This game is really hard

[scrotal warrior]

I really like this game. It's way better than my previous total war experience, when I played Total War: Rome 2. Eliminating factions in that game felt like pushing toddlers down. I was happy to find that Medieval 2: Total War actually offered a challenge. So I failed pretty hard on my first try but I am trying again and I have done wayyyyy better. But, I have some problems. EVERYONE HATES ME. AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY! So, it all started when the Holy Roman ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ declared war on me and I defended myself. After some of this the pope got mad at us and told us to cut the ♥♥♥♥. So we did, for 7 turns. Then we went back to fighting. The Holy Roman Empire made friends with tons of peopel and so did I. They buddied up with England, Spain, Milan, and Denmark. I buddied up with Portugal, The Papal States, and Scotland. The problem is, the Holy Roman Empire and its cronies want me dead, and they won't stop constantly attacking. I can defend, but there's no way in hell I can go on an offensive to try and increase my power. The Mongol ♥♥♥♥♥ invaded so who knows when they'll show up and take over everything. My allies have no interest in helping me. As a matter of fact, they started fighting each other. Twice. Or at least I think it was twice. So eventually Portugal and Scotland stopped slapping each other, but porbably won't give me any help. I am not making much money because I have to support massive armys. To make matters worse, everytime I win a battle, I have the options to ransom, execute, or one other that I can't remember, which is probably release, which is a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dumb idea. So after each battle, I try and ransom the captured troops. 7/10 times, my enemy won't pay the ransom and for some reason I'm forced to execute them. This makes everyone hate me more, and there's litteraly nothing I can do about it. Someone, please, help, this has gotten way out of hand. I've tried to propose peace a bunch of times but they won't make peace. The pope loves the invading bastards aproximately as much as he loves me, which sucks. I need advice.

[hagakuremoi]

what difficulty settings are you using?

[scrotal warrior]

Originally posted by hagakuremoi:

what difficulty settings are you using?

Normal, and I'm playing as France.

[Inardesco]

There are several reasons why they hate you, which you can't see in Medieval 2, but can see in Rome 2. The Rome 2 diplomacy shows more information.

Ok, so...new to Medieval 2, get rekt!

A couple of starterpoints;
* Diplomacy relies on your faction reputation; Despicable > Deceitful > Very Untrustworthy > Untrustworthy > Dubious > Mixed > Reliable > Very Reliable > Trustworthy > Very trustworthy > Immaculate

As you can probably figure out, despicable is bad, immaculate is good. All factions start on Mixed and you should, from the get go, figure out which way to go. When you aim for despicable, you go for dread characters, exterminate captured cities, use assasins, kill prisoners, don't follow on diplomatic treaties. When you aim for immaculate (most difficult to get!) you go for chivalry characters, occupy, don't use assasins, release prisoners and abide to treaties. Knowing what you're reputation is and what you can get out of it is a key to diplomacy.

Well then, they still hate me, even when I'm trustworthy! Did you take territory that belonged to them? Do you have a war with their allies/allied with their enemies, do you trade with their enemies and all that is explained in Rome 2 but not in Medieval 2.

Next to that; never do business with the Holy Roman Empire, that's a lost cause and you'll end up at war with them even with good relations. It's just the Holy Roman Empire, they tend to do that sort of ♥♥♥♥.

As for the Pope, money usually makes him like you, building cathedrals and large cathedrals and having plenty of priests will make him a happy little bugger. Consequently, if one of your cardinals get elected as Pope or you vote for the Pope, he'll like you a bit more. Next to that, you could always ignore the hat and kill everything, be prepared for extra disorder if you do so.

The main difference in diplomacy between Rome 2 and Medieval 2, is that in Medieval 2, your longstanding allies and tradepartners will stab you in the back as soon as they see an opening. Rome 2 AI feels passive and boring compared to the Medieval 2 AI and didn't backstab.

All in all, it takes a few tries but it'll come with enough killing and conquering.

[scrotal warrior]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

There are several reasons why they hate you, which you can't see in Medieval 2, but can see in Rome 2. The Rome 2 diplomacy shows more information.

Ok, so...new to Medieval 2, get rekt!

A couple of starterpoints;
* Diplomacy relies on your faction reputation; Despicable > Deceitful > Very Untrustworthy > Untrustworthy > Dubious > Mixed > Reliable > Very Reliable > Trustworthy > Very trustworthy > Immaculate

As you can probably figure out, despicable is bad, immaculate is good. All factions start on Mixed and you should, from the get go, figure out which way to go. When you aim for despicable, you go for dread characters, exterminate captured cities, use assasins, kill prisoners, don't follow on diplomatic treaties. When you aim for immaculate (most difficult to get!) you go for chivalry characters, occupy, don't use assasins, release prisoners and abide to treaties. Knowing what you're reputation is and what you can get out of it is a key to diplomacy.

