Why is the Umayyad Caliphate faction not included?

[Grandmaster Diabeticus]

This is simply question of curiosity.

Why did they not include the Umayyad Caliphate faction? The Umayyad Caliphate was the largest empire in the history of mankind up until their empire , one of the most powerful and very influencial and of course perfectly involved in the medieval times. So why is it not there? Instead there are the Moors and Egypt (Fatimid Caliphate) both of which are great to have and interesting but are much less know, less powerful, less influencial. I think they were also were asimilated/fractionated from the larger Caliphates. These 2 factions seem like DLC that would come after Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphate.

Either the developers just happned to miss the largest empire at that time, which is impossible. Or there is a reason that the Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphates were not selected while other less know factions were, due to reasons i'm not aware of. (Also i've only played the MP with friends so far)

Not trying to make a "thing" or "say" something or accuse anything, just trying to understand. Also i am definitely not a history buff ( i wiki-ed this "knowledge") , i was just sad to not see the Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphates and suprised to see the Moors and Fatimids instead (both of which are great too i really like them)

Thanks for your time mates! :D

[Gunther von Rittersburg]

Originally posted by One Champion:

This is simply question of curiosity.

Why did they not include the Umayyad Caliphate faction? The Umayyad Caliphate was the largest empire in the history of mankind up until their empire , one of the most powerful and very influencial and of course perfectly involved in the medieval times. So why is it not there? Instead there are the Moors and Egypt (Fatimid Caliphate) both of which are great to have and interesting but are much less know, less powerful, less influencial. I think they were also were asimilated/fractionated from the larger Caliphates. These 2 factions seem like DLC that would come after Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphate.

Either the developers just happned to miss the largest empire at that time, which is impossible. Or there is a reason that the Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphates were not selected while other less know factions were, due to reasons i'm not aware of. (Also i've only played the MP with friends so far)

Not trying to make a "thing" or "say" something or accuse anything, just trying to understand. Also i am definitely not a history buff ( i wiki-ed this "knowledge") , i was just sad to not see the Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphates and suprised to see the Moors and Fatimids instead (both of which are great too i really like them)

Thanks for your time mates! :D

The Moores are the remnant of the Umayyad Caliphate. Historically, the Umayyad Caliphate existed during the fifth and sixth century, while M2:TW takes place a few centuries later on. The starting date in campaign is 1080. The Caliphate expanded in southern France somewhere in the early 700's while a famous battle would ultimately drive the Umayyad's out of France in the 740's, I think it was.

Also, the Umayyad wasn't as powerful of an Empire. Maybe the strongest Muslim Empire to actually threaten Western Europe, and probably the biggest of their time, but I believe its the Roman Empire thats the strongest empire known to man or at least in history.

[Grandmaster Diabeticus]

I think you're missing my point perhaps. If we make a game during the prime of the Roman empire, how can we not include them as a faction? During the late 7th and early 8th the Umayyad Caliphate was the largest empire up until that point in history (fact) fighting many fronts against strong adversaries including the persians and the Eastern Romans and their allies and winning against them.This isnt an arguement about "whos the most powerful" it's about how you can miss the Umayyad Caliphate in its prime that was very very involved and very relevant and perhaps the biggest player at the time (at least land wise) then why are they not included but instead other fringe factions are? The power, significance and scope of the Umayyad Caliphate i'd bet far exceeds that of both the Moors or the Fatimids. (Also forgive my history mistakes, the point still stands though despite my historical inaccuracies, thank you for correcting me where i am wrong) thank you for your time.

[Grandmaster Diabeticus]

You said " Historically, the Umayyad Caliphate existed during the fifth and sixth century" that is incorrect im pretty sure, rather between the "661–750 " qtd - Encyclopædia Britannica

Wait if the campaign starts at 1080, do all of them start at 1080? Also, why do they include units from the early medieval times (5th -10th centuries) I'm sure that they include factions that were from the early medieval time window...right?

