Do you think Medieval 2 is actually the 2nd most played Total war Game?

[ryansDeViL]

This is a ♥♥♥♥ post btw.

But honestly, I'm a weirdo and play Medieval on my phone / Ipad as well as PC and after the fuss about Pharaoh i've been looking into all of the games player-counts. And well it's no surprise that Medieval 2 on steam is popular, but on the android alone there's usually around 500 players that log in daily. Just for android. Idk how to view player count for iOS but i'm sure it's probably more popular on the bigger screens.

Anyways, I think it's crazy how Medieval 2 continues to stand the test of time

[Instigator]

It's a high quality game, and sadly it's very true to say "they just don't make them like they used to" in the case of Total War games.

For a lot of us, M2 is the last of the saga of excellent TW games before they started shifting to lighter mechanics focused on mass appeal/casual gameplay.

That's not to say there aren't redeeming things about later titles, but I think for many long-time fans, M2 was the peak of the series.

[OldMemes.biz]

I am of the mind that to this day, not only is M2TW every bit as popular as some claim, but is also much more popular than current CA and Sega will ever officially acknowledge; and will actively downplay its popularity. Because we are not their audience anymore, nor do they want us to be their audience anymore.

[ryansDeViL]

Originally posted by OldMemes.biz:

I am of the mind that to this day, not only is M2TW every bit as popular as some claim, but is also much more popular than current CA and Sega will ever officially acknowledge; and will actively downplay its popularity. Because we are not their audience anymore, nor do they want us to be their audience anymore.

I was actually thinking this earlier, myself. But they must pay very close attention to the numbers. And just at first glance anyone can see that Medieval 2 is still a popular game.

But like you said, I don't think they really care about the fanbase anymore and when you look at Warhammer you can kind of see this. They made things much more basic and streamlined to appeal to new people coming into the series. Which is all well and good and all, but it makes it so the old time players feel like they are being given 2 things while 5 more are being taken away.

Like i'm getting back into Medieval 2, and after playing a lot of the newer games, the only things i really miss are QoL features like Alt-drag and stuff. Free cam - I found a mod for so that's been fixed, making Medieval 2 that much better.
If Medieval 2 could just get more modernized i'd be one happy gamer

[Gigantus]

Med2 is the last in the series that is fully moddable, in fact the EOP project is enhancing the modding ability by removing\circumventing caps and limits through memory editing - opening totally new avenues.

The company stopped caring about M2 years ago as simply churning out sagas and variations of the same game engine is simply more lucrative.
Never mind dumbing down the strategic side and having whole sale hero abilities.

[OldMemes.biz]

Originally posted by Gigantus:

Med2 is the last in the series that is fully moddable, in fact the EOP project is enhancing the modding ability by removing\circumventing caps and limits through memory editing - opening totally new avenues.

The company stopped caring about M2 years ago as simply churning out sagas and variations of the same game engine is simply more lucrative.
Never mind dumbing down the strategic side and having whole sale hero abilities.

Very good points there.

[Gigantus]

I have my days....

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Instigator:

It's a high quality game, and sadly it's very true to say "they just don't make them like they used to" in the case of Total War games.

For a lot of us, M2 is the last of the saga of excellent TW games before they started shifting to lighter mechanics focused on mass appeal/casual gameplay.

That's not to say there aren't redeeming things about later titles, but I think for many long-time fans, M2 was the peak of the series.

M2 was a groundbreaking game back then and still holds up decently even considering todays standards (if heavily modded), but it didn't age well at all.

Agents are done poorly.
Religion is very, very barebones.
AI has huge pathing issues in sieges.
Javelins are done extremely poorly unless you use overhauls like Stainless Steel.
Melee is super clunky and soldiers move extremely sluggish for no reason, as if in permanent slow mo.
Gap closing after melee breaks out is nonexistent to such a degree, that you can shoot while in melee with ease, especially on walls, because the enemy soldiers are incapable of closing the gap and deliver melee damage.
AI on the campaign map is utter garbage. The worst in the series after Rome 1 by a huge margin.

Just to name a couple glaring problems, that the game has.

If you only take native/vanilla, then I agree on your statement, but if mods come into consideration, Rome 2 and Shogun 2 surpass Med 2 so hard, it's not even a contest, due to vastly superior basic mechanics. Even Empire is overall an upgrade, especially with Napoleon.

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by ryansDeViL:

This is a ♥♥♥♥ post btw.

But honestly, I'm a weirdo and play Medieval on my phone / Ipad as well as PC and after the fuss about Pharaoh i've been looking into all of the games player-counts. And well it's no surprise that Medieval 2 on steam is popular, but on the android alone there's usually around 500 players that log in daily. Just for android. Idk how to view player count for iOS but i'm sure it's probably more popular on the bigger screens.

Anyways, I think it's crazy how Medieval 2 continues to stand the test of time

It's the last finished on launch and fully mod-able game in the series, it's one of the easiest to run which increases the number of potential devices and it is in a niche that people badly want to itch and it gets to reign supreme over it by virtue of no one else having the money, skill or time to compete with it. Modders for total war Rome and Attila are really the only modern competition for the game and those players are accounted for on steamDB so it really gets to sit comfortably at the top knowing that only CA can ever dethrone it and they likely never will due to the amount of effort that would take and even if they did, Med 2 would still have strong player numbers, likely closer to the 2k range rather than nearly 4k but still far better than the saga titles.