Well then, they still hate me, even when I'm trustworthy! Did you take territory that belonged to them? Do you have a war with their allies/allied with their enemies, do you trade with their enemies and all that is explained in Rome 2 but not in Medieval 2.

Next to that; never do business with the Holy Roman Empire, that's a lost cause and you'll end up at war with them even with good relations. It's just the Holy Roman Empire, they tend to do that sort of ♥♥♥♥.

As for the Pope, money usually makes him like you, building cathedrals and large cathedrals and having plenty of priests will make him a happy little bugger. Consequently, if one of your cardinals get elected as Pope or you vote for the Pope, he'll like you a bit more. Next to that, you could always ignore the hat and kill everything, be prepared for extra disorder if you do so.

The main difference in diplomacy between Rome 2 and Medieval 2, is that in Medieval 2, your longstanding allies and tradepartners will stab you in the back as soon as they see an opening. Rome 2 AI feels passive and boring compared to the Medieval 2 AI and didn't backstab.

All in all, it takes a few tries but it'll come with enough killing and conquering.

I have taken some territory, but I didn't really have any other options since they attacked me and wouldn't accept peace.

[Dark Angel]

Diplomacy in M2TW is the hardest part to master, even 'good players' find it tough and misunderstand it sometimes. There several very subtle factors built into it. I'm not going to strip them down for you, but will instead give you some clues to help you develop and enjoy your games.

First of all, if you are aggressive towards other factions, this will affect your reputation.

Secondly there is a natural bias built in, so be aware of which factions dislike others and will tend towards animosity. For example, Venice are typically a treacherous ally to Milan.

Thirdly, the size of your garrisons and defensive forces affect how neighbours percieve you, as does your relative wealth. So if you have a lot of money and a weak garrison, you will be attacked by opportunist factions.

Fourthly, the type of Monarch and their traits and relative political ability make a difference as do the skill of your diplomats. Training each will help you improve your political abilities.

Fifthly, camping in another factions lands will adversely affect relationships unless you have their permission to do so. Some factions will deliberately do this to deteriorate the relationship.

Sixly, it's harder to gain reputation than to lose it. It's always best to select two or three strong allies before you decide to go to war (when alliances are strongest).

Seventhly, breaking alliance will destroy your reputation, so try to make diplomatic changes using diplomats. Betrayal destroys your reputation.

Eigthly. Papal standing and favour (in Catholic factions) has relevance. Building churches of stature will improve and repair this reputation. If you Excommunicated, you will be 'open season' to other nations and this in turn will destroy your diplomatic reputation.

Many players make the mistake of not understanding other factions natural bias and war aims and not allowing their ally to gain it's own objectives, ususally they complain that an ally is next to useless or betrays them. I have not found this to be the case with properly treated allies although it is true they will not generally 'march to the sound of the guns' they can make a good dissuasion to other factions attacking you, especially early on before you develop an 'Attila the Conquorer' mentality.

Bear in mind that political alliances change and you should monitor who your allies are also allied with and who they are not, this additional dimension directly affects your relationship with an ally, since if they at war with someone you try to befriend, they won't likely stay your friend for long!

Also the duration of an alliance will strengthen it, so long-term reliable relationships should be valued over short-termism.

Finally, it's better NOT to extend your political sphere too far afield and engage too many other nations unless they come to you, If you do, you will find that political reactions are triggered which many not be to your advantage, so keep your relations focused as you evolve and you should attract less attention and thereby trouble.

I think that's about it as a guide.

M2TW includes many features that are not written down in a manual or overtly advertised, which makes it the very best of the series.

Many players will say it's just poorly designed, it is not. It's just poorly played generally. The only weakness is in the A/I (especially the campaign A/I), Rebels are not 'active'; A/I factions don't have much variety of action or dilomacy. It's better in Kingdoms and better still in game mods but the game works best in Play by Mail with real opponents and REAL politics. Then it gets really interesting....

Listen to the tone of a discussion when an Ambassador talks, it indicates how favourable they are. Learn how to use good negotiating techniques and strategies.

You'll be wondering what all the fuss is about once you've been playing the game a while.

I hope this helps, enjoy the game!

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Hehe, that's why TATW & submods have a script that means that if you're allied, you can only declare war on that faction using a diplomat...

... which the AI never does...

