Pikemen problems

[ForensicNitro]

Ive been playing medieval 2 for a while now, its one of my favourite total war second to shogun but theres some things i still dont reall get about it. Whenever i recruit pikemen for defence in the campaign il set them up to defend the gate but once melee happens they break formation and walk into the enemy same thing goes with spear men in shieldtron formation. I dont know if i need to put them in guard mode or somethig but is there anyway to keep them from charging

[Damavikoff]

guard mode

[harutomo-wawa]

Pikemen have a schizophrenic interpretation of the word "formation." Other than setting them to gaurd mode like Dama said, it just is another glitch like the "two-handed glitch" which ruined most mile eastern factions.

[CHE]

Originally posted by Damavikoff:

guard mode

And if you've been selecting them and clicking to "attack" enemy units, then I suggest you don't do that, and instead leave them in position.

[Damavikoff]

Originally posted by ForensicNitro:

Whenever i recruit pikemen for defence in the campaign il set them up to defend the gate but once melee happens they break formation and walk into the enemy same thing goes with spear men in shieldtron formation.

Originally posted by CHE:

And if you've been selecting them and clicking to "attack" enemy units, then I suggest you don't do that, and instead leave them in position.

?

[Frederick V]

I have my pikemen in guard fomation and didn't give them an order yet they draw swords as soon as they engage the enemy.

[Red Spot]

And we have a whiner ... err .. winner ... necro'ed a 4 year old topic .. bravo!

[warringworld]

you should post a video in Steam and maybe then it's clearer to see what's going wrong

[Frederick V]

I'm saying it right now.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Frederick 5:

I have my pikemen in guard fomation and didn't give them an order yet they draw swords as soon as they engage the enemy.

This was never fixed or patched, sadly. Pikes tend to work better in Kingdoms, but still inherently broken.

There is a user workaround though...so good news! XD

The workaround is to layer two or more pike units on top of each other.

So instead of having a single pike unit 6 ranks deep, for example, you put two pike units at 3 ranks deep, on top of each other. So the units look like this when viewed from above:

X = First pike unit man
P = Second pike unit man

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Then you do all the other stuff: Guard mode, pikewall formation, etc.

When you use the workaround, the pikes are simply too dense for enemies to push into, and the result is that they die at a distance instead of triggering the pike men to draw swords.

Another reason that this workaround works, is that the game engine only has the first 3 ranks of pike fight, while the other ranks to their rear remain idle. So when you stretch two pike units to 3 ranks and later them atop one another, you have a single formation where all 6 ranks use their pikes, whereas if you took each unit separately and put them in 6 ranks, 3 of those ranks would be idle and do nothing to the enemy...except break ranks and draw swords :P

The workaround also allows pikes to be more offensive, in that if you turn off Guard mode and pikewall, and give an attack order to the second pike unit, they will push forward, jabbing with their leveled pikes, whilst the first pike unit continues to cover them.

So using the workaround, not only can you create impenetrable pikewalls, but you can attack with pikes and literally roll over enemy units.


The downside to the workaround of course, is it takes much more micro management. Defending gateways, streets, and other chokepoints is easy, however. But to use pikes offensively in a field battle, using the layering technique, takes some finesse and practice.

It works great though, and you can dominate even other players in MP with it when you're used to it. Even the best foot nobles with upgrades will just die on the pike heads of even Militia Pikes. This frees a ton of money then to spend on missiles and the best cav.

So without the workaround pikes suck; with the workaround, a pike based build is the most OP one you can use in MP (save arguably a horse archer based one), especially when combined with gun units.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Red Spot:

And we have a whiner ... err .. winner ... necro'ed a 4 year old topic .. bravo!

Originally posted by warringworld:

you should post a video in Steam and maybe then it's clearer to see what's going wrong

It's a very, very old broken aspect of the game, known to the players since 2006.

CA may have deliberately never fixed it because when you use the workaround to make the pikes work, it is arguably broken the other way, ie. pikes become so op there is literally nothing can stop them, save being shot down by tons of missiles.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Gardai:

Pikemen have a schizophrenic interpretation of the word "formation." Other than setting them to gaurd mode like Dama said, it just is another glitch like the "two-handed glitch" which ruined most mile eastern factions.

This too ^

This is one of the big reasons I always smile when people lionize Med 2 as the best TW, especially when asserting other releases like ToB are broken.

The fact is, a huge part of the Med 2 unit system is simply broken because of these unaddressed bugs. It makes many units, and even entire factional rosters, basically pointless, because upgrading to later type units is an actual downgrade.

Units that should form cores are instead dangerous and cost ineffective to use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5NxBzWKdmY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZadEhrSi_J8

PS: I also laugh when people laud Med 2 for having, "the best unit balance of all the TW titles."

The fact is, the unit balance is non existent. Certain units, and certain factions that have those units, will completely dominate other factions because they simply can't compete in the matchups.

The mercenary system is part of the imbalance too. If you recruit a bunch of Flemish Pikemen and Mercenary Crossbowmen, you can essentially have a 'pike and shot' build early game with any of the European factions, and if you use the pike workaround, you'll just roll over everything. Mongols? Who cares...campaign won by turn 60. If Mongols do show up, just hold with the pikes.

[Inardesco]

Its working as intented though....

The main reason they underperform is because of their secondary weapon to which they switch to when engaged in melee.

Most mods remove the secondary weapon from pikes making them one of, if not, the strongest unit on the battlefield.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Its working as intented though....

The main reason they underperform is because of their secondary weapon to which they switch to when engaged in melee.

Most mods remove the secondary weapon from pikes making them one of, if not, the strongest unit on the battlefield.

As I tried to explain, the root of the problem is that they switch to swords to begin with. The formation is supposed to be a pike hedge.

If it was intended that the pike hedge turns into swordsmen the minute the first rank contacts the enemy, that makes no sense.

Even if it was granted for sake of argument that it made sense for the first rank or two to draw swords, it makes no sense for the entire formation to draw swords at contact.

So who gives a ♥♥♥♥ if it is "working as intended"?

The bottom line, is it makes no sense, intended or not. By default, it's counter intuitve and befuddling, as threads like this show. So at best it's poor implementation and balance, at worst it's just simply a bug that was never fixed.

[Red Spot]

Remove their swords from the correct file, then find they suck even more when their line is broken. There is enough info about it and I am not going into detail about it. Battle-map balance has never been a high priority for this game.

[Mile pro Libertate]

Check these out guys:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s5qRGkUbjhA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ5cjhCPjP8

No need for downloading mods or changing lines of text yourself; just use the layering technique.