"For You" Mission Timing (Minor spoilers)

[Null Winter]

I hate that this mission follows right after the previous one with no break in-between. In order to defeat my entire busted team using only Giselle and Heixing, I had to unequip everyone's items, which will be a pain to sort out who was using what when I re-equip it all. But, before I can do that, I'm forced into a new mission and a fight with one of the hardest bosses in the game with no chance to win because all my gear was gone. That free loss? It sucks, even if I can replay the mission later.

[Delayed Hopkick]

There are dialog options you can pick to avoid one of the two fights in this mission, and even if you do lose one or both of the fights in that mission, you get unique character dialog that's available only if you lose (a certain character will show up if Irene loses to Marco, for example). It's also not possible, as far as I know, to get a completion rank below "Good" after completing this mission, so if your goal is to avoid "Bad" or "Terrible" rankings or any kind of "loss" in general, then you have nothing to worry about. The developers knew that some players would un-equip their masteries/equipment in order to complete the previous mission, so they made "For You" impossible to fail for this reason.

[Null Winter]

Originally posted by Delayed Hopkick:

There are dialog options you can pick to avoid one of the two fights in this mission, and even if you do lose one or both of the fights in that mission, you get unique character dialog that's available only if you lose (a certain character will show up if Irene loses to Marco, for example). It's also not possible, as far as I know, to get a completion rank below "Good" after completing this mission, so if your goal is to avoid "Bad" or "Terrible" rankings or any kind of "loss" in general, then you have nothing to worry about. The developers knew that some players would un-equip their masteries/equipment in order to complete the previous mission, so they made "For You" impossible to fail for this reason.

Yet some of the outcomes lead to guaranteed fights and the player could not have known the outcomes of sending which character to which area.

My main issue is that it's yet another forced mission/story transition with no break; on top of that, it immediately follows a frustrating mission where the optimal tactic is to gimp your entire team, so a player will likely still be upset following that mission. It doesn't make for a good experience.

[Aroq & Roll !!]

does the mission really start right after the previous one ? im 100% sure that never happened to me
also for the giselle vs all yes the easy way is to unequip your character but it is NOT the intented way, especially if you didnt farm a lot at this point your char should not be able to survive giselle shot and even if you did it is still possible to do it

[TheGrouch]

Originally posted by Null Winter:

I hate that this mission follows right after the previous one with no break in-between. In order to defeat my entire busted team using only Giselle and Heixing, I had to unequip everyone's items, which will be a pain to sort out who was using what when I re-equip it all. But, before I can do that, I'm forced into a new mission and a fight with one of the hardest bosses in the game with no chance to win because all my gear was gone. That free loss? It sucks, even if I can replay the mission later.

So you cheese the game by unequipping all your characters and then you are upset because all your characters are without equipment? Have you thought about uhm idk not cheesing the game?

[Null Winter]

Originally posted by TheGrouch91:

Originally posted by Null Winter:

I hate that this mission follows right after the previous one with no break in-between. In order to defeat my entire busted team using only Giselle and Heixing, I had to unequip everyone's items, which will be a pain to sort out who was using what when I re-equip it all. But, before I can do that, I'm forced into a new mission and a fight with one of the hardest bosses in the game with no chance to win because all my gear was gone. That free loss? It sucks, even if I can replay the mission later.

So you cheese the game by unequipping all your characters and then you are upset because all your characters are without equipment? Have you thought about uhm idk not cheesing the game?

Ah yes, mock someone for needing a clever solution to beating a rolling murdersquad of their own making, rather than staying on topic and looking at the possible design flaws that led to the situation. Brilliant! Very constructive!

My squad was so powerful that there was no feasible way for me to take them out with just 2.5 team members and fodder NPCs without taking off the equipment or ripping out everyone's Masteries.

[LCG]

Originally posted by Null Winter:

Originally posted by TheGrouch91:

So you cheese the game by unequipping all your characters and then you are upset because all your characters are without equipment? Have you thought about uhm idk not cheesing the game?

Ah yes, mock someone for needing a clever solution to beating a rolling murdersquad of their own making, rather than staying on topic and looking at the possible design flaws that led to the situation. Brilliant! Very constructive!

My squad was so powerful that there was no feasible way for me to take them out with just 2.5 team members and fodder NPCs without taking off the equipment or ripping out everyone's Masteries.

Than apparently your Giselle and whoever you paired with her weren´t powerful enough. Had no problem in beating the rest of my team and my team was able to clear the last violent mission already under 30 mins on Cruel/Challenge when i decided to finish part 1.
It´s not like the AI is capable of controlling the teammember like we could.

[Ficelle]

I had to nerf my whole team too for this mission (i used no mastery templates...simplier than unequiping everything)

No way my Gisele and another from my team could take the remaining 6
Tried 4 times the 'normal' way

If the whole team is build tanky with the mindset to 'never' die...none of them will die from one or even a few sniper shots...that just wont happen

And 6 have around 3 times more playtime than Gisele + 1, even if played by the AI


Happily for me, not a single fight in the following mission with Anne and Luna
Guess i made the right dialogues choices (pure hasard)

[TheGrouch]

Originally posted by Null Winter:

Originally posted by TheGrouch91:

So you cheese the game by unequipping all your characters and then you are upset because all your characters are without equipment? Have you thought about uhm idk not cheesing the game?

Ah yes, mock someone for needing a clever solution to beating a rolling murdersquad of their own making, rather than staying on topic and looking at the possible design flaws that led to the situation. Brilliant! Very constructive!

