OP Unit, the war-elephant

[jefrada194]

In medieval II Total War, the Timurids are the only faction that has war elephants, and these units are OP. In the late period, there is elephant artillery, and these have canons on there backs that shoot quickly and with precison, and with a quick re-loading time, better than the normal canon Plus, the war elephant can basicly squish an entire by just stepping on it. So why is that only the timurids get these. The mongols and the turks should also have acess to this OP unit so the timurids dont have that too-good avantage.

[Shadow of the SPQR]

The whole point is that they are OP, the Timurids are stupidly easy for a long-time player and rather easy to exploit AI wise.

Giving them to others just ruins the point. Mongols didn't even use them, and no, the Turks should definitely not get them, because you just said they are OP.

[[TUUONCUOGB]BothChicken]

This is something I never got. I never really experienced elephants being OP. They have a really good charge, but after they've charged they're mostly sitting ducks. Sure they attack a bit, but they get hit by alot more troops while they standing them due to their large size and their attack is pretty slow. If they die they can fall over and take some more guys with them. They don't too well beyond that. On top of that their massive size makes them more vulnerable to artillery since they're easier to hit and killing one elephant does alot of damage. Plus they're the only unit that when broken can attack your own units. I've never personally been able to use them well and everytime I've gone up against a player who used them I annihilate them.

The worst part is that they're expensive as ♥♥♥♥ and if you don't know how to use them (I'd admit to this) then you're screwed because now your army is much smaller than it has to be.

Melee can be a bit difficult especially if you don't have spear units (although let's be honest, when will you not have access to spear units in vanilla?), but if that's such a huge deal then aim your artillery at them and pick them off without engaging them in melee.

My impression is that they're more like shock units rather then extended melee. You charge them in first then charge with the rest of your troops to reinforce them.

[The Wrath of Santa]

Nice big targets for my artillery, my armies love them, juicy elephant steaks for everybody. Seriously artillery can take them out really quickly. Am I right in remembering that you can recruit these units as mercs in the Middle East?

[jefrada194]

Originally posted by Duane Dibbley:

Nice big targets for my artillery, my armies love them, juicy elephant steaks for everybody. Seriously artillery can take them out really quickly. Am I right in remembering that you can recruit these units as mercs in the Middle East?

Artillery may be easy for artiilery, but if you have no artillery and you're against war elephants, then you're kinda doomed. Plus, if you have a couple of elephant bombards, that have a lot more canons than youre artillery unit, they can destroy your artillery and can out-mauver them easily

[The Wrath of Santa]

I recall having great success against them with Byzantine trebuchets, you don't even need gunpowder units, just something with long range. Three trebuchet units focusing fire (using special ammo) on each elephant unit in turn and harassing them with your own missile cavalry.
In my experience trebuchets had enough range to hit them. When they come into archers range focus flaming arrow fire on each unit until they panic and run amok. If you don't have any kind of longe range option then you need to increase the amount of archer/missile units in your army, the key to beating them is focused fire.

I have done this and I can say that I have routed these units before there was any melee fighting between the armies. Once you know how to play them they're no big deal, you just need the right amount/combination of units in your own army.

[[TUUONCUOGB]BothChicken]

Originally posted by cooljf194:

Originally posted by Duane Dibbley:

Nice big targets for my artillery, my armies love them, juicy elephant steaks for everybody. Seriously artillery can take them out really quickly. Am I right in remembering that you can recruit these units as mercs in the Middle East?

Artillery may be easy for artiilery, but if you have no artillery and you're against war elephants, then you're kinda doomed. Plus, if you have a couple of elephant bombards, that have a lot more canons than youre artillery unit, they can destroy your artillery and can out-mauver them easily

I wouldn't say you're doomed, elephants have a devastating charge but their melee is really slow. If they're up against swords then yah they're invincible, but if it's spears/pikes that have survived their charge they're not invincible.

And what the hell are you doing with no artillery v war elephants? The Timurids arrive late in the game, you should have some sort of cannon or at least trebuchets or ballista towers.

Now the Elephant bombards have a couple more units, but they still lack range, the kind of range you get from more advanced cannons. And you still have the advantage; elephants are much bigger targets than artillery crews and are much more easily hit, on top of this if you fire on them they can run amok hurting their own forces.

Again I've never seen them being OP, every game I've had with them has just been a dissappointment from all the hype of them being powerful.

[Knutticus]

"Counter Units" are a feature of the TW Game system. Whatever unit you've got there is a cheaper unit that is more effective that it.

Against Elephants, well any Archer unit with flaming arrows has a credible chance of causing them to rampage, and if you can do that early in the game whilst they are still amongst their own troops it can do a phenomenal amount of Damage. Usign Trebuchet to cause a Stampede has the big advantage of range.

Heavy Infantry doesn't work well against Pachyderms, Pike and long spear sort of work but not as well as you might expect. Javelins though can do for them at short range.

One of my favourit units is Flagellants. Very, very cheap units you can recruit on a Crusade. Used in open order they will eventually kill Elephants, or at the very least will tie them up for a few minutes savign your better troops.

Frankly Elephants, Rocket Artillery and Dismounted Lancers that work at Spearmen annoy me. The basic Timurid Army of superb Cavalry and Foot Archers is already very strong, and doesn't need the help.

Fighting Timurids or Mongols head on in Battle can work, but plan B is to use agents against them to weaken their Leadership, spread your Religion, and destroy Timurid Buildings by Arson.

Next to Plague, the OP'd Armies of the New World, and Mongols, well Timurids are my least favourite thing in the game.