Crossbow Fix for Stainless Steel

[Gooseman]

This is a link to the script edit to fix crossbows being bugged and unable to fire at or from battlements in sieges. Must have for Venice and Genoa players.

Credit is to Dekhatres from Total War Center.

If anyone has good script edits to improve gunpowder units please post here.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?682961-Problem-with-Crossbowmen-shooting-from-walls-when-defending-or-is-it

[Gigantus]

They do have an issue with really low negative angles, I am guessing it edits the descr_projectiles file.

[kekm8]

Originally posted by Gigantus:

They do have an issue with really low negative angles, I am guessing it edits the descr_projectiles file.

Wasn't that a real thing though, not a "bug"? If you tilted a crossbow down the bolt would slide out harmlessly before you could fire it

[Red Spot]

They made it so the X-bows can shoot high up and use 'gravity' to hit their target instead of being forced to try to shoot downwards.
And yeah, quite realistic on its own. Archers did the same thing.
WW2 era navies did the same thing ... :)

[Gooseman]

Originally posted by kekm8:

Originally posted by Gigantus:

They do have an issue with really low negative angles, I am guessing it edits the descr_projectiles file.

Wasn't that a real thing though, not a "bug"? If you tilted a crossbow down the bolt would slide out harmlessly before you could fire it

They would have been grooved/latched to prevent that. Crossbows needed to be able to fire at downward angles from battlements. Quite a common scenario in that period. Richard the Lionheart was famously killed by a crossbow fired from behind a parapet. Occasionally they will fire more like archers with this edit but typically they will still fire at a normal crossbow trajectory if possible. This edit just allows them to fire at and from battlements which they cannot do at all in vanilla or SS 6.4 which to me is unacceptable.

[Dskater84]

Originally posted by kekm8:

Originally posted by Gigantus:

They do have an issue with really low negative angles, I am guessing it edits the descr_projectiles file.

Wasn't that a real thing though, not a "bug"? If you tilted a crossbow down the bolt would slide out harmlessly before you could fire it

Leave it to me to revive a 3 years old topic, but to answer your question, the bolt and bow string are around the same diameter, you can just put your finger on the back of the bolt and aim down, the string will just pass under your finger and you will be fine. Later on in history, they did use some bent horn piece to hold the bolt in place.

Now the real issue with aiming down from the parapet comes from the fact that the bow sits horizontally, which makes it much easier for it to hit the wall. I don't want to imagine what a 600lb bow would do if it hits something while unwinding.

[Wizard of Woz]

In case anyone cares, defending from the walls and gate is like the worst way. Move all your troops to the town square. Archers/siege in the middles, infantry blocking all the choke points coming into the town square. You will decimate any army.

[Gigantus]

A gate battle is a bit like a bridge battle, fights on the wall gives a bonus to defenders afaik.
Anything other then infantry is usually a waste in a siege, even if you turtle in the square.

But then one fights against the AI anyhow. Turteling in the square against a human opponent is suicide.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Gigantus:

A gate battle is a bit like a bridge battle, fights on the wall gives a bonus to defenders afaik.
Anything other then infantry is usually a waste in a siege, even if you turtle in the square.

But then one fights against the AI anyhow. Turteling in the square against a human opponent is suicide.

Can't speak to playing another player, something I will never do. I am curious why turtling in the city square would be suicide agaisnt an another player?
Versus the pc, I rarely even lose troops. Just set my archers to flame arrows, by the time most infantry reach my front line they immediately flee with low moral. Cav just dies agasint the stakes. When I try to fight at the gates I tend to get flanked from the troops coming over the walls from ladders and siege towers.

[Gooseman]

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

Originally posted by Gigantus:

A gate battle is a bit like a bridge battle, fights on the wall gives a bonus to defenders afaik.
Anything other then infantry is usually a waste in a siege, even if you turtle in the square.

But then one fights against the AI anyhow. Turteling in the square against a human opponent is suicide.