My squad was so powerful that there was no feasible way for me to take them out with just 2.5 team members and fodder NPCs without taking off the equipment or ripping out everyone's Masteries.

I'm not mocking you. I'm saying that you think it is a design flaw because it is difficult (impossible even). However I have beaten the mission without cheesing it and my team was just as min-maxed. So maybe instead of blaming the game for your own incompetence and then blaming it again after cheesing it didn't work you should try to get better at it?

The AI doesn't know how to use your own characters. They often suicide people like Anne by charging right at you. Giselle should be able to one or two-tap anyone that isn't a tank or Heixing with cover-move. Your police henchman can basically permaslow a whole group of enemies with their ice grenade. I personally used Ray as my 2nd character as she can also permaslow the entire battlefield with Shockwave and make the fight trivial.

It's still not easy but it's not impossible and it is definetely not a design flaw.

[fuldry]

Originally posted by TheGrouch91:

It's still not easy but it's not impossible and it is definetely not a design flaw.

I don't know what it is but it is certain intolerable story writing.
How do you expect a 6-player team NOT to beat a 2-player team without even speaking about the fact that it IS using your own design to beat you. The fact that this annoying mission is IMMEDIATELY followed by another, without time to set up back the f*** characters you HAD to gimp to pass a mandatory stupid mission makes it totally insufferable and annoying.

The defense training mission got me so annoyed that I did everything I could NOT to play it, with 4 characters reaching level 49 before trying again and deciding to simply remove all gear and masteries from the complete team but the 2 that were to defend. And then, let the game in Cruel difficulty and almost lost to the Defenders :)

I like the game, coming from ANY other game, I would have simply quit and uninstalled... While raging on the forum like I'm doing right now.

[The nameless Gamer]

I guess when they were making this mission, the devs expected the player to not have heavily optimized builds. Right when that mission appears first, Giselle is in theory one of the team's most efficient killers, one-shotting the others without much trouble. Endgame builds are different beasts. Most endgame builds are geared to endure multiple incapacitating blows. Giselle can NOT take on 6 characters with endgame builds AND a VHPD squad with frost grenades. As soon as the Suppressors get into throwing range, they start chucking frost grenades and delaying Giselle and your support of choice by AT 50. Also, Albus, Irene and Kylie can easily scale the tower Giselle is on with Wind Walk, Red Panda 4th Style - Snatch and Movement protocol respectively. Ray can enter Trance and one-shot Giselle with her ultimate ability, so there's that too (it's a 6 hit ability with massive damage, so go figure). All in all, that mission is NOT meant to be played with endgame builds.

[melkathi]

I thought the intended way to win was with traps. I only beat it because Irene walked into a trap, got confused and rushed Anne, killing her and the VHPD with her.

[fuldry]

Originally posted by The nameless Commander:

All in all, that mission is NOT meant to be played with endgame builds.

But it IS an endgame mission :p
And yeah, got frozen to death multiple times, and well, no masteries / no gear almost made it easy...

[Django ROUGE]

Did it very easily on the first try, Giselle with the mastery set that allow to fire support 3 times, and with Ray throwing things, they couldn't even approach the tower. And i optimized all of my masteries like 2 missions before so my team was quite strong

[RoseOfShadows707]

I didn´t really have too much trouble killing them first time round, except most of the team had at least one revive. And even through Irene finished me 2-3 times, I had the most trouble with the VHPD. Their grenades (especially wind-pressure) seriously messed me up.

Funnily enough, when I nerfed my entire team, the VHPD seemed much less of a problem too, for some reason.

Back to the topic, yeah, having a mission forced on you right after that really wasn´t ideal. I don´t have a problem with the mission itself, or chained missions in general, IF they make sense story-wise. But there was no need to have that mission play right after.
(I lucked out and avoided both combats.) Than I went back prepared and got all 4 achievements.

[Drakilian]

Originally posted by fuldry:

Originally posted by TheGrouch91:

It's still not easy but it's not impossible and it is definetely not a design flaw.

I don't know what it is but it is certain intolerable story writing.
How do you expect a 6-player team NOT to beat a 2-player team without even speaking about the fact that it IS using your own design to beat you. The fact that this annoying mission is IMMEDIATELY followed by another, without time to set up back the f*** characters you HAD to gimp to pass a mandatory stupid mission makes it totally insufferable and annoying.

The defense training mission got me so annoyed that I did everything I could NOT to play it, with 4 characters reaching level 49 before trying again and deciding to simply remove all gear and masteries from the complete team but the 2 that were to defend. And then, let the game in Cruel difficulty and almost lost to the Defenders :)

I like the game, coming from ANY other game, I would have simply quit and uninstalled... While raging on the forum like I'm doing right now.

You don’t have to win though. The objective is defense, not victory. I personally got through by one-shotting Sion twice at the start to get past snack revival and then throwing out a lunatic berserker counter build tank albino negoori that delayed/killed everyone passively. Then when it died Giselle threw out the next animal. And then the next. Giselle can technically be up to 21 characters if you have all of your slots filled, many of which are *much* stronger when optimally built than most of the actual characters - Leton will never be as good as a frost Tima or Draki. Ray’s mediocre output can’t compare to the draki builds. Alisa will never compare to lunatic beast counter Negooris, with their ranged counter and chase potentials. Albus needs lots of stacks to compare to timas. Even black mage Sion just barely keeps up with the damage output of lightning Beasts.

Irene’s battlemage build is the only thing that’s done better than her animal counter parts can do, and that’s mostly due to iron heart