... so you actually get meaningful alliances like Gondor & Rohan :P

[scrotal warrior]

Originally posted by Dark Angel:

Diplomacy in M2TW is the hardest part to master, even 'good players' find it tough and misunderstand it sometimes. There several very subtle factors built into it. I'm not going to strip them down for you, but will instead give you some clues to help you develop and enjoy your games.

First of all, if you are aggressive towards other factions, this will affect your reputation.

Secondly there is a natural bias built in, so be aware of which factions dislike others and will tend towards animosity. For example, Venice are typically a treacherous ally to Milan.

Thirdly, the size of your garrisons and defensive forces affect how neighbours percieve you, as does your relative wealth. So if you have a lot of money and a weak garrison, you will be attacked by opportunist factions.

Fourthly, the type of Monarch and their traits and relative political ability make a difference as do the skill of your diplomats. Training each will help you improve your political abilities.

Fifthly, camping in another factions lands will adversely affect relationships unless you have their permission to do so. Some factions will deliberately do this to deteriorate the relationship.

Sixly, it's harder to gain reputation than to lose it. It's always best to select two or three strong allies before you decide to go to way (when alliances are strongest).

Seventhly, breaking alliance will destroy your reputation, so try to make diplomatic changes using diplomats. Betrayal destroys your reputation.

Eigthly. Papal standing and favour (in Catholic factions) has relevance. Building churches of stature will improve and repair this reputation. If you Excommunicated, you will be 'open season' to other nations and this in turn will destroy your diplomatic reputation.

Many players make the mistake of not understanding other factions natural bias and war aims and not allowing their ally to gain it's own objectives, ususally they complain that an ally is next to useless or betrays them. I have not found this to be the case with properly treated allies although it is true they will not generally 'march to the sound of the guns' they can make a good dissuasion to other factions attacking you, especially early on before you develop an 'Attila the Conquorer' mentality.

Bear in mind that political alliances change and you should monitor who your allies are also allied with and who they are not, this additional dimension directly affects your relationship with an ally, since if they at war with someone you try to befriend, they won't likely stay your friend for long!

Also the duration of an alliance will strenthen it, so long-term reliable relationships should be valued over short-termism.

Finally, it's better NOT to extend your political sphere too far afield and engage too many other nations unless they come to you, If you do, you will find that political reactions are triggered which many not be to your advantage, so keep your relations focused as you evolve and you should attract less attention and thereby trouble.

I think that's about it as a guide.

M2TW includes many features that are not written down in a manual or overtly advertised, which makes it the very best of the series.

Many players will say it's just poorly designed, it is not. It's just poorly played generally. The only weakness is in the A/I (especially the campaign A/I), Rebels are not 'active'; A/I factions don't have much variety of action. It's better in Kingdoms and better still in game mods but the game works best in Play by Mail with real opponents and REAL politics. Then it gets really interesting....

You'll be wondering what all the fuss is about once you've been playing the game a while.

I hope this helps, enjoy the game!

:eagle:

Here's some good news: Both The Holy Roman Empire and Spain have been excomunicated. Denmark (which is now at war with me) got excomunicated but recently got forgiven by the pope. I've taken another town and things really seem to be going my way. The pope likes me a lot and I'm building lots of churches.

[CHE]

Originally posted by The Spaghetti King:

Originally posted by Dark Angel:

Diplomacy in M2TW is the hardest part to master, even 'good players' find it tough and misunderstand it sometimes. There several very subtle factors built into it. I'm not going to strip them down for you, but will instead give you some clues to help you develop and enjoy your games.

First of all, if you are aggressive towards other factions, this will affect your reputation.

Secondly there is a natural bias built in, so be aware of which factions dislike others and will tend towards animosity. For example, Venice are typically a treacherous ally to Milan.

Thirdly, the size of your garrisons and defensive forces affect how neighbours percieve you, as does your relative wealth. So if you have a lot of money and a weak garrison, you will be attacked by opportunist factions.

Fourthly, the type of Monarch and their traits and relative political ability make a difference as do the skill of your diplomats. Training each will help you improve your political abilities.

Fifthly, camping in another factions lands will adversely affect relationships unless you have their permission to do so. Some factions will deliberately do this to deteriorate the relationship.

Sixly, it's harder to gain reputation than to lose it. It's always best to select two or three strong allies before you decide to go to way (when alliances are strongest).

Seventhly, breaking alliance will destroy your reputation, so try to make diplomatic changes using diplomats. Betrayal destroys your reputation.

Eigthly. Papal standing and favour (in Catholic factions) has relevance. Building churches of stature will improve and repair this reputation. If you Excommunicated, you will be 'open season' to other nations and this in turn will destroy your diplomatic reputation.