Originally posted by Gigantus:

I have my days....

365 of them.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by ryansDeViL:

Originally posted by OldMemes.biz:

I am of the mind that to this day, not only is M2TW every bit as popular as some claim, but is also much more popular than current CA and Sega will ever officially acknowledge; and will actively downplay its popularity. Because we are not their audience anymore, nor do they want us to be their audience anymore.

I was actually thinking this earlier, myself. But they must pay very close attention to the numbers. And just at first glance anyone can see that Medieval 2 is still a popular game.

But like you said, I don't think they really care about the fanbase anymore and when you look at Warhammer you can kind of see this. They made things much more basic and streamlined to appeal to new people coming into the series. Which is all well and good and all, but it makes it so the old time players feel like they are being given 2 things while 5 more are being taken away.

Like i'm getting back into Medieval 2, and after playing a lot of the newer games, the only things i really miss are QoL features like Alt-drag and stuff. Free cam - I found a mod for so that's been fixed, making Medieval 2 that much better.
If Medieval 2 could just get more modernized i'd be one happy gamer

Don't need a mod for free cam. You can activate it in settings.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Originally posted by Instigator:

It's a high quality game, and sadly it's very true to say "they just don't make them like they used to" in the case of Total War games.

For a lot of us, M2 is the last of the saga of excellent TW games before they started shifting to lighter mechanics focused on mass appeal/casual gameplay.

That's not to say there aren't redeeming things about later titles, but I think for many long-time fans, M2 was the peak of the series.

M2 was a groundbreaking game back then and still holds up decently even considering todays standards (if heavily modded), but it didn't age well at all.

Agents are done poorly.
Religion is very, very barebones.
AI has huge pathing issues in sieges.
Javelins are done extremely poorly unless you use overhauls like Stainless Steel.
Melee is super clunky and soldiers move extremely sluggish for no reason, as if in permanent slow mo.
Gap closing after melee breaks out is nonexistent to such a degree, that you can shoot while in melee with ease, especially on walls, because the enemy soldiers are incapable of closing the gap and deliver melee damage.
AI on the campaign map is utter garbage. The worst in the series after Rome 1 by a huge margin.

Just to name a couple glaring problems, that the game has.

If you only take native/vanilla, then I agree on your statement, but if mods come into consideration, Rome 2 and Shogun 2 surpass Med 2 so hard, it's not even a contest, due to vastly superior basic mechanics. Even Empire is overall an upgrade, especially with Napoleon.

Have to disagree with you, mainly because Rome 2 and Shogun 2 changed the mechanics of the game so much. Doesn't matter how you mod it, it is like putting a lipstick on a pig.

[FizzyElf]

Shogun 2 is by far the best game to come out of the new engine (the warhammer titles being very enjoyable but a giant mess at the same time.) and shows off everything the engine has to offer and does it well with the best expansion pack since Med 2 to boot, further enhancing the experience. But the modding scene is awful for shogun 2, it's a little better for Rome and Attila (especially given they actually have a dedicated modding community) but neither of them or any of the others are fully unrestricted when it comes to modding and the modding scene is hard to get into for them whereas med 2 can be modded by a five year old and a couple of note pad files, making it not only easier but far more free to play around with and really make the game function the exact way you want it to, CA be damned.

[ryansDeViL]

I've just downloaded the Divide and Conquer mod today for Medieval 2, and if my 8 year old self heard about this, oh i'd probably be a different man right now.

The modding capabilities in Medieval 2 are just insane. I.N.S.A.N.E. These modders literally remade the entire game from the ground up essentially, with new models, new map, new campaign, new features.

I'm actually amazed at the quality considering it's just a free mod. Anyways, i'll see you later, i've got some orcs to slay :)

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by ryansDeViL:

I've just downloaded the Divide and Conquer mod today for Medieval 2, and if my 8 year old self heard about this, oh i'd probably be a different man right now.

The modding capabilities in Medieval 2 are just insane. I.N.S.A.N.E. These modders literally remade the entire game from the ground up essentially, with new models, new map, new campaign, new features.

I'm actually amazed at the quality considering it's just a free mod. Anyways, i'll see you later, i've got some orcs to slay :)

Lol

[solidap]

TW has been around long before Steam has. I'd say overall Rome 1 is probably the most played TW. Second place would be more difficult to guess. Medieval 2 was and is quite popular, but so was/is Rome 2. And on the multiplayer side it might be Shogun 2, setting aside the Warhammer games

[easytarget]

Game development when done well is a creative enterprise. As such I don't think you can entirely plan how well it will turn out. You do your best as a team and see what comes out of the oven. In CA's early days there was a passion for what they were cooking.

I'd argue that time passed awhile back, everyone can argue where the point was but it's hard to make the case CA is at their best right now.

What they decide to do next after the fiasco of Hyenas and repeated lukewarm receptions to titles like Troy and Pharaoh with the warhammer cash cow having run it's course is the existential question they very much need to answer.