the beast masteries can properly be balanced but why not reverse the change on base stats of mungos back to their original values? According to the game's lore, mungos are powerful because they are naturally strong as beasts while also being able to use weapons meaning they are more dangerous compared to other beasts. It doesn't make sense to me if they are very weak without weapons and only become a threat when they are holding weapons.
Just wanted to share my opinion. I personally do not want enemy mungos to become any more weaker than they already are, regardless of the power balance on player controlled mungo.
We have updated the lates patch that Mungo's stats was reverted.
And we are trying to accumulate additional updates while maintaining the current status of the mastery part.
:)
Thank you for your kind understanding about our lack. We'll do our best to reach a good result!
That aside I do think that Mungos as a whole are a good idea and a good way of allowing the player to use classes and gear that would otherwise be unavailable to them without having to introduce major characters. I think from a design perspective that is a really nice approach. All it is that the numbers are a little bit borked which is to be expected with a matter as complex as this, like I said earlier. I am very confident that this can be fixed by simply watching and observing and then adjusting things as they come up. The concept as a whole is great.
Criticism and player feedback is important for a game. Especially on subjects as complicated as this. It is the players afterall that play the game. Dandy has shown, for the most part, to take that to heart and that's great. I think we can all find compromises that will satisfy the most people.