Many players make the mistake of not understanding other factions natural bias and war aims and not allowing their ally to gain it's own objectives, ususally they complain that an ally is next to useless or betrays them. I have not found this to be the case with properly treated allies although it is true they will not generally 'march to the sound of the guns' they can make a good dissuasion to other factions attacking you, especially early on before you develop an 'Attila the Conquorer' mentality.

Bear in mind that political alliances change and you should monitor who your allies are also allied with and who they are not, this additional dimension directly affects your relationship with an ally, since if they at war with someone you try to befriend, they won't likely stay your friend for long!

Also the duration of an alliance will strenthen it, so long-term reliable relationships should be valued over short-termism.

Finally, it's better NOT to extend your political sphere too far afield and engage too many other nations unless they come to you, If you do, you will find that political reactions are triggered which many not be to your advantage, so keep your relations focused as you evolve and you should attract less attention and thereby trouble.

I think that's about it as a guide.

M2TW includes many features that are not written down in a manual or overtly advertised, which makes it the very best of the series.

Many players will say it's just poorly designed, it is not. It's just poorly played generally. The only weakness is in the A/I (especially the campaign A/I), Rebels are not 'active'; A/I factions don't have much variety of action. It's better in Kingdoms and better still in game mods but the game works best in Play by Mail with real opponents and REAL politics. Then it gets really interesting....

You'll be wondering what all the fuss is about once you've been playing the game a while.

I hope this helps, enjoy the game!

:eagle:

Here's some good news: Both The Holy Roman Empire and Spain have been excomunicated. Denmark (which is now at war with me) got excomunicated but recently got forgiven by the pope. I've taken another town and things really seem to be going my way. The pope likes me a lot and I'm building lots of churches.

Well done, S.K.!

If you want advice on economics, military management and/or character traits and retinue, please say.

[MattKingCole]

If the Holy Roman Empire is escommunicated, and the Pope is your buddy, ask him to call a crusade to an HRE city or castle. I was playing England, and I was at war with France, Spain, Portugal, and maybe someone else, but I petitioned for a crusade and then everyone started declaring war on France. The AI armies were not super useful against the French, but the crusade broke France's alliances. I used the time to weaken or destroy my enemies, and then conquered France.

[CHE]

Originally posted by mttcole1:

If the Holy Roman Empire is escommunicated, and the Pope is your buddy, ask him to call a crusade to an HRE city or castle. I was playing England, and I was at war with France, Spain, Portugal, and maybe someone else, but I petitioned for a crusade and then everyone started declaring war on France. The AI armies were not super useful against the French, but the crusade broke France's alliances. I used the time to weaken or destroy my enemies, and then conquered France.

Well done.

[scrotal warrior]

Originally posted by CHE:

Originally posted by The Spaghetti King:

Here's some good news: Both The Holy Roman Empire and Spain have been excomunicated. Denmark (which is now at war with me) got excomunicated but recently got forgiven by the pope. I've taken another town and things really seem to be going my way. The pope likes me a lot and I'm building lots of churches.

Well done, S.K.!

If you want advice on economics, military management and/or character traits and retinue, please say.

I'll take all the advice I can get!

[scrotal warrior]

Originally posted by mttcole1:

If the Holy Roman Empire is escommunicated, and the Pope is your buddy, ask him to call a crusade to an HRE city or castle. I was playing England, and I was at war with France, Spain, Portugal, and maybe someone else, but I petitioned for a crusade and then everyone started declaring war on France. The AI armies were not super useful against the French, but the crusade broke France's alliances. I used the time to weaken or destroy my enemies, and then conquered France.

The Pope is happy with me, but not as much as he could be. I'll keep building churches and chappels, and I'll hire some more priests.

[alation13]

There is a thread called "English Long Campaign is too hard" on page 2 or three of these forums maybe later in a few days time. It should give you some great ideas on how to improve your gameplay ability. In may ways the french and english campaigns are similar so it should really help.

[t0m]

ive played many hours in the first total war, only got hold of the second when i bought the recent humble bundle, i knew what i was getting in for with this game and the fact that the game is a great challenge is great to me, i can adjust it to make it tough but not so tough that its not enjoyable, im glad i got the game and i wish id had it sooner. i find that the diplomacy is really a difficult thing to get and it takes time patience and practise to get it right but hey enjoy the game and have fun with it :)

[Cpt. Nemo]

Originally posted by Tom|ZBT|:

ive played many hours in the first total war, only got hold of the second when i bought the recent humble bundle

Shogun and Medieval 1?