[CHE]

Originally posted by One Champion:

You said " Historically, the Umayyad Caliphate existed during the fifth and sixth century" that is incorrect im pretty sure, rather between the "661–750 " qtd - Encyclopædia Britannica

Wait if the campaign starts at 1080, do all of them start at 1080? Also, why do they include units from the early medieval times (5th -10th centuries) I'm sure that they include factions that were from the early medieval time window...right?

No. The Norman Tutorial begins in 1066AD, and the Grand Campaign starts in 1080AD and ends by 1530AD. The factions and units are all ones which existed in that time period, as major powers or powers which became major powers between 1080AD and 1530AD. Other factions are only in the game as part of the "Rebels".

There are mods which add other factions, e.g. Stainless Steel and Broken Crescent.

Also, I am sure that future games set in the time period that the Umayyad Caliphate existed will include the Umayyad Caliphate.

[Gunther von Rittersburg]

Originally posted by One Champion:

I think you're missing my point perhaps. If we make a game during the prime of the Roman empire, how can we not include them as a faction? During the late 7th and early 8th the Umayyad Caliphate was the largest empire up until that point in history (fact) fighting many fronts against strong adversaries including the persians and the Eastern Romans and their allies and winning against them.This isnt an arguement about "whos the most powerful" it's about how you can miss the Umayyad Caliphate in its prime that was very very involved and very relevant and perhaps the biggest player at the time (at least land wise) then why are they not included but instead other fringe factions are? The power, significance and scope of the Umayyad Caliphate i'd bet far exceeds that of both the Moors or the Fatimids. (Also forgive my history mistakes, the point still stands though despite my historical inaccuracies, thank you for correcting me where i am wrong) thank you for your time.

Your right. Make a game based upon the Roman Empire, you need to add the Roman Empire faction.
Make a game set later after the height of the Umayyad Empire/post-Umayyad Empire existence, the Umayyad Empire dont make it into the game.

[Dark Angel]

You can rename the Moors by clicking on the name header and retyping it. Happy now?

[Grandmaster Diabeticus]

Oh okay okay, that makes sense now, thank you Jack and CHE, and i'm sorry for my confusion, thanks again! Also, quick noob question which you dont have to answer...there is no vs AI in custom match right? No mods to add AI in custom match by any chance?

[CHE]

Originally posted by Champion Dr. House:

Oh okay okay, that makes sense now, thank you Jack and CHE, and i'm sorry for my confusion, thanks again! Also, quick noob question which you dont have to answer...there is no vs AI in custom match right? No mods to add AI in custom match by any chance?

In Rome Total War, human players can play multiplayer battles with AI players involved, but not in Medieval 2 Total War. I'm unaware of any mods that change that.

[D_loaded]

Originally posted by Champion Dr. House:

This is simply question of curiosity.

Why did they not include the Umayyad Caliphate faction? The Umayyad Caliphate was the largest empire in the history of mankind up until their empire , one of the most powerful and very influencial and of course perfectly involved in the medieval times. So why is it not there? Instead there are the Moors and Egypt (Fatimid Caliphate) both of which are great to have and interesting but are much less know, less powerful, less influencial. I think they were also were asimilated/fractionated from the larger Caliphates. These 2 factions seem like DLC that would come after Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphate.

Either the developers just happned to miss the largest empire at that time, which is impossible. Or there is a reason that the Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphates were not selected while other less know factions were, due to reasons i'm not aware of. (Also i've only played the MP with friends so far)

Not trying to make a "thing" or "say" something or accuse anything, just trying to understand. Also i am definitely not a history buff ( i wiki-ed this "knowledge") , i was just sad to not see the Umayyad or Rashidun Caliphates and suprised to see the Moors and Fatimids instead (both of which are great too i really like them)

Thanks for your time mates! :D

"Largest empire in the histroy of mankind up until thair empire...."