Can't speak to playing another player, something I will never do. I am curious why turtling in the city square would be suicide agaisnt an another player?
Versus the pc, I rarely even lose troops. Just set my archers to flame arrows, by the time most infantry reach my front line they immediately flee with low moral. Cav just dies agasint the stakes. When I try to fight at the gates I tend to get flanked from the troops coming over the walls from ladders and siege towers.

Because instead of attacking piecemeal and haphazardly a human player would bombard your concentrated troops with missiles and then after they were softened up slowly squeeze them simultaneously from each side. A human player also wouldn't rush their cav into stakes.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Gooseman:

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

Can't speak to playing another player, something I will never do. I am curious why turtling in the city square would be suicide agaisnt an another player?
Versus the pc, I rarely even lose troops. Just set my archers to flame arrows, by the time most infantry reach my front line they immediately flee with low moral. Cav just dies agasint the stakes. When I try to fight at the gates I tend to get flanked from the troops coming over the walls from ladders and siege towers.

Because instead of attacking piecemeal and haphazardly a human player would bombard your concentrated troops with missiles and then after they were softened up slowly squeeze them simultaneously from each side. A human player also wouldn't rush their cav into stakes.

Why would their archer units be able to take out my troops? They have to be in a narrow road area all concentrated for my archers and siege weapons to wipe out.

[Gigantus]

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

Why would their archer units be able to take out my troops? They have to be in a narrow road area all concentrated for my archers and siege weapons to wipe out.

'loose formation' setting is king here for the attacker.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Gigantus:

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

Why would their archer units be able to take out my troops? They have to be in a narrow road area all concentrated for my archers and siege weapons to wipe out.

'loose formation' setting is king here for the attacker.

Loose formation is going to do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when they are in a narrow road way. Also I can set my guys to loose formation also and they have the space to spread out. I kinda feel like you guys have never tried this technique and are dismissing it for some reason.

[Gigantus]

The 'turtle in the plaza' technique works fine against an AI. Have you tried it against a player?

There is no issue to set a missile unit to 'loose' in a street (lengthwise obviously, simply use the mouse drag to a stretched formation (2-3 deep instead of 4-5, depending on unit size) before loosening) and have them merrily targeting units in the plaza, obviously not a road section in direct sight of the plaza. It's why I don't use cross bows in a siege, they just plow their bolts into the houses.

Loose in the plaza works to certain extent if you don't have too many units in the plaza to start with. The attacker has way more place at his disposal to 'loosen up' (or simply tug them in close at walls\houses), eg max 'looseness' as compared to the plaza units, which may even overlap.

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Gigantus:

The 'turtle in the plaza' technique works fine against an AI. Have you tried it against a player?

There is no issue to set a missile unit to 'loose' in a street (lengthwise obviously, simply use the mouse drag to a stretched formation (2-3 deep instead of 4-5, depending on unit size) before loosening) and have them merrily targeting units in the plaza, obviously not a road section in direct sight of the plaza. It's why I don't use cross bows in a siege, they just plow their bolts into the houses.

Loose in the plaza works to certain extent if you don't have too many units in the plaza to start with. The attacker has way more place at his disposal to 'loosen up' (or simply tug them in close at walls\houses), eg max 'looseness' as compared to the plaza units, which may even overlap.

Maybe I will have to try vs a player, because sure you can get that loose formation for 1 or 2 archer units, but my 10 archers and catapult will destroy them in about 20 seconds.

[Gigantus]

Catapult won't have any effect here unless it has line of sight. And there are multiple access avenues to the plaza, sometimes at an angle.

Having an army that is composed of at least 50% archers plus catapults is not a feasible field army, maybe against an AI. Confronted with that make up, knowing that missiles suck in auto resolve (and hence in siege calculations too), I'd simply wait outside until time runs out or you sally.

As I said - your tactic is sound against an AI, not against a player.