This is incorrect, See Roman Empire, Mongolian Empire, Alexander the Great

[Grandmaster Diabeticus]

@ D_Loaded "This is incorrect, See Roman Empire, Mongolian Empire, Alexander the Great" You are mistaken, I'm pretty sure that i am correct. The Mongolian Empire (started in the 13th century) is larger but came after the The Umayyad Caliphate (7th and 8th century). The Roman empire was not as large as the The Umayyad Caliphate. The Umayyad Caliphate comes in 5th largest in history and the largest at the time of its creation in the late 7th century, and then Macedonian empire comes in 22nd, then the Ottoman empire 23rd and then the Roman empire in 24th place, based on the area of their empire. So it seems you are incorrect.

[Gunther von Rittersburg]

Originally posted by Champion Dr. House:

@ D_Loaded "This is incorrect, See Roman Empire, Mongolian Empire, Alexander the Great" You are mistaken, I'm pretty sure that i am correct. The Mongolian Empire (started in the 13th century) is larger but came after the The Umayyad Caliphate (7th and 8th century). The Roman empire was not as large as the The Umayyad Caliphate. The Umayyad Caliphate comes in 5th largest in history and the largest at the time of its creation in the late 7th century, and then Macedonian empire comes in 22nd, then the Ottoman empire 23rd and then the Roman empire in 24th place, based on the area of their empire. So it seems you are incorrect.

I think the Mongolian, Macedonian Empires were more known for successful battles, and quickly conquering land.
The Roman Empire included (parts?) North Africa, the Holy Lands, modern day France, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Serbia, Hungary, Asia, Asia Minor, and more. Not certain about modern Poland, Russia, Germany, and Scandinavia, as the Roman Empire isn't my specialty.

Also of interest, the Roman Empire set foot on the British Isle, and set up a fort named Londonium-modern day London!

In short, the Roman Empire pretty much laid the foundation for what we consider the Medieval World and the Grand Campaign map for M2:TW

[Lie Chen Zhou]

Kubilai Khan's empire stretches from Russia to South East Asia, so they were not only successful in battles. His grandpa Jenghis is more famous tho
http://www.essential-humanities.net/img/history/his46.jpg

I just went to wikipedia and saw his argument. How the heck Rome is less larger than the Ottoman when Ottoman territory is part of Rome?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
Rome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire
Ottoman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

[Flavius]

@Champion Dr. House Who cares about an Empire which lasted for less than 100 years? Empires without strong institutional foundations let no enduring political and cultural legacy to the world. The Umayyad Empire, with a marked tribal structure dissipated as soon as the capable leaders died and no solid institutions where in place to keep the state in place. The Roman Empire lasted for 1.500 Years, the Chinese Empire lasted (with interruptions) also over 1.000 years, if not longer than its Roman counterpart.
And yeah, really the Mongol Empire was the largest in terms of square km, though it also lacked institutional innovation.
I mean, the Umayyad hordes killed their way through North-Africa, Spain and Southern Spain, as the Mongols did in the Middle East and in the today's Turkey five centuries later, only to dissapear a few decades later like the smoke in the air. Is this a measure of greatness?

[Buldor]

601-700 (7th century) and 701-800 (8th century). This game starts at the 11th Century. The turks are a precursor to the Ottoman Dynasty if I remember correctly. Yes this mentioned Dynasty empire is amongst the largest, but not surpassing Mongols, Spanish, Russian and British empires. Simply put your empire did not exist in this era where only a remnant of the Romans still exist. It had already died out, and became what is in this game known as the Moors.

Also as mentioned, smaller empires were still stronger and the greatness of an empire can't be defined by size alone or otherwise all hail to the British.

Perhaps argue this point for Atilla: TOTAL WAR. If they continue to further expand the timeframe, you may very well see them.

[CampyMcLurkstein]

Originally posted by Dark Angel:

You can rename the Moors by clicking on the name header and retyping it. Happy now?

After two years of being a off and on again Med 2 addict, i finally saw Legend of TW do this in one of his videos. I HAD NO IDEA it was there! I love these little hidden features of older games :P Nowadays that would a DLC